[Geoserver-devel] geoserver in utility

Gerald_Estadieu3 · June 13, 2005, 1:27pm

Hi,
We are a utility company (water, electricity) looking for a GIS solution and we definitively
are interested by GeoServer as the heart of our solution for several
reasons (Java based, standard support, open source and so on...). We are
currently setting up a test environment to convince our developer team
and validate a certain number of ideas. We are very much in favor of
open source solution rather than propriatary solutions and we verbaly
agree (internaly) that our company can support projects like Geoserver
in the future and give back internal development if any.
I have personaly follow geoserver for quite some times and developed a
web SVG client (more information at http://www.innovativemap.com/ ). It
is currently not OGC compliant in our prototype but it is the ultimate
target for this year and it will be open source too. Our ultimate goal
is to have a native svg support with the coming of Firefox 1.1 and even
a rich client using either Mozilla XUL technology with plugin system or
simply uDig.

Here are a couple of questions that we are trying to solve due to our
specific environment (I did search mailing list archive before...):
- Informix DataStore
Currently our database is Informix and we do not plan to change it. Yes
we will try PostgreSQL but a complete switch is not for tomorrow. We
have the Spatial extension for this dbms and Informix claims that it is
OGC compliant, and of course they do have a JDBC driver. I know that
Geoserver or rather Geotools does not have any datastore for Informix,
therefore I have 2 questions:
- How difficult it is to write a datastore? If it is not too hight we
might find a way to do it by ourself.
- Is there anybody who can help us on this? either for the development
or we can try to get some fund maybe (need confirmation on that)

- Geoserver on IBM WebSphere
Anybody have an experience to run GeoServer within IBM Websphere? I do
not expect any big issue to deploy the war but if anybody has some
experience on this it will be more than welcome.

- Geoserver benchmark
On the long term, our several web applications which can integrate geospatial information will be
accessible by 1.500 users, therefore we were wondering if anybody have any benchmark / info about clustering solution and so on...

- Authentication and User profile
in real world, at least in private sector, we must control who have
access to what that's why we must make sure that we control geospatial
data access. Any recommendation on this topic? We have basically two
possible approach:
1. we integrate the security system within geoserver using JAAS/LDAP/CAS
or anything else.
2. integrate the authentication inside applications and do not touch to
geoserver as such.
Any recommendation on this aspect?

- Nested feature types
in utilities it is very common to have nested layers, e.g.:
- Water
-- Pipes
--- Pipes 100 diameter
--- Pipes 50 d.
- Electricity
-- High Voltage
--- Cable Network
--- Substation
...
In there any standard way to implement this within the data model inside the database and/or in WFS, or we have to develop our own way?

Ok I stop here for my questions and I want to thanks all developers for
this great solution, we believe that they can be part of new and modern
corporate GIS.
Gerald

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jive · June 13, 2005, 7:49pm

Gerald Estadieu wrote:

Hi Gerald - thanks for the mention of uDig. If you have any questions about the DataStore API, or the tutorials on writing of the same, I am happy to help. The JDBCDataStore class lacks tutorials, and is a little bit more fun - but Justin has recent experience.

is to have a native svg support with the coming of Firefox 1.1 and even a rich client using either Mozilla XUL technology with plugin system or simply uDig.

Here are a couple of questions that we are trying to solve due to our specific environment (I did search mailing list archive before...): - Informix DataStore Currently our database is Informix and we do not plan to change it. Yes we will try PostgreSQL but a complete switch is not for tomorrow. We have the Spatial extension for this dbms and Informix claims that it is OGC compliant, and of course they do have a JDBC driver. I know that Geoserver or rather Geotools does not have any datastore for Informix, therefore I have 2 questions: - How difficult it is to write a datastore? If it is not too hight we might find a way to do it by ourself.

Easier for a "simple" datastore (say based on results sets), harder when you you map Filter to SQL. But there are lots of support classes (AbstractDatastore and JDBCDataStore). A tutorial is available for AbstractDataStore.

