[Geoserver-devel] Documentation for complex_sco branch / Complex features in trunk

Hi list,

I'm going to be wanting to generate GML documents conforming to a defined application schema with complex features in there, so I've got hold of the complex_sco branch from svn, but there doesn't seem to be much/any documentation in there to help with config/understanding how it works. So question one is, is there an FAQ or similar out there, or some hints from the developers?

Question two is what the timeline is for incorporating the complex features stuff into the main geoserver/geotools?

Cheers,

Ed Nash

Hi list,

I'm going to be wanting to generate GML documents conforming to a
defined application schema with complex features in there, so I've got
hold of the complex_sco branch from svn, but there doesn't seem to be
much/any documentation in there to help with config/understanding how it
works. So question one is, is there an FAQ or similar out there, or some
hints from the developers?

No, no faq. I can try to give my basic understanding of how it works, and
hopefully more knowledgeable sources will correct me. And I'm not sure
exactly where you put the files. Basically you define your sql statement,
and then you define the mappings of where each column should go in the
output hierarchy. There may be two show stoppers for you - 1) oracle is
the only one that has had any success working afaik, and 2) it's kind of
brittle, and a few things don't work right, and there's no easy way to
correct them.

Question two is what the timeline is for incorporating the complex
features stuff into the main geoserver/geotools?

Gabriel Roldan and Rob Atkinson are doing some work over the next two
months with that as the goal. Or at least enough to meet their needs,
with the intent to get full geotools head acceptance in the next funding
period. If you have development resources it'd probably be best to aim
them in that direction, collaborate with them, get your use cases in as
well (I think that's what they're doing right now), and then help out in
the implementations. I think it would be much better spent time than
pulling your hair out trying to get the sco_complex branch going, since
it's currently way off of head. They may be updating that branch directly
though, so hopefully they'll sound in with their exact plans.

best regards,

Chris

Cheers,

Ed Nash

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Hi Edward,

here is some documentation on configuring the complex_sco stuff:
https://www.seegrid.csiro.au/twiki/bin/view/Infosrvices/GeometrylessJDBCDataStore
https://www.seegrid.csiro.au/twiki/pub/Infosrvices/SEEGridRoadshow2005TechnicalQandA/GuidelinesforGeoservermappingusingschema.doc

Social Change Online just started (yesterday) a process to enhance the branch
functionality and get it incorporated across geotools/geoserver code base.
The complex stuff will indeed be its own DataStore, but there are some very
core geotools issues to accomplish in order to leaving it in place.

the timeline for this is mid september.

regards,

Gabriel

On Tuesday 19 July 2005 18:08, Edward Nash wrote:

Hi list,

I'm going to be wanting to generate GML documents conforming to a
defined application schema with complex features in there, so I've got
hold of the complex_sco branch from svn, but there doesn't seem to be
much/any documentation in there to help with config/understanding how it
works. So question one is, is there an FAQ or similar out there, or some
hints from the developers?

Question two is what the timeline is for incorporating the complex
features stuff into the main geoserver/geotools?

Cheers,

Ed Nash

-------------------------------------------------------
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Hi

happy to help, but as has been mentioned we have initiated a project to take our initial "proof-of-concept" implementation into a more flexible and friendly implementation. Gabriel is due to have our branch realigned with the head version initially - I'd certainly wait for that, and please talk with me if you want to get involved in the project to fully implement it.

Chris Holmes wrote:

Hi list,

I'm going to be wanting to generate GML documents conforming to a defined application schema with complex features in there, so I've got hold of the complex_sco branch from svn, but there doesn't seem to be much/any documentation in there to help with config/understanding how it works. So question one is, is there an FAQ or similar out there, or some hints from the developers?
   

Gabriel sent the links to the doco - its on a project Web Site, but linked from geotools Rnd page at:
http://geotools.org/Community+Schema+Support+and+Complex+Types

(needs updating with details of the new project...)

And I'm not sure exactly where you put the files.

standard info.xml and schema.xml files, but with some

Basically you define your sql statement, and then you define the mappings of where each column should go in the output hierarchy.

There may be two show stoppers for you - 1) oracle is the only one that has had any success working afaik,

Actually it works with any JDBC based datastore - we have tested against:
PostGIS
Oracle_spatial
Geometryless with mysql, postgres,oracle, mssql

we are seeking resources to extend this to any datastore type (and in fact creating features from multiple different data stores - eg geometry in shape file, attributes in DB

and 2) it's kind of brittle,

works ok once configured, but really fairly unfriendly - a correct configuration takes minutes, an incorrect one could take hours to debug

and a few things don't work right, and there's no easy way to correct them.

e.g. maxfeatures etc - we didnt have the option of fixing geotools APIs so we skirted some issues.

Question two is what the timeline is for incorporating the complex features stuff into the main geoserver/geotools?
   

Gabriel Roldan and Rob Atkinson are doing some work over the next two months with that as the goal.

started this week!

Or at least enough to meet their needs,

to get as far as complex_sco in the first (fully funded) phase

with the intent to get full geotools head acceptance in the next funding period.

have some sponsors lined up to fully generalise the solution, but still seeking input on any level - developer, testing, requirements, endorsement of need, cash (which will be directed to the geotools development team - although we are currently project managing it since we have clear business objectives on behalf of a range of clients.)

If you have development resources it'd probably be best to aim them in that direction, collaborate with them, get your use cases in as well (I think that's what they're doing right now), and then help out in the implementations.

