Greetings GRASS Users,
A new on-line forum called GRASSnet has been started that will replace
the majordomo mailing list. We have been working with USA-CERL on
just how to replace the mailing list, and have come to the conclusion
that a discussion board would be easier to manage as well as easier for
the
user community. The result is called GRASSnet which you can find at
the address:
http://grassnet.baylor.edu
Check it out and leave us a message. We are not sure sure when CERL
is turing off the majordomo GRASS lists, but they have requested that
we get up and running as soon as possible. This system will also allow
us to respond quickly to any bug reports/suggestions/comments that you
may
have. It is also a great forum for interaction. Currently there are
forums for Users, Developers, Installation Tips/Tricks, and Research.
We are
planning to further expand this service over the next several weeks, so
any
suggestions and comments you have are more than welcome.
In closing, our team would like to thank everyone for their support!
Bruce Byars
Senior Research Scientist
GRASS Development Team
CAGSR - Baylor University
On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:00:22PM -0500, Bruce Byars wrote:
A new on-line forum called GRASSnet has been started that will replace
the majordomo mailing list. We have been working with USA-CERL on
just how to replace the mailing list, and have come to the conclusion
that a discussion board would be easier to manage as well as easier for
the user community.
Why did you come to that conclusion?
Mailinglists still are the best choice for this kind of interaction.
MUA (mail user agents) have been developed for years and no web
interface can replace the power of this tools.
If you wanted an additional web interface, that would be very good, too.
Just replacing the mailinglists with a webbased discussion interface
will be more usefull in some respects and less usefull in other
respects, but overall you will loose usability over a mailinglists
with webarchive.
(Just like the GNU Mailman Software: http://www.list.org/ )
The result is called GRASSnet which you can find at
the address:
http://grassnet.baylor.edu
Sorry, it doesn't look very nice and my MUA gives me much more Power.
Check it out and leave us a message. We are not sure sure when CERL
is turing off the majordomo GRASS lists, but they have requested that
we get up and running as soon as possible. This system will also allow
us to respond quickly to any bug reports/suggestions/comments that you
may have. It is also a great forum for interaction. Currently there are
forums for Users, Developers, Installation Tips/Tricks, and Research.
We are planning to further expand this service over the next several
weeks, so any suggestions and comments you have are more than welcome.
Well I don't think it will be possible replace mailinglists.
Other free software developments also doesn't show that trend.
Slashdot e.g. is very successful for general, but almost everything
in the big projects GNOME (www.gnome.org) and Debian (www.debian.org)
happens in mailinglists. (Except for tracking and archiving bugs, which
is no interaction.)
Regards,
Bernhard
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
Mailinglists still are the best choice for this kind of interaction.
MUA (mail user agents) have been developed for years and no web
interface can replace the power of this tools.
If you wanted an additional web interface, that would be very good, too.
Just replacing the mailinglists with a webbased discussion interface
will be more usefull in some respects and less usefull in other
respects, but overall you will loose usability over a mailinglists
with webarchive.
Bernhard is correct I believe. But the two mediums compliment each
other, but do not replace each other. As I understand the original
message CERL wants/nneds to shut down the listserve? Can the GRASS team at
Baylor not set up a new one to compliment the web based medium? I for
one would like to see both.
One option if no one at Baylor or another server (hint hint hint) has the
time/resoruces would be to use http://www.onelist.com which is a free mailing
listserver which archives up 5-10 megs of messages (I forget which).
Just set up the list, move your subscirbers over, and viola, everything
is running. The only draw backs are A: putting up with three lines of advertisement at
the top of each message, and B: the daily digests are grouped by date,
not subject so sorting can be a problem. However if the Grass list is to
die and there is no one to pick up the torch I would be happy to set this
onelist up if a few other folks wanted to help out. Really should be low
maintenance. I currently manage a number of lists there and it takes
little of my time.
Thoughts, comments?
R. Joe
Hi, Bruce
As an eight-year grassu-list veteran, I'd have to agree with Bernhard
that the listserver has proven itself to be a versatile tool. One major
advantage that it has over most other tools is that it conveniently keeps
users involved who may not be currently working closely with GRASS, yet
still have much useful information to contribute.
I have a feeling that, if you _do_ decide to drop the listserver, someone
outside of Baylor will pick it up (heck, it could be me!). Please
consider whether you'd like to keep this aspect of support centralized or
not.
Regards,
-Malcolm Williamson
On Sun, 30 May 1999, Bruce Byars wrote:
Greetings GRASS Users,
A new on-line forum called GRASSnet has been started that will replace
the majordomo mailing list. We have been working with USA-CERL on
just how to replace the mailing list, and have come to the conclusion
that a discussion board would be easier to manage as well as easier for
the
user community. The result is called GRASSnet which you can find at
the address:
http://grassnet.baylor.edu
Check it out and leave us a message. We are not sure sure when CERL
is turing off the majordomo GRASS lists, but they have requested that
we get up and running as soon as possible. This system will also allow
us to respond quickly to any bug reports/suggestions/comments that you
may
have. It is also a great forum for interaction. Currently there are
forums for Users, Developers, Installation Tips/Tricks, and Research.