- Is there anybody who can help us on this? either for the development or we can try to get some fund maybe (need confirmation on that)

Refractions can also set you up commerical support as required. Paul Ramsey is you best contact to set anything like that up. I found a page for GeoServer support here - http://www.refractions.net/geoserver/support.html.

TOPP is also available for such work - although I am not sure where their rates are.

- Geoserver benchmark On the long term, our several web applications which can integrate geospatial information will be accessible by 1.500 users, therefore we were wondering if anybody have any benchmark / info about clustering solution and so on...

There is some performance stats here - http://vwfs.refractions.net/ Mostly the centered around the performance improvements made as part of the switch to the DataStore API. However for a client recently we were able to make ArcSDE go 10 times faster.

- Authentication and User profile in real world, at least in private sector, we must control who have access to what that's why we must make sure that we control geospatial data access. Any recommendation on this topic? We have basically two possible approach: 1. we integrate the security system within geoserver using JAAS/LDAP/CAS or anything else. 2. integrate the authentication inside applications and do not touch to geoserver as such. Any recommendation on this aspect?

DACS - I cannot remember what it stands for - but uDig supported it recently for exactly this needed. As I recall it is a federated authentication system, handled mostly at the apache level. So GeoServer is not harmed in the process.

- Nested feature types in utilities it is very common to have nested layers, e.g.:

This is an outstanding issue with lots of thought, Chris Holmes was trying to gather together enough developer support (and funding) to work on this issue in earnest last month. With GML3 and our recent improvements to the FeatureType model the community has a pretty clear idea of what needs to be done. However My first step would be a series of slides showing the problem at a technical level.

Basically this one is hard, the community has tried three times in the last year.

In there any standard way to implement this within the data model inside the database and/or in WFS, or we have to develop our own way?

Talk to RobA - he has done this for GeoServer as a one off.

Ok I stop here for my questions and I want to thanks all developers for this great solution, we believe that they can be part of new and modern corporate GIS.

That is what we signed up for And thanks for the great questions.
Jody

Rob_Atkinson · June 13, 2005, 7:59pm

Hi,
am trying to finalise a plan to get the schema-mapping stuff into the head of geoserver then geotools.

You might be also be able to use the "geometryless" Datastore to access JDBC driver for locations based data. The source code for this uses the best examples (at the time) from other data stores in terms of setup - it might be the easiest and cleanest to follow.

Not my area of expertise, but it seems we really really ought to have a OGC simple features SQL interface DataStore however?

cheers

Rob Atkinson

Jody Garnett wrote:

Gerald Estadieu wrote:

Hi Gerald - thanks for the mention of uDig. If you have any questions about the DataStore API, or the tutorials on writing of the same, I am happy to help. The JDBCDataStore class lacks tutorials, and is a little bit more fun - but Justin has recent experience.

is to have a native svg support with the coming of Firefox 1.1 and even a rich client using either Mozilla XUL technology with plugin system or simply uDig.
Here are a couple of questions that we are trying to solve due to our specific environment (I did search mailing list archive before...): - Informix DataStore Currently our database is Informix and we do not plan to change it. Yes we will try PostgreSQL but a complete switch is not for tomorrow. We have the Spatial extension for this dbms and Informix claims that it is OGC compliant, and of course they do have a JDBC driver. I know that Geoserver or rather Geotools does not have any datastore for Informix, therefore I have 2 questions: - How difficult it is to write a datastore? If it is not too hight we might find a way to do it by ourself.

Easier for a "simple" datastore (say based on results sets), harder when you you map Filter to SQL. But there are lots of support classes (AbstractDatastore and JDBCDataStore). A tutorial is available for AbstractDataStore.

- Is there anybody who can help us on this? either for the development or we can try to get some fund maybe (need confirmation on that)

Refractions can also set you up commerical support as required. Paul Ramsey is you best contact to set anything like that up. I found a page for GeoServer support here - http://www.refractions.net/geoserver/support.html.

TOPP is also available for such work - although I am not sure where their rates are.

- Geoserver benchmark On the long term, our several web applications which can integrate geospatial information will be accessible by 1.500 users, therefore we were wondering if anybody have any benchmark / info about clustering solution and so on...