I think it would be much better spent time than pulling your hair out trying to get the sco_complex branch going, since it's currently way off of head. They may be updating that branch directly though, so hopefully they'll sound in with their exact plans.

depends on your timeframe, let me know what you need, when and I'll try to advise and coordinate your input as a beta tester if you like.

Rob Atkinson
Social Change Online

best regards,

Chris

Cheers,

Ed Nash

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Hi,

I e-mailed back in July asking a bit about the complex features and community schema support. I've since managed to get an instance of the complex_sco branch up and running and found out what it can (and can't) do. From the wiki, e-mail lists and IRC logs I understand that there's been some work been done on this which should be delivering something sometime soon (I also see that there's a lot of background changes in GeoTools & GeoServer required, so I'm wondering just what has been accomplished in a relatively short time!).

Basically I'd be interested to know whether there's going to be any further developments going on the SVN server (or available elsewhere) soon, and what those developments are, before we sit down here and start hacking away at what we've currently got and end up with a completely exotic solution. We *may* also be able to help contribute to some 'proper' development, particularly if there's some relatively self-contained sections that help meet our needs (I've identified 3 main functionality stumbling blocks in the current complex_sco branch, at least one of which I've a feeling will be a tricky one to sort out on the hacking-in-a-branch level) - but I don't think anyone here has worked with GeoServer/Tools before, and big Java project experience is also limited (but can no doubt be quickly learnt!).

(also as an aside if any of the uDIG guys read this, I'd also be interested to know plans for supporting complex GML in uDIG - but I guess that's probably a bit tied to the required changes in GeoTools?)

Thanks in advance for the replies.

Ed Nash

--
preagro TP7 - Geodateninfrastruktur
http://www.preagro.de

Universität Rostock
Agrar- und Umweltwissenschaftliche Fakultät
Professur für Geodäsie und Geoinformatik
Justus-von-Liebig-Weg 6
18059 Rostock

Tel: +49 381 498 2164
Fax: +49 381 498 2188
Web: http://www.auf.uni-rostok.de/gg

Edward Nash wrote:

Hi,

I e-mailed back in July asking a bit about the complex features and community schema support. I've since managed to get an instance of the complex_sco branch up and running and found out what it can (and can't) do. From the wiki, e-mail lists and IRC logs I understand that there's been some work been done on this which should be delivering something sometime soon (I also see that there's a lot of background changes in GeoTools & GeoServer required, so I'm wondering just what has been accomplished in a relatively short time!).

Basically I'd be interested to know whether there's going to be any further developments going on the SVN server

there wont be any development on the complex_sco branch - its served its purpose and will be decommissioned. We have a funded projects half-way through to rebuild with geotools API enhancements.

Please update the wiki for the project with any additional requirements you think you have.

Gabriel Roldan and Jody Garnett are probably best place to recommend how participation in the coding might best be achieved, but I'd like to be in the loop for definition of functionality requirements.

Regards
Rob Atkinson
Social Change Online

(or available elsewhere) soon, and what those developments are, before we sit down here and start hacking away at what we've currently got and end up with a completely exotic solution. We *may* also be able to help contribute to some 'proper' development, particularly if there's some relatively self-contained sections that help meet our needs (I've identified 3 main functionality stumbling blocks in the current complex_sco branch, at least one of which I've a feeling will be a tricky one to sort out on the hacking-in-a-branch level) - but I don't think anyone here has worked with GeoServer/Tools before, and big Java project experience is also limited (but can no doubt be quickly learnt!).

(also as an aside if any of the uDIG guys read this, I'd also be interested to know plans for supporting complex GML in uDIG - but I guess that's probably a bit tied to the required changes in GeoTools?)

Thanks in advance for the replies.

Ed Nash

Edward Nash wrote:

Hi,

I e-mailed back in July asking a bit about the complex features and community schema support. I've since managed to get an instance of the complex_sco branch up and running and found out what it can (and can't) do. From the wiki, e-mail lists and IRC logs I understand that there's been some work been done on this which should be delivering something sometime soon (I also see that there's a lot of background changes in GeoTools & GeoServer required, so I'm wondering just what has been accomplished in a relatively short time!).

Basically I'd be interested to know whether there's going to be any further developments going on the SVN server (or available elsewhere) soon, and what those developments are, before we sit down here and start hacking away at what we've currently got and end up with a completely exotic solution. We *may* also be able to help contribute to some 'proper' development, particularly if there's some relatively self-contained sections that help meet our needs (I've identified 3 main functionality stumbling blocks in the current complex_sco branch, at least one of which I've a feeling will be a tricky one to sort out on the hacking-in-a-branch level) - but I don't think anyone here has worked with GeoServer/Tools before, and big Java project experience is also limited (but can no doubt be quickly learnt!).

(also as an aside if any of the uDIG guys read this, I'd also be interested to know plans for supporting complex GML in uDIG - but I guess that's probably a bit tied to the required changes in GeoTools?)

If you check out the proposal page you can see a bit of a timeline. UDIG cannot start looking at this until November, but unless a few more volunteers show up on the geotools side everyone will just be stuck waiting on that codebase....
-<http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Feature+Model+Proposal&gt;

I also have GeoServer scheduled to start transition in Novemeber (on a branch) and merged into trunk for a milestone release around Decemeber. This is one of the motivations for asking what is going on ... trying to do public planning.

One of the difficulties is I am not really sure who is doing what, I understand some of the parties are waiting of word from their sponsors etc... If you have any time please let me know :slight_smile:

Extra hands are always good, builds community as well as code.

Cheers,
Jody