[Geoserver-devel] Is now a good time to remove deprecated wps processes?

GeoServer GeoServer Developer
1

One thing I keep having to explain to users is the reason we have so many duplicated processes in the WPS. Would it be a good idea to remove the deprecated ones before we release 2.14?

As I understand it, there will be no fewer actual processes just fewer prefixes.

I’m happy to do the work if people are happy with the idea.

Ian

2

(Writing from mobile) Personally I’ve never learned the new prefixes, but agree the current situation is messy, so a tiepid +1.
Were the old process names deprecated also documentations wise, and examples using them removed?
In other words, was warning given to users?
I think we have kept using the old names in Geosolutions but I’m not sure, hopefully some of my colleagues will chime in.

Also, remember that ticket you opened about startup failures if a process plugin gets removed? What happens on upgrade for existing installations?

Thinking out loud, would it make sense to stop advertising the old process names, but still support them, and log a warning pointing at the new name?

Cheers
Andrea

Il dom 22 lug 2018, 09:49 Ian Turton <ijturton@anonymised.com.403…> ha scritto:

One thing I keep having to explain to users is the reason we have so many duplicated processes in the WPS. Would it be a good idea to remove the deprecated ones before we release 2.14?

As I understand it, there will be no fewer actual processes just fewer prefixes.

I’m happy to do the work if people are happy with the idea.

Ian

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
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3

I think it would be a good thing to remove, it is always an awkward thing to explain when setting up a new system.

As a halfway measure could we disable these processes for a release, and then remove?

···

–
Jody Garnett

4

Although I am always eager to remove deprecated stuff I send what
Andrea said, we should not break existing installations.

Maybe in the future we will be wiser with deprecations...

Regards,
Simone Giannecchini

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Simone Giannecchini
@simogeo
Founder/Director

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

-------------------------------------------------------
Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali
(Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati
“GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email
(il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui
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cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato
se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential
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by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use
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On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:53 AM Andrea Aime
<andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

(Writing from mobile) Personally I've never learned the new prefixes, but agree the current situation is messy, so a tiepid +1.
Were the old process names deprecated also documentations wise, and examples using them removed?
In other words, was warning given to users?
I think we have kept using the old names in Geosolutions but I'm not sure, hopefully some of my colleagues will chime in.

Also, remember that ticket you opened about startup failures if a process plugin gets removed? What happens on upgrade for existing installations?

Thinking out loud, would it make sense to stop advertising the old process names, but still support them, and log a warning pointing at the new name?

Cheers
Andrea

Il dom 22 lug 2018, 09:49 Ian Turton <ijturton@anonymised.com> ha scritto:

One thing I keep having to explain to users is the reason we have so many duplicated processes in the WPS. Would it be a good idea to remove the deprecated ones before we release 2.14?

As I understand it, there will be no fewer actual processes just fewer prefixes.

I'm happy to do the work if people are happy with the idea.

Ian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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5

How about for this release we disable it by default, and it can still be there to enable (for any installations that need more time to migrate).

It has been marked as deprecated for some time in the UI (the title is “Deprecated processes” in the user interface).

···

–
Jody Garnett

6

It is deprecated only if one checks process security though, I asked before if it is documented too and/or visible in other ways too?

Cheers
Andrea

Il mar 24 lug 2018, 22:06 Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com> ha scritto:

How about for this release we disable it by default, and it can still be there to enable (for any installations that need more time to migrate).

It has been marked as deprecated for some time in the UI (the title is “Deprecated processes” in the user interface).

–
Jody Garnett

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 at 07:22, Simone Giannecchini <simone.giannecchini@anonymised.com> wrote:

Although I am always eager to remove deprecated stuff I send what
Andrea said, we should not break existing installations.

