[Geoserver-devel] Keeping the PSC alive and kicking, and changing IRC meeting time

GeoServer GeoServer Developer
1

Hi,
I was wondering if the time is coming for a PSC membership update.
Of the 7 PSC members two have been missing lately, making it harder
to vote on GSIP. I was wondering if changing the meeting time
could improve things, or if inactive members should let new
developer join in. Hard question thought, since looking around
I don't see much non TOPP GeoServer developers that aren't
already in the PSC. Opinions?

About the time, I personally would like to change it so that
it does not fit squarely in the mid of my evening :slight_smile:
I propose to move the meeting time at 19.00 Italian time:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=15&month=7&year=2008&p1=179&p2=215&p3=256&p4=240

Of course this would cut solid poeple from Australia,
but at the same time I feel that if australian people are
to participate seriously, we cannot ask them to be in front
of the computer at 7.00am, and that probably a second meeting
time should be scheduled (if I remember properly Rob A. was
already suggesting that).

And oh, btw, the time change I'm proposing is not going to
be carved into stone, but just stay there until a different
need will move it to another hour.

Cheers
Andrea

2

Andrea and the Geoserver PSC,

I think you've written very diplomatic and pragmatic solution to address a tough problem. As I've moved away from my full-time employment in support of a live geoserver instance, I've found that I'm definitely not able to keep up with the weekly meetings or with the GSIP process in the detail that's needed to serve on the PSC.

Geoserver needs good leadership to get great GSIPs through the process and into the code! Unfortunately, that's just not me right now, so I think it would be wise for me to step down from the geoserver PSC at this point.

I'll still be around, though! But I think I'll be switching to digest delivery, you chatty monkeys.

Oh, and by the way, I think that the GSIP and the proposal voting process that's been worked out in geoserver (and to some extent geotools) is one of the best technical project management processes that I've ever worked with. Kudos to everyone both for evolving/creating it, and also for sticking to it with the rigor and the success that you have.

Keep kicking ass everyone!

--saul

Andrea Aime wrote:

Hi,
I was wondering if the time is coming for a PSC membership update.
Of the 7 PSC members two have been missing lately, making it harder
to vote on GSIP. I was wondering if changing the meeting time
could improve things, or if inactive members should let new
developer join in. Hard question thought, since looking around
I don't see much non TOPP GeoServer developers that aren't
already in the PSC. Opinions?

About the time, I personally would like to change it so that
it does not fit squarely in the mid of my evening :slight_smile:
I propose to move the meeting time at 19.00 Italian time:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=15&month=7&year=2008&p1=179&p2=215&p3=256&p4=240

Of course this would cut solid poeple from Australia,
but at the same time I feel that if australian people are
to participate seriously, we cannot ask them to be in front
of the computer at 7.00am, and that probably a second meeting
time should be scheduled (if I remember properly Rob A. was
already suggesting that).

And oh, btw, the time change I'm proposing is not going to
be carved into stone, but just stay there until a different
need will move it to another hour.

Cheers
Andrea

3

Hi all ... I just would like to reply to the meeting time change
request ... no problem here .... and Saul, could be a solution for you
also the meeting time change in order to make you able to attend at
the meetings?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Saul Farber <sjf8@anonymised.com> wrote:

Andrea and the Geoserver PSC,

I think you've written very diplomatic and pragmatic solution to address
a tough problem. As I've moved away from my full-time employment in
support of a live geoserver instance, I've found that I'm definitely not
able to keep up with the weekly meetings or with the GSIP process in the
detail that's needed to serve on the PSC.

Geoserver needs good leadership to get great GSIPs through the process
and into the code! Unfortunately, that's just not me right now, so I
think it would be wise for me to step down from the geoserver PSC at
this point.

I'll still be around, though! But I think I'll be switching to digest
delivery, you chatty monkeys.

Oh, and by the way, I think that the GSIP and the proposal voting
process that's been worked out in geoserver (and to some extent
geotools) is one of the best technical project management processes that
I've ever worked with. Kudos to everyone both for evolving/creating it,
and also for sticking to it with the rigor and the success that you have.

Keep kicking ass everyone!