We are
planning to further expand this service over the next several weeks, so
any
suggestions and comments you have are more than welcome.
In closing, our team would like to thank everyone for their support!
Bruce Byars
Senior Research Scientist
GRASS Development Team
CAGSR - Baylor University
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
On Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:00:22PM -0500, Bruce Byars wrote:
> A new on-line forum called GRASSnet has been started that will replace
> the majordomo mailing list. We have been working with USA-CERL on
If you wanted an additional web interface, that would be very good, too.
Just replacing the mailinglists with a webbased discussion interface
will be more usefull in some respects and less usefull in other
respects, but overall you will loose usability over a mailinglists
with webarchive.
Well I don't think it will be possible replace mailinglists.
Other free software developments also doesn't show that trend.
Slashdot e.g. is very successful for general, but almost everything
in the big projects GNOME (www.gnome.org) and Debian (www.debian.org)
happens in mailinglists. (Except for tracking and archiving bugs, which
is no interaction.)
I want to add my voice here, too. Mail lists are several orders of
magnitude more useful than are web-based lists. For example, I will
fetchmail several times a day and read the results in pine. However, I may
fire up Navigator once a day to check a web site or two. Mail lists are much
more useful -- IMO -- for the kind of self-help interactions we have here.
Rich
Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.
2404 SW 22nd Street
Troutdale, OR 97060-1247 U.S.A.
+ 1 503-667-4517 (voice) | + 1 503-667-8863 (fax)
rshepard@appl-ecosys.com
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, R. Joe Brandon wrote:
One option if no one at Baylor or another server (hint hint hint) has the
time/resoruces would be to use http://www.onelist.com which is a free mailing
listserver which archives up 5-10 megs of messages (I forget which).
However if the Grass list is to
die and there is no one to pick up the torch I would be happy to set this
onelist up if a few other folks wanted to help out. Really should be low
maintenance. I currently manage a number of lists there and it takes
little of my time.
This seems like the best alternative if no one can pick up hosting the
mail list using majordomo or listserv.
Germane to the call for volunteers, I'm stretched quite thin already or
I'd offer to learn. Doing three full-time jobs (administrative, marketing
and project work) plus wanting to spend time away from work and with my
fiancee means that my spare time is usually limited to when I'm sleeping.
I hope the mail list finds a new home. Or, at worst, someone can help
maintain the onelist thingie.
Rich
Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.
2404 SW 22nd Street
Troutdale, OR 97060-1247 U.S.A.
+ 1 503-667-4517 (voice) | + 1 503-667-8863 (fax)
rshepard@appl-ecosys.com
It strikes me that the web discussion mechanism, which inevitably requires
some initiative from the participants, could wind up generating a lot less
useful back and forth among the GRASS user community. Mail just arrives:
There's no need to go looking for it to see if there's something of
interest, and responding is an easy reaction. I hope that some way can be
found to keep the mailing list option available as R Joe suggests.
...
> A new on-line forum called GRASSnet has been started that will replace
> the majordomo mailing list. We have been working with USA-CERL on
> just how to replace the mailing list, and have come to the conclusion
> that a discussion board would be easier to manage as well as easier for
> the user community.
Why did you come to that conclusion?
Mailinglists still are the best choice for this kind of interaction.
MUA (mail user agents) have been developed for years and no web
interface can replace the power of this tools.
...
> The result is called GRASSnet which you can find at
> the address:
>
> http://grassnet.baylor.edu
Sorry, it doesn't look very nice and my MUA gives me much more Power.
...
I have to confess I haven't looked at http://grassnet.baylor.edu. The
site may be fine. However, I have very limited band width, so I try to
avoid using netscape and the like.
But, maybe that is the point. I really prefer mailing lists for things
like the GRASS list. I have good mail readers and writers, and I can
setup automatic filters to help me pin point postings of interest.
Try to do this with a web based system.
One of the people responding to this posting, talked about the gome and
kde mailing lists vs. Slashdot. I agree with all he/she said, but I would
like to add an example of where a mailing list worked when a web site did
not.
People tryed to organize a Linux users group in Eugene, Oregon USA for a
couple years. They had a nice web site and tryed to have meetings; but
attendance was poor; and there wasn't any communication between meetings.
Someone (Actually, I suggested it.) finally suggested putting up a mailing
list last December, and they put one up in Jan 1999. This was the KEY.
This gave them good rapid response communications. The mailing list soon
became busy. People got word when meetings were scheduled. Attendance
shot up. The group is now very active. And I really think the mailing
list was the KEY.
In light of this, I conclude the GRASS needs a mailing list.
If CERL shuts the current lists down and Baylor doesn't want to take it
over, someone else needs to do this. I know at least three ISPs who
would host the list for free, so that wouldn't be a problem. I have found
that lists like this require a bit of time to administrate, but it isn't a
killer. I administrate several lists already so I would prefer not taking
on another, but I would be willing to help someone else get started.