Maybe in the future we will be wiser with deprecations…

Regards,
Simone Giannecchini

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Simone Giannecchini
@simogeo
Founder/Director

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali
(Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati
“GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email
(il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui
conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo
scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a
cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato
se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential
or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided
by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use
of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the
intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by
mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:53 AM Andrea Aime
<andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

(Writing from mobile) Personally I’ve never learned the new prefixes, but agree the current situation is messy, so a tiepid +1.
Were the old process names deprecated also documentations wise, and examples using them removed?
In other words, was warning given to users?
I think we have kept using the old names in Geosolutions but I’m not sure, hopefully some of my colleagues will chime in.

Also, remember that ticket you opened about startup failures if a process plugin gets removed? What happens on upgrade for existing installations?

Thinking out loud, would it make sense to stop advertising the old process names, but still support them, and log a warning pointing at the new name?

Cheers
Andrea

Il dom 22 lug 2018, 09:49 Ian Turton <ijturton@anonymised.com> ha scritto:

One thing I keep having to explain to users is the reason we have so many duplicated processes in the WPS. Would it be a good idea to remove the deprecated ones before we release 2.14?

As I understand it, there will be no fewer actual processes just fewer prefixes.

I’m happy to do the work if people are happy with the idea.

Ian

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
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Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

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7

You may wonder why not checking myself… I’m on mobile seaside, it’s a bit awkward to do.

Cheers
Andrea

Il mar 24 lug 2018, 22:54 Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> ha scritto:

It is deprecated only if one checks process security though, I asked before if it is documented too and/or visible in other ways too?

Cheers
Andrea

Il mar 24 lug 2018, 22:06 Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com> ha scritto:

How about for this release we disable it by default, and it can still be there to enable (for any installations that need more time to migrate).

It has been marked as deprecated for some time in the UI (the title is “Deprecated processes” in the user interface).

–
Jody Garnett

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 at 07:22, Simone Giannecchini <simone.giannecchini@anonymised.com> wrote:

Although I am always eager to remove deprecated stuff I send what
Andrea said, we should not break existing installations.

Maybe in the future we will be wiser with deprecations…

Regards,
Simone Giannecchini

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Simone Giannecchini
@simogeo
Founder/Director

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali
(Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati
“GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email
(il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui
conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo
scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a
cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato
se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential
or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided
by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use
of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the
intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by
mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:53 AM Andrea Aime
<andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

(Writing from mobile) Personally I’ve never learned the new prefixes, but agree the current situation is messy, so a tiepid +1.
Were the old process names deprecated also documentations wise, and examples using them removed?
In other words, was warning given to users?
I think we have kept using the old names in Geosolutions but I’m not sure, hopefully some of my colleagues will chime in.

Also, remember that ticket you opened about startup failures if a process plugin gets removed? What happens on upgrade for existing installations?

Thinking out loud, would it make sense to stop advertising the old process names, but still support them, and log a warning pointing at the new name?

Cheers
Andrea

Il dom 22 lug 2018, 09:49 Ian Turton <ijturton@anonymised.com> ha scritto:

One thing I keep having to explain to users is the reason we have so many duplicated processes in the WPS. Would it be a good idea to remove the deprecated ones before we release 2.14?

As I understand it, there will be no fewer actual processes just fewer prefixes.

I’m happy to do the work if people are happy with the idea.

Ian

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@anonymised.comt
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

8

I would be happy to add an isDeprecated() flag to the API to make this something that can be discovered. The GeoServer security page then can then based the default “enabled” status on if the process factory is deprecated.

···

–
Jody Garnett

9

Hi Jody,
so you’re worried about people using process factories directly? I guess that would do, but believe
it would be equally good to just write a WARN log with an indication of what replaced the process.
Given the dynamic lookup in the middle indeed pure java deprecation won’t do.

