[Geoserver-devel] Considering a new WMS/WMTS output format: jpeg or png (JPENG for friends)

Hi,

I would remember image/mixed easier. But will there be need for other mixtures later?

-Jukka Rahkonen-

Andrea Aime wrote:

···

Hi all,

when working with imagery it happens often enough that one wants the compression

factor of a JPEG, but also transparency at the raster data edges.

Unfortunately one cannot have both… or can she?

With tiled maps we can introduce a new output format, which I nicknamed JPENG

(JPEg or pNG) that would return the right compression depending on the tile content:

if it’s fully opaque, JPEG, if there is any transparency, PNG instead, of course setting

the right return type headers so that the browser can do the right decoding.

It’s simple enough and would save significant bandwidth (and also CPU, JPEG is

faster to compress) for imagery that also needs occasional transparency support.

I’d add this at a WMS output format, and if time allows, WMTS too… but no guarantees,

I have actually no funding backing any of this (I’m doing it for another system), but it seems

quick to implement in GeoServer too and would be a pity to lose it.

Objections? Suggestions for a better name (I checked a few other variants, but they seem to be

already in use on the internet with a different meaning)?

Cheers

Andrea

==

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@geowolf

Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)

phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

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On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Rahkonen Jukka (MML) <
jukka.rahkonen@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi,

I would remember image/mixed easier. But will there be need for other
mixtures later?

Yes, mixed is too generic imho. If we want more clarity, what about
image/jpeg-png ?

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

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-------------------------------------------------------

What an interesting problem, I don’t really mind what format is named as. I find image/jpeg-png to be clear, but if other software is using image/jpeng it is worth while to avoid introducing an alternate “standard”.

Aside: GeoTIFF provides a lot of flexibility in encoding contents, including JPEG compression. Is it worth dynamically tuning the image/tiff output compression for the same affect as above?

···

On 9 June 2016 at 10:40, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:


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Jody Garnett

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Rahkonen Jukka (MML) <jukka.rahkonen@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi,

I would remember image/mixed easier. But will there be need for other mixtures later?

Yes, mixed is too generic imho. If we want more clarity, what about image/jpeg-png ?

Cheers

Andrea

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime

@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

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The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.


Yes, mixed is too generic imho. If we want more clarity, what about image/jpeg-png ?

Concur with not using mixed. I'd suggest not using an unapproved mime code (that isn't "real" in the sense that there is no format description document / IANA registration). We probably need to be in the vendor tree, so it would look like:
image/vnd.jpeg-png

There is a x- prefix that can be used for experiments prior to registration.

Brad

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com>
wrote:

What an interesting problem, I don't really mind what format is named as.
I find image/jpeg-png to be clear, but if other software is using
image/jpeng it is worth while to avoid introducing an alternate
"standard".

Nah, nobody is using it. The other systems we have seen use "mixed" as a
config parameter, but I don't know what they expose.

Aside: GeoTIFF provides a lot of flexibility in encoding contents,
including JPEG compression. Is it worth dynamically tuning the image/tiff
output compression for the same affect as above?

Unsure... that depends a lot on the user, and GeoTIFF is a different kind
of beast... I would handle it in a different way, allowing
the user to specify what they want like in WCS 2.0, if that machinery gets
built then yes, within that context it would make
a bit more sense to have a way for the user to tell GeoServer to use a
"JPEG or DEFLATE" compression based on whether
there is transparency (but then again, one could argue that in that case it
makes more sense to return a JPEG compressed
image with a binary nodata mask instead... as said, GeoTiff is
complicated...)

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

*AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003*

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The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
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-------------------------------------------------------

Raising this more as a “something for the future” but it’s related to this discussion: there’s also the WebP format ( https://developers.google.com/speed/webp/ ).

It’s probably not suitable for use yet simply because several browsers don’t implement it, and it’s still undergoing some development, but from a technical perspective as best I can tell it offers both lossy and lossless compression, plus transparency for both types.
The advantage if it ever takes off is that you don’t need to use multiple formats for the “same” content, just a flag for the compression type.

Cheers,
Jonathan

---- On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 12:01:04 +0100 Andrea Aime<andrea.aime@anonymised.com8…> wrote ----

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com> wrote:

What an interesting problem, I don’t really mind what format is named as. I find image/jpeg-png to be clear, but if other software is using image/jpeng it is worth while to avoid introducing an alternate “standard”.

Nah, nobody is using it. The other systems we have seen use “mixed” as a config parameter, but I don’t know what they expose.

Aside: GeoTIFF provides a lot of flexibility in encoding contents, including JPEG compression. Is it worth dynamically tuning the image/tiff output compression for the same affect as above?

Unsure… that depends a lot on the user, and GeoTIFF is a different kind of beast… I would handle it in a different way, allowing
the user to specify what they want like in WCS 2.0, if that machinery gets built then yes, within that context it would make
a bit more sense to have a way for the user to tell GeoServer to use a “JPEG or DEFLATE” compression based on whether
there is transparency (but then again, one could argue that in that case it makes more sense to return a JPEG compressed
image with a binary nodata mask instead… as said, GeoTiff is complicated…)

Cheers
Andrea

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime

@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.



What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
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consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
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