There is some performance stats here - http://vwfs.refractions.net/ Mostly the centered around the performance improvements made as part of the switch to the DataStore API. However for a client recently we were able to make ArcSDE go 10 times faster.

- Authentication and User profile in real world, at least in private sector, we must control who have access to what that's why we must make sure that we control geospatial data access. Any recommendation on this topic? We have basically two possible approach: 1. we integrate the security system within geoserver using JAAS/LDAP/CAS or anything else. 2. integrate the authentication inside applications and do not touch to geoserver as such. Any recommendation on this aspect?

DACS - I cannot remember what it stands for - but uDig supported it recently for exactly this needed. As I recall it is a federated authentication system, handled mostly at the apache level. So GeoServer is not harmed in the process.

- Nested feature types in utilities it is very common to have nested layers, e.g.:

This is an outstanding issue with lots of thought, Chris Holmes was trying to gather together enough developer support (and funding) to work on this issue in earnest last month. With GML3 and our recent improvements to the FeatureType model the community has a pretty clear idea of what needs to be done. However My first step would be a series of slides showing the problem at a technical level.

Basically this one is hard, the community has tried three times in the last year.

In there any standard way to implement this within the data model inside the database and/or in WFS, or we have to develop our own way?

Talk to RobA - he has done this for GeoServer as a one off.

Ok I stop here for my questions and I want to thanks all developers for this great solution, we believe that they can be part of new and modern corporate GIS.

That is what we signed up for And thanks for the great questions.
Jody

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Chris_Holmes1 · June 13, 2005, 9:39pm

Quoting Jody Garnett <jgarnett@anonymised.com>:

Gerald Estadieu wrote:

Hi Gerald - thanks for the mention of uDig. If you have any questions
about the DataStore API, or the tutorials on writing of the same, I
am
happy to help. The JDBCDataStore class lacks tutorials, and is a
little
bit more fun - but Justin has recent experience.

>is to have a native svg support with the coming of Firefox 1.1 and
even
>a rich client using either Mozilla XUL technology with plugin system
or
>simply uDig.
>
>Here are a couple of questions that we are trying to solve due to
our
>specific environment (I did search mailing list archive before...):
>- Informix DataStore
>Currently our database is Informix and we do not plan to change it.
Yes
>we will try PostgreSQL but a complete switch is not for tomorrow. We
>have the Spatial extension for this dbms and Informix claims that it
is
>OGC compliant, and of course they do have a JDBC driver. I know that
>Geoserver or rather Geotools does not have any datastore for
Informix,
>therefore I have 2 questions:
>- How difficult it is to write a datastore? If it is not too hight
we
>might find a way to do it by ourself.
>
>
Easier for a "simple" datastore (say based on results sets), harder
when
you you map Filter to SQL. But there are lots of support classes
(AbstractDatastore and JDBCDataStore). A tutorial is available for
AbstractDataStore.

Also note that there has been some work done on informix. This is in a
jira issue, so you'll have to search for it, no one's been motivated to
roll it in. Basically they wrote a Geometry Converter just like the
one in Oracle, but for informix. Abstracted out the oracle stuff to an
interface that both implement. They were only using it for
programming, so didn't go with a full datastore, but basically you
should be able to find the code to get you started. So even if their
claim of ogc compliance is off, then you should still be able to do
their geometries easy.

>- Is there anybody who can help us on this? either for the
development
>or we can try to get some fund maybe (need confirmation on that)
>
>
Refractions can also set you up commerical support as required. Paul
Ramsey is you best contact to set anything like that up. I found a
page
for GeoServer support here -
http://www.refractions.net/geoserver/support.html.

TOPP is also available for such work - although I am not sure where
their rates are.

>- Geoserver benchmark
>On the long term, our several web applications which can integrate
geospatial information will be accessible by 1.500 users, therefore
we were wondering if anybody have any benchmark / info about
clustering solution and so on...
>
>
There is some performance stats here - http://vwfs.refractions.net/
Mostly the centered around the performance improvements made as part
of
the switch to the DataStore API. However for a client recently we
were
able to make ArcSDE go 10 times faster.