--saul

Andrea Aime wrote:

Hi,
I was wondering if the time is coming for a PSC membership update.
Of the 7 PSC members two have been missing lately, making it harder
to vote on GSIP. I was wondering if changing the meeting time
could improve things, or if inactive members should let new
developer join in. Hard question thought, since looking around
I don't see much non TOPP GeoServer developers that aren't
already in the PSC. Opinions?

About the time, I personally would like to change it so that
it does not fit squarely in the mid of my evening :slight_smile:
I propose to move the meeting time at 19.00 Italian time:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=15&month=7&year=2008&p1=179&p2=215&p3=256&p4=240

Of course this would cut solid poeple from Australia,
but at the same time I feel that if australian people are
to participate seriously, we cannot ask them to be in front
of the computer at 7.00am, and that probably a second meeting
time should be scheduled (if I remember properly Rob A. was
already suggesting that).

And oh, btw, the time change I'm proposing is not going to
be carved into stone, but just stay there until a different
need will move it to another hour.

Cheers
Andrea

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--
-------------------------------------------------------
Eng. Alessio Fabiani
Vice-President /CTO GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Carignoni 51
55041 Camaiore (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584983027
fax: +39 0584983027
mob: +39 349 8227000

http://www.geo-solutions.it

-------------------------------------------------------

4

I have been on the road and missed several meetings now; changing a time would not make a difference for that :frowning:

I agree that the two meeting times is the kindest way to accommodate our spread around the globe; the second meeting carying on the agenda of the first etc...

As for voting on GSIP topics; perhaps this could gradually be moved into email threads? I occasionally find it hard to think on me feet during an IRC meeting; and perhaps I am out of the loop in terms of seeing email asking me to check out an GSIP before the meeting time?

Checking the logs for while I was away I see several out standing issues to vote on - fun!
Jody

Refractions is being well served by the GeoServer procedures and PSC; the WPS project has been able to work efficiently etc...
Jody

Andrea Aime wrote:

Hi,
I was wondering if the time is coming for a PSC membership update.
Of the 7 PSC members two have been missing lately, making it harder
to vote on GSIP. I was wondering if changing the meeting time
could improve things, or if inactive members should let new
developer join in. Hard question thought, since looking around
I don't see much non TOPP GeoServer developers that aren't
already in the PSC. Opinions?

About the time, I personally would like to change it so that
it does not fit squarely in the mid of my evening :slight_smile:
I propose to move the meeting time at 19.00 Italian time:
The World Clock Meeting Planner - Results

Of course this would cut solid poeple from Australia,
but at the same time I feel that if australian people are
to participate seriously, we cannot ask them to be in front
of the computer at 7.00am, and that probably a second meeting
time should be scheduled (if I remember properly Rob A. was
already suggesting that).

And oh, btw, the time change I'm proposing is not going to
be carved into stone, but just stay there until a different
need will move it to another hour.

Cheers
Andrea

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5

Jody Garnett ha scritto:

I have been on the road and missed several meetings now; changing a time would not make a difference for that :frowning:

Ok... but I still _personally_ like the new meeting time better since it
does not force me to work up to 22.00. So can anybody express an opinion
on it? :wink:

Cheers
Andrea

6

Well I personally like Andrea being happy; so sure let us go earlier. However I think as the Australian's get up to speed we will need to go with a two meeting system again; or perhaps tone the meetings down to a development meeting; and save policy and improvement proposals for email.

Jody

Jody Garnett ha scritto:

I have been on the road and missed several meetings now; changing a time would not make a difference for that :frowning:

Ok... but I still _personally_ like the new meeting time better since it
does not force me to work up to 22.00. So can anybody express an opinion
on it? :wink:

Cheers
Andrea

7

Jody Garnett ha scritto:

Well I personally like Andrea being happy; so sure let us go earlier. However I think as the Australian's get up to speed we will need to go with a two meeting system again; or perhaps tone the meetings down to a development meeting; and save policy and improvement proposals for email.

Probably both of them. IRC is good for discussion, and we want to log the results. Sure, the GeoServer channel is now logged (http://irc.geoserver.org/log/) but who's going to read all of the
logs? A couple specific times when hard questions get discussed
and logged for others to read are still good.

Using the ml for voting, not sure. For sure a proposal should not
be presented and voted in the same meeting, because it leaves no
time for discussion and thinking, but voting during the meeting
has the distinctive advantage that people have to vote right there,
so we are sure voting occurs, with the mail storm we have on the
two ml, someone may loose the thread. The ml also has the nasty
side effect of mixing votes and more discussion togheter.