I was however worried about WPS users, check the documentation, there is no trace of the new processes (or in other words, at least in the pages I’ve looked at, the old names are being used, haven’t found an example of the new ones):
http://docs.geoserver.org/latest/en/user/services/wps/index.html

So, if you want to proceed with the new naming, I believe it can be done at a few conditions:

  • Update the documentation using only the new process names and leave users at least one cycle to adapt (best two)
  • Make it clear and visible that the processes are deprecated. Warn when they are used in the logs, maybe also add an extra tagline in the process description stating the process is deprecated, and what replaces it, so that a simple user of the WPS can notice by looking at the DescribeProcess and process builder
  • Maybe keep it that way for a cycle, and then make the processes disappear from the UI and capabilities, but allow direct usage of them for a little while longer, and/or add a flag to allow their usage (can be a system variable?)
    To be honest, I still don’t like the new nomeclature, it’s conflict prone, different providers can offer the same process (e.g. buffer) with differences in algorithm, speed, tolerance to topological issues and so on, but with the current approach they would all end up in the geo family (geo:buffer, geo:grass_buffer ?), or else, we’d have differences between what is an inner process (classified by type) and one coming from an external system, e.g., a grass:buffer one.

When evaluating a process knowing who’s providing it (gdal, grass, geotools) is imho more important than knowing from the prefix what are its inputs.
Also working with custom processes so far it has seemed more natural to put them in vendor own “namespace” rather than sliding them in the geo/vec/ras familities (“but these are our processes” is the typical comment).

Also, from another angle… how would you classify the download processes (community module soon to become supported)?
Right now they all fall in the “gs:” family, but if that gets removed, where do they go? Download vector in vec, download raster in ras,
download large map and animation in … what? Or should one create a separate “dwn:” family? I’d go for the latter, the similar bits
in the processes there is the ability to call them asynchronously to support a large download, it’s not for example the cutting ability
that some have… but it feels overkill to me.

Cheers
Andrea

···

Regards, Andrea Aime == GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it ------------------------------------------------------- Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

10

Hi,
I see the discussion stopped, that’s not a good sign.
Look, I’m happy to pitch in provided things are done right, as I too agree the current situation is messy.

If you want to keep the geo/ras/whatever prefixes, I’m happy to do the work to make deprecation more evident (adding warnings in the logs and visible remarks in the DescribeProcess output), provided others do the rest.

If you instead you’re happy going back to the old prefixes and deprecate ((first) and the remove the new ones, I’m asking nothing of you, I’ll do it entirely on my own (but if people want to still help, they are more than welcomed!)

Just let me know?

Cheers
Andrea

···

Regards, Andrea Aime == GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it ------------------------------------------------------- Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

11

I don’t really mind which option we pick, but I prefer going back to the provider style prefixes as it makes more sense to me.

Happy to help you out Andrea

Ian

On Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 13:47 Andrea Aime, <andrea.aime@anonymised.com1268…> wrote:

Hi,
I see the discussion stopped, that’s not a good sign.
Look, I’m happy to pitch in provided things are done right, as I too agree the current situation is messy.

If you want to keep the geo/ras/whatever prefixes, I’m happy to do the work to make deprecation more evident (adding warnings in the logs and visible remarks in the DescribeProcess output), provided others do the rest.

If you instead you’re happy going back to the old prefixes and deprecate ((first) and the remove the new ones, I’m asking nothing of you, I’ll do it entirely on my own (but if people want to still help, they are more than welcomed!)

Just let me know?

Cheers
Andrea

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 4:23 PM Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi Jody,
so you’re worried about people using process factories directly? I guess that would do, but believe
it would be equally good to just write a WARN log with an indication of what replaced the process.
Given the dynamic lookup in the middle indeed pure java deprecation won’t do.