>- Authentication and User profile
>in real world, at least in private sector, we must control who have
>access to what that's why we must make sure that we control
geospatial
>data access. Any recommendation on this topic? We have basically two
>possible approach:
>1. we integrate the security system within geoserver using
JAAS/LDAP/CAS
>or anything else.
>2. integrate the authentication inside applications and do not touch
to
>geoserver as such.
>Any recommendation on this aspect?
>
>
DACS - I cannot remember what it stands for - but uDig supported it
recently for exactly this needed. As I recall it is a federated
authentication system, handled mostly at the apache level. So
GeoServer
is not harmed in the process.

Another link for you:
http://geotools.org/SIS+Meta+Infrastructure+current+software Paolo has
done some good security work. I think it may be able to be integrated
into geoserver core, as they kept it modular. But basically people
have started on this, we just need to figure out how to work it in,
make it a bit more official.

>- Nested feature types
>in utilities it is very common to have nested layers, e.g.:
>
>
This is an outstanding issue with lots of thought, Chris Holmes was
trying to gather together enough developer support (and funding) to
work
on this issue in earnest last month. With GML3 and our recent
improvements to the FeatureType model the community has a pretty
clear
idea of what needs to be done. However My first step would be a
series
of slides showing the problem at a technical level.

Basically this one is hard, the community has tried three times in
the
last year.

Yes, we very much want this done, and hopefully should make some
progress in the next few months. Would be great if you could help
out.

>In there any standard way to implement this within the data model
inside the database and/or in WFS, or we have to develop our own way?
>
>
Talk to RobA - he has done this for GeoServer as a one off.

Yes, and he's the one trying to get this stuff in 'for real', with
nested stuff, in GeoServer.

Chris

>Ok I stop here for my questions and I want to thanks all developers
for
>this great solution, we believe that they can be part of new and
modern
>corporate GIS.
>
>
That is what we signed up for And thanks for the great questions.
Jody

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shotput
a projector? How fast can you ride your desk chair down the office
luge track?
If you want to score the big prize, get to know the little guy.
Play to win an NEC 61" plasma display: http://www.necitguy.com/?r=20
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Gabriel_Roldan2 · June 14, 2005, 1:24am

Hi, as the greatest part of your questions was already answered, I'll
try to answer the ones that do not:

- Geoserver on IBM WebSphere
Anybody have an experience to run GeoServer within IBM Websphere? I do
not expect any big issue to deploy the war but if anybody has some
experience on this it will be more than welcome.

Yes, GeoServer works perfectly in Webpshere 5.1+ (since 5.1 is the first
version with a 1.4 JDK)

- Geoserver benchmark
On the long term, our several web applications which can integrate geospatial information will be
accessible by 1.500 users, therefore we were wondering if anybody have any benchmark / info about clustering solution and so on...

Not really, but in the not-so-long term, geoserver will have a much more
scalable architecture. We're just thinking on the alternatives beside a
pure EJB approach. Personally, I wouldn't like to go EJB 2, but EJB 3.0
looks promising.

best regards,

Gabriel.

jive · June 14, 2005, 8:11am

Gabriel Roldán wrote:

- Geoserver benchmark On the long term, our several web applications which can integrate geospatial information will be accessible by 1.500 users, therefore we were wondering if anybody have any benchmark / info about clustering solution and so on...

Not really, but in the not-so-long term, geoserver will have a much more
scalable architecture. We're just thinking on the alternatives beside a
pure EJB approach. Personally, I wouldn't like to go EJB 2, but EJB 3.0
looks promising.

Thinking - we did a performance evaluation of MapServer and GeoServer a while back - Paul Ramsey may be able be able to tell you more. I know the result of the evaluation the request for ArcSDE performance enhancements we talked about earlier (so performance may not be that favorable).

In terms of writing a uDig I generally love MapServer speed, minus a few bugs (like INTERSECT vs INTERSECTS) and limited SLD support. As a WFS GeoServer is wonderful and I cannot mange to talk to Mapserver 4.6 right now (problem may be mine).

Jody