A separate ml for GSIP would be clearer, but it would be one more darned
list to which everybody interested in GeoServer development has
to be subscribed. At least the discussion should be kept on geoserver-devel... do we want a ml setup only for voting?

Cheers
Andrea

8

+1 for the earlier meeting time.

Andrea Aime wrote:

Hi,
I was wondering if the time is coming for a PSC membership update.
Of the 7 PSC members two have been missing lately, making it harder
to vote on GSIP. I was wondering if changing the meeting time
could improve things, or if inactive members should let new
developer join in. Hard question thought, since looking around
I don't see much non TOPP GeoServer developers that aren't
already in the PSC. Opinions?

About the time, I personally would like to change it so that
it does not fit squarely in the mid of my evening :slight_smile:
I propose to move the meeting time at 19.00 Italian time:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=15&month=7&year=2008&p1=179&p2=215&p3=256&p4=240

Of course this would cut solid poeple from Australia,
but at the same time I feel that if australian people are
to participate seriously, we cannot ask them to be in front
of the computer at 7.00am, and that probably a second meeting
time should be scheduled (if I remember properly Rob A. was
already suggesting that).

And oh, btw, the time change I'm proposing is not going to
be carved into stone, but just stay there until a different
need will move it to another hour.

Cheers
Andrea

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9

We have this situation now for geotools - with the admin list; so far it has not made much difference to the procedure process. Why not let it run for 6 months and see if it makes a difference; if you like the result we can do the same thing for geoserver.

Jody

A separate ml for GSIP would be clearer, but it would be one more darned
list to which everybody interested in GeoServer development has
to be subscribed. At least the discussion should be kept on geoserver-devel... do we want a ml setup only for voting?

Cheers
Andrea

10

II’ll let you guys sort it out. Two meetings might work, or possibly more targetted meetings around specific GSIPs?

Apropos of the GSIPs, I think we need to pull out the active voting requirements from the bag of “being discussed” stuff, so that there is a greater transparency.

Rob

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Andrea Aime <aaime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Jody Garnett ha scritto:

I have been on the road and missed several meetings now; changing a time would not make a difference for that :frowning:

Ok… but I still personally like the new meeting time better since it
does not force me to work up to 22.00. So can anybody express an opinion
on it? :wink:

Cheers
Andrea

11

Rob Atkinson ha scritto:

II'll let you guys sort it out. Two meetings might work, or possibly more targetted meetings around specific GSIPs?

Apropos of the GSIPs, I think we need to pull out the active voting requirements from the bag of "being discussed" stuff, so that there is a greater transparency.

As in, having a section for "voting now" proposals? Yeah, it makes
sense, especially if we move voting to the ml

Cheers
Andrea

12

Ciao guys,
sorry to join the discussion this late but I have been away for while
(vacation and then work).
I would like to follow the GeoServer IRC meetings myself, but so far I
have been mostly unable due to the fact that usually on Tue night I am
not available for personal reasons.
Since we are talking about changing the meeting time, I am wondering
if it could possible/feasible to move the meeting to Wed 17:00 GMT or
to Tue 16:00 - 16:30 which would work great for me.

Ciao,
Simone.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:17 PM, Andrea Aime <aaime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi,
I was wondering if the time is coming for a PSC membership update.
Of the 7 PSC members two have been missing lately, making it harder
to vote on GSIP. I was wondering if changing the meeting time
could improve things, or if inactive members should let new
developer join in. Hard question thought, since looking around
I don't see much non TOPP GeoServer developers that aren't
already in the PSC. Opinions?

About the time, I personally would like to change it so that
it does not fit squarely in the mid of my evening :slight_smile:
I propose to move the meeting time at 19.00 Italian time:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=15&month=7&year=2008&p1=179&p2=215&p3=256&p4=240

Of course this would cut solid poeple from Australia,
but at the same time I feel that if australian people are
to participate seriously, we cannot ask them to be in front
of the computer at 7.00am, and that probably a second meeting
time should be scheduled (if I remember properly Rob A. was
already suggesting that).

And oh, btw, the time change I'm proposing is not going to
be carved into stone, but just stay there until a different
need will move it to another hour.