David Mandel
======================================================================
*** Change of Address and Phone Number ***
I recently left AverStar's BLM/USFS contract to start
A Linux Consultancy specializing in Training and Software Porting
Updated phone and address information is posted at
http://www.transport.com/~dmandel
(503) 284-9723 Portland (541) 752-3769 Corvallis
Germane to the call for volunteers, I'm stretched quite thin already or
I'd offer to learn. Doing three full-time jobs (administrative, marketing
and project work) plus wanting to spend time away from work and with my
fiancee means that my spare time is usually limited to when I'm sleeping.
I hope the mail list finds a new home. Or, at worst, someone can help
maintain the onelist thingie.
Rich
Hi,
I agree - the mailing list should be kept alive! Malcolm, perhaps
you or someone else could offer this service? I think, Baylor´s team
is overwhelmed with work - let´s distribute the workload.
Unfortunately I cannot offer this service. Managing the GRASS server
beside all the user´s requests (currently 250 emails unanswered) is
enough workload for me beside my job at university.
In my opinion we need both: The new message board AND the
mailing list.
Markus Neteler
---------------------------------------------------------------
Universitaet Hannover Schneiderberg 50
Geographisches Institut | 30167 Hannover, Germany
Physische Geographie Tel: ++49-(0)511-762-4494 /-3924
& Landschaftsoekologie Fax: ++49-(0)511-762-3984
neteler@geog.uni-hannover.de
http://www.geog.uni-hannover.de/users/neteler/
---------------------------------------------------------------
I also hope that somebody, somewhere can keep up
the mailing list.
Agus
****NOTE NEW PHONE NUMBER*****
Dr. Agustin Lobo
Instituto de Ciencias de la Tierra (CSIC)
Lluis Sole Sabaris s/n
08028 Barcelona SPAIN
tel 34 93409 5410
fax 34 93411 0012
alobo@ija.csic.es
http://pangea.ija.csic.es/alobo
Well, I've just checked the Forum; it looks promising if the web server is
as fast as my HD... I've worked with Grass two years ago, but lately I
didn't have time to work with it cause I have to use these shitty expensive
soft. specified by the technical annex of the project I'm working on. The
only thing that kept me updated with the Grass progress is the mailing
list... It's all there on my PC and I swap the mails in less than a '. In
addition I can telnet to see what's new! The forum can not replace the
mailing list; it will be only reaching dudes whom r working and facing
problems with Grass... the interaction will be much slower and weaker due
to the time needed to serf the forum. With the mailing list, there are
answers that proceed the question... Honestly, I won't have time to go and
look for what's new in the Grass world. The mailing list was like a wife
who prepares the food for a busy husband... There's a lot of money in the
market for science, can't there be some for keeping this mailing list?
Can't deny all your efforts that I thank you for, after all we're getting
this support for free...
Best regards,
Pascal AKL
At 20:47 01/06/99 -0500, you wrote:
It strikes me that the web discussion mechanism, which inevitably requires
some initiative from the participants, could wind up generating a lot less
useful back and forth among the GRASS user community. Mail just arrives:
There's no need to go looking for it to see if there's something of
interest, and responding is an easy reaction.
I agree with that especially for those who do not have a permanent Web
access. It is much easier and cheaper to quickly download the bulk of
messages and then read them offline rather than blocking a phone line while
browsing through a web forum.
Moritz
This discussion may provide its own answer. There have been about a dozen emails on this subject in a couple of days--this on a list that has been very quiet recently.
Meanwhile vball@socrates.berkeley.edu's question on v.where, posted on the web forum, hasn't received an answer yet.
Hal Mueller http://www.peak.org/~hal/ (through June)
Seattle, Washington (206) 297-9574
hal@seanet.com
I agree with the fact that getting mails at your mailbox is not the same than having to go and look for the messages somewhere.
I think it's more usefull to some ways to have the mailinglist.
Kindly
karine
Dear Grasser,
Agustin Lobo wrote:
I also hope that somebody, somewhere can keep up
the mailing list.
Agus
****NOTE NEW PHONE NUMBER*****
Dr. Agustin Lobo
me too.
Best Regards,
--
Phisan Santitamnont, Dr.-Ing.
Survey Engineering Department
Chulalongkorn University
Pathumwan Rd, Bangkok 10330
Tel. +66 (2) 218 66 61
Fax. +66 (2) 218 66 53
mailto:fsvpss@eng.chula.ac.th
http://www.sv.eng.chula.ac.th/Staff/Phisan
Phisan Santitamnont wrote:
Dear Grasser,
Agustin Lobo wrote:
> I also hope that somebody, somewhere can keep up
> the mailing list.
>
> Agus
>
> ****NOTE NEW PHONE NUMBER*****
> Dr. Agustin Lobo
me too.
Best Regards,
--
Phisan Santitamnont, Dr.-Ing.
Survey Engineering Department
Chulalongkorn University
Pathumwan Rd, Bangkok 10330
Tel. +66 (2) 218 66 61
Fax. +66 (2) 218 66 53
mailto:fsvpss@eng.chula.ac.th
http://www.sv.eng.chula.ac.th/Staff/Phisan
me too, also