I was however worried about WPS users, check the documentation, there is no trace of the new processes (or in other words, at least in the pages I’ve looked at, the old names are being used, haven’t found an example of the new ones):
http://docs.geoserver.org/latest/en/user/services/wps/index.html

So, if you want to proceed with the new naming, I believe it can be done at a few conditions:

  • Update the documentation using only the new process names and leave users at least one cycle to adapt (best two)
  • Make it clear and visible that the processes are deprecated. Warn when they are used in the logs, maybe also add an extra tagline in the process description stating the process is deprecated, and what replaces it, so that a simple user of the WPS can notice by looking at the DescribeProcess and process builder
  • Maybe keep it that way for a cycle, and then make the processes disappear from the UI and capabilities, but allow direct usage of them for a little while longer, and/or add a flag to allow their usage (can be a system variable?)
    To be honest, I still don’t like the new nomeclature, it’s conflict prone, different providers can offer the same process (e.g. buffer) with differences in algorithm, speed, tolerance to topological issues and so on, but with the current approach they would all end up in the geo family (geo:buffer, geo:grass_buffer ?), or else, we’d have differences between what is an inner process (classified by type) and one coming from an external system, e.g., a grass:buffer one.

When evaluating a process knowing who’s providing it (gdal, grass, geotools) is imho more important than knowing from the prefix what are its inputs.
Also working with custom processes so far it has seemed more natural to put them in vendor own “namespace” rather than sliding them in the geo/vec/ras familities (“but these are our processes” is the typical comment).

Also, from another angle… how would you classify the download processes (community module soon to become supported)?
Right now they all fall in the “gs:” family, but if that gets removed, where do they go? Download vector in vec, download raster in ras,
download large map and animation in … what? Or should one create a separate “dwn:” family? I’d go for the latter, the similar bits
in the processes there is the ability to call them asynchronously to support a large download, it’s not for example the cutting ability
that some have… but it feels overkill to me.

Cheers
Andrea

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 3:29 PM Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com> wrote:

I would be happy to add an isDeprecated() flag to the API to make this something that can be discovered. The GeoServer security page then can then based the default “enabled” status on if the process factory is deprecated.

–
Jody Garnett

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 at 13:55, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

It is deprecated only if one checks process security though, I asked before if it is documented too and/or visible in other ways too?

Cheers
Andrea

Il mar 24 lug 2018, 22:06 Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com> ha scritto:

How about for this release we disable it by default, and it can still be there to enable (for any installations that need more time to migrate).

It has been marked as deprecated for some time in the UI (the title is “Deprecated processes” in the user interface).

–
Jody Garnett

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 at 07:22, Simone Giannecchini <simone.giannecchini@anonymised.com> wrote:

Although I am always eager to remove deprecated stuff I send what
Andrea said, we should not break existing installations.

Maybe in the future we will be wiser with deprecations…

Regards,
Simone Giannecchini

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Simone Giannecchini
@simogeo
Founder/Director

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali
(Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati
“GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email
(il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui
conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo
scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a
cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato
se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential
or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided
by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use
of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the
intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by
mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:53 AM Andrea Aime
<andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

(Writing from mobile) Personally I’ve never learned the new prefixes, but agree the current situation is messy, so a tiepid +1.
Were the old process names deprecated also documentations wise, and examples using them removed?
In other words, was warning given to users?
I think we have kept using the old names in Geosolutions but I’m not sure, hopefully some of my colleagues will chime in.

Also, remember that ticket you opened about startup failures if a process plugin gets removed? What happens on upgrade for existing installations?

Thinking out loud, would it make sense to stop advertising the old process names, but still support them, and log a warning pointing at the new name?

Cheers
Andrea

Il dom 22 lug 2018, 09:49 Ian Turton <ijturton@anonymised.com> ha scritto:

One thing I keep having to explain to users is the reason we have so many duplicated processes in the WPS. Would it be a good idea to remove the deprecated ones before we release 2.14?

As I understand it, there will be no fewer actual processes just fewer prefixes.

I’m happy to do the work if people are happy with the idea.

Ian

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@anonymised.comt
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

–

Regards, Andrea Aime == GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it ------------------------------------------------------- Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

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Regards, Andrea Aime == GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it ------------------------------------------------------- Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

12

I agree prefixes as a crutch for a table of contents like folder structure is not working (does not scale).