Cheers
Andrea

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
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_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
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--
-------------------------------------------------------
Eng. Simone Giannecchini
President /CEO GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Carignoni 51
55041 Camaiore (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584983027
fax: +39 0584983027
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it

-------------------------------------------------------

13

Ciao Simone,

it would be good for me also to have the GeoServer meeting at Tue ...
what do other people think about?

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Simone Giannecchini <simboss1@anonymised.com> wrote:

Ciao guys,
sorry to join the discussion this late but I have been away for while
(vacation and then work).
I would like to follow the GeoServer IRC meetings myself, but so far I
have been mostly unable due to the fact that usually on Tue night I am
not available for personal reasons.
Since we are talking about changing the meeting time, I am wondering
if it could possible/feasible to move the meeting to Wed 17:00 GMT or
to Tue 16:00 - 16:30 which would work great for me.

Ciao,
Simone.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:17 PM, Andrea Aime <aaime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi,
I was wondering if the time is coming for a PSC membership update.
Of the 7 PSC members two have been missing lately, making it harder
to vote on GSIP. I was wondering if changing the meeting time
could improve things, or if inactive members should let new
developer join in. Hard question thought, since looking around
I don't see much non TOPP GeoServer developers that aren't
already in the PSC. Opinions?

About the time, I personally would like to change it so that
it does not fit squarely in the mid of my evening :slight_smile:
I propose to move the meeting time at 19.00 Italian time:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=15&month=7&year=2008&p1=179&p2=215&p3=256&p4=240

Of course this would cut solid poeple from Australia,
but at the same time I feel that if australian people are
to participate seriously, we cannot ask them to be in front
of the computer at 7.00am, and that probably a second meeting
time should be scheduled (if I remember properly Rob A. was
already suggesting that).

And oh, btw, the time change I'm proposing is not going to
be carved into stone, but just stay there until a different
need will move it to another hour.

Cheers
Andrea

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
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_______________________________________________
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Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Eng. Simone Giannecchini
President /CEO GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Carignoni 51
55041 Camaiore (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584983027
fax: +39 0584983027
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it

-------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Eng. Alessio Fabiani
Vice-President /CTO GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Carignoni 51
55041 Camaiore (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584983027
fax: +39 0584983027
mob: +39 349 8227000

http://www.geo-solutions.it

-------------------------------------------------------

14

Ciao all,

chiming in late due to vacation too.

I seem to remember aaime can't make it on Wednesday, but Tuesday 16:00 Italy
time may work well though.

I'm fine either way, since it catches me up around noon now, so the ones we'd
need to be kind with are the ones in Europe.

Anyways, l'd say lets keep it as is at least till next week so andrea can
chime in?

Cheers,

Gabriel

On Tuesday 22 July 2008 01:59:23 pm Alessio Fabiani wrote:

Ciao Simone,

it would be good for me also to have the GeoServer meeting at Tue ...
what do other people think about?

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Simone Giannecchini <simboss1@anonymised.com>

wrote:

> Ciao guys,
> sorry to join the discussion this late but I have been away for while
> (vacation and then work).
> I would like to follow the GeoServer IRC meetings myself, but so far I
> have been mostly unable due to the fact that usually on Tue night I am
> not available for personal reasons.
> Since we are talking about changing the meeting time, I am wondering
> if it could possible/feasible to move the meeting to Wed 17:00 GMT or
> to Tue 16:00 - 16:30 which would work great for me.
>
> Ciao,
> Simone.
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:17 PM, Andrea Aime <aaime@anonymised.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I was wondering if the time is coming for a PSC membership update.
>> Of the 7 PSC members two have been missing lately, making it harder
>> to vote on GSIP. I was wondering if changing the meeting time
>> could improve things, or if inactive members should let new
>> developer join in. Hard question thought, since looking around
>> I don't see much non TOPP GeoServer developers that aren't
>> already in the PSC. Opinions?
>>
>> About the time, I personally would like to change it so that
>> it does not fit squarely in the mid of my evening :slight_smile:
>> I propose to move the meeting time at 19.00 Italian time:
>> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=15&month=7&ye
>>ar=2008&p1=179&p2=215&p3=256&p4=240
>>
>> Of course this would cut solid poeple from Australia,
>> but at the same time I feel that if australian people are
>> to participate seriously, we cannot ask them to be in front
>> of the computer at 7.00am, and that probably a second meeting
>> time should be scheduled (if I remember properly Rob A. was
>> already suggesting that).
>>
>> And oh, btw, the time change I'm proposing is not going to
>> be carved into stone, but just stay there until a different
>> need will move it to another hour.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Andrea
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
>> challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK &
>> win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event
>> anywhere in the world
>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Geoserver-devel mailing list
>> Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Eng. Simone Giannecchini
> President /CEO GeoSolutions S.A.S.
> Via Carignoni 51
> 55041 Camaiore (LU)
> Italy
>
> phone: +39 0584983027
> fax: +39 0584983027
> mob: +39 333 8128928
>
>
> http://www.geo-solutions.it
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK &
> win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event
> anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Geoserver-devel mailing list
> Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

15

Gabriel,
note that I proposed times using GMT (italy -2 then) !
I think that 16:00 italian time would be too early for canada (ciao Jody!).

In order to recap, my proposals are as follows:

Tue 16:00 GMT time
Wed 16:00 GMT time
Wed 17:00 GMT time.

Waiting 'till aaime comes back is not a problem for me.

Ciao,
Simone.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Gabriel Roldán <groldan@anonymised.com> wrote:

Ciao all,

chiming in late due to vacation too.

I seem to remember aaime can't make it on Wednesday, but Tuesday 16:00 Italy
time may work well though.

I'm fine either way, since it catches me up around noon now, so the ones we'd
need to be kind with are the ones in Europe.

Anyways, l'd say lets keep it as is at least till next week so andrea can
chime in?

Cheers,

Gabriel

On Tuesday 22 July 2008 01:59:23 pm Alessio Fabiani wrote:

Ciao Simone,

it would be good for me also to have the GeoServer meeting at Tue ...
what do other people think about?

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Simone Giannecchini <simboss1@anonymised.com>

wrote:

> Ciao guys,
> sorry to join the discussion this late but I have been away for while
> (vacation and then work).
> I would like to follow the GeoServer IRC meetings myself, but so far I
> have been mostly unable due to the fact that usually on Tue night I am
> not available for personal reasons.
> Since we are talking about changing the meeting time, I am wondering
> if it could possible/feasible to move the meeting to Wed 17:00 GMT or
> to Tue 16:00 - 16:30 which would work great for me.
>
> Ciao,
> Simone.
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:17 PM, Andrea Aime <aaime@anonymised.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I was wondering if the time is coming for a PSC membership update.
>> Of the 7 PSC members two have been missing lately, making it harder
>> to vote on GSIP. I was wondering if changing the meeting time
>> could improve things, or if inactive members should let new
>> developer join in. Hard question thought, since looking around
>> I don't see much non TOPP GeoServer developers that aren't
>> already in the PSC. Opinions?
>>
>> About the time, I personally would like to change it so that
>> it does not fit squarely in the mid of my evening :slight_smile:
>> I propose to move the meeting time at 19.00 Italian time:
>> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=15&month=7&ye
>>ar=2008&p1=179&p2=215&p3=256&p4=240
>>
>> Of course this would cut solid poeple from Australia,
>> but at the same time I feel that if australian people are
>> to participate seriously, we cannot ask them to be in front
>> of the computer at 7.00am, and that probably a second meeting
>> time should be scheduled (if I remember properly Rob A. was
>> already suggesting that).
>>
>> And oh, btw, the time change I'm proposing is not going to
>> be carved into stone, but just stay there until a different
>> need will move it to another hour.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Andrea
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
>> challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK &
>> win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event
>> anywhere in the world
>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Geoserver-devel mailing list
>> Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Eng. Simone Giannecchini
> President /CEO GeoSolutions S.A.S.
> Via Carignoni 51
> 55041 Camaiore (LU)
> Italy
>
> phone: +39 0584983027
> fax: +39 0584983027
> mob: +39 333 8128928
>
>
> http://www.geo-solutions.it
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> _______________________________________________
> Geoserver-devel mailing list
> Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Eng. Simone Giannecchini
President /CEO GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Carignoni 51
55041 Camaiore (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584983027
fax: +39 0584983027
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it

-------------------------------------------------------