I kind of wish we could remove prefixes since they do not add value (either as a indication of technology or as indication of function). We would then have the possibility for naming conflicts of course.

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Jody Garnett

13

I agree prefixes as a crutch for a table of contents like folder structure is not working (does not scale).

You agree… but nobody talked about removing prefixes… in fact, I would consider that a mistake, in a complex installation with multiple providers
how does one tell if the “buffer” process is coming from JTS, GEOS, PostGIS or another vendor specific implementation?

I kind of wish we could remove prefixes since they do not add value (either as a indication of technology or as indication of function). We would then have the possibility for naming conflicts of course.

I cannot disagree more, also, please don’t present your opinions as facts “since they do not add value”), that’s what politicians do, I expect
more out of PSC member in a technical community. Reminded me of this comic I stumbled into the other day:

image.png

Cheers
Andrea

···

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it ------------------------------------------------------- Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

14

Hi,
I checked the “new prefixes” changes, they were made without a proposal, I think they happened along
with the WPS graduation to extension, that would explain it.

Checked about reverting them and found that there is a problem, the processes were all developed as part
of GeoServer, thus all had “gs” prefix, then they were moved to GeoTools, keeping the prefix, and then
were re-classified.

So if we wanted to go “back” to a provider classification scheme now, it would require a third layout, one that
has “gt” prefixes that were never there, and thus we’d have to keep around three classifications… what a mess
(reminds me of that XKCD about standards… https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png )

Ooof… I give up… Ian please do whatever you seem fit, just try to keep backwards compatibility up
(I still offer to help to do that, doing deprecations also in the UI and so on).

Cheers
Andrea

···

Regards, Andrea Aime == GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it ------------------------------------------------------- Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

15

Andrea I am sorry this seems frustrating for both of us, last time we got into this tangle over style publisher I was wrong. In this case I was trying to express my frustration in that using a having a prefix is making nobody happy as we have two intended uses for it. I agree that the path chosen (using prefix to group by topic) is not scaling well as we add more processes.

Thanks for looking into when this change occurred, the context helps.

Lets see if we can find any other groups that have wrestled with this:

  • PyWPS does not show this limitation in their docs or examples

  • ZOO Project - Uses prefixes like “vector-tools.” and “raster-tools.” (mapping to OGR and GDAL respectively) and “v_” (mapping to GRASS).

  • 52North WPS: looks to consider assigning a process identifier as a configuration step, with a ProcessDescription file

OGC has little to add:

  • “WPS 2.0.0” - adds metadata (in addition to title, identifier, abstract) could not find a useful example for metadata
  • “Web Processing Service Best Practices Discussion Paper” - just looks at inputs and outputs
  • “Corrigendum for OpenGIS Implementation Standard Web Processing Service (WPS) 1.0.0” - offers a few clarifications, none around identifier

–
Jody Garnett

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 at 00:21, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 12:53 AM Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com> wrote:

I agree prefixes as a crutch for a table of contents like folder structure is not working (does not scale).

You agree… but nobody talked about removing prefixes… in fact, I would consider that a mistake, in a complex installation with multiple providers
how does one tell if the “buffer” process is coming from JTS, GEOS, PostGIS or another vendor specific implementation?

I kind of wish we could remove prefixes since they do not add value (either as a indication of technology or as indication of function). We would then have the possibility for naming conflicts of course.

I cannot disagree more, also, please don’t present your opinions as facts “since they do not add value”), that’s what politicians do, I expect
more out of PSC member in a technical community. Reminded me of this comic I stumbled into the other day:

image.png

Cheers
Andrea

==

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it ------------------------------------------------------- Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

(attachments)

image.png

16

Again, please don’t report as facts your opinions. As I already stated, I consider not having a prefix at all worse than both
the options previously discussed (by topic, or by provider).

Since you cannot listen/read, proceeding with the discussion is pointless

···

Regards, Andrea Aime == GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it ------------------------------------------------------- Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.