[Geoserver-devel] [OSGeo-Standards] OGC Certification of OSGeo Projects [was Re: Follow up from OSGeo board meeting] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Hi all,
not sure if you’re following this thread on the OSGeo mailing lists.
Maybe an occasion to renew our official OGC certifications?

Cheers
Andrea

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Luis Bermudez <lbermudez@anonymised.com>
Date: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Standards] OGC Certification of OSGeo Projects [was Re: Follow up from OSGeo board meeting] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
To: Bruce Bannerman <B.Bannerman@anonymised.com>
Cc: Mark Reichardt <mreichardt@anonymised.com…807…>, “standards@anonymised.com…1232…” <standards@anonymised.com…1232…>

Hi Bruce

It is in OGC’s interests to have a range of open source implementations that are certified to act as reference implementations and to guide others on what is possible.

Fully Agree. This is very important for OGC standards and in particular to the OGC Compliance Program. More applications we have passing the tests makes our standards stronger.

Both the CITE P&P [1] and the MoU with OSGeo [2] provide incentives for reference implementations.
Let me know which tests and which applications to start the process to get them certified.

[1] http://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/49237
[2] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/MoU_OGC

  • Luis

Luis Bermudez, Ph.D.
Director Compliance Program
Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC)
The OGC: Making Location Count

Skype: bermudez_luis
Twitter: @berdez
Tel: +1 301 760 7323
http://www.opengeospatial.org/ogc/organization/staff/lbermudez

On Oct 30, 2013, at 6:40 PM, Bruce Bannerman <B.Bannerman@anonymised.com> wrote:

Mark, Luis,

Please see my question to Carl below.

As per below, is there anything that OGC can do to assist OSGeo Projects with the certification process?

Bruce

From: Carl Reed <creed@anonymised.com>
Organization: OGC
Date: Thursday, 31 October 2013 9:26 AM
To: Bruce Bannerman <B.Bannerman@anonymised.com>
Cc: “standards@anonymised.com” <standards@anonymised.com>, George Percivall <gpercivall@anonymised.com>
Subject: Re: OGC Certification of OSGeo Projects [was Re: [OSGeo-Standards] Follow up from OSGeo board meeting] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Bruce -

Thanks for the email. I know that the CITE fee structure is being discussed. However, I do not know the details as I am not part of that discussion. Luis Bermudez and Mark Reichardt can provide more up to date information on CITE fees. Sorry that I cannot be more helpful.

Cheers

Carl

From: Bruce Bannerman
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 4:09 PM
To: Carl Reed
Cc: standards@anonymised.com ; George Percivall
Subject: OGC Certification of OSGeo Projects [was Re: [OSGeo-Standards] Follow up from OSGeo board meeting] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Carl,

Wearing both my OSGeo and OGC TC hats, is there anything that OGC can do to assist open source projects get certified, e.g. waive certification fees?

Most projects do not have much in the way of funds behind them. They mainly have just volunteer time and effort.

It is in OGC’s interests to have a range of open source implementations that are certified to act as reference implementations and to guide others on what is possible.

As an OGC implementing organisation that utilises open source software, we’d like to see the projects that we use certified, however we are not in a position to fund the certification process for them.

Bruce

From: Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com>
Date: Wednesday, 30 October 2013 10:50 PM
To: Even Rouault <even.rouault@anonymised.com>
Cc: “standards@anonymised.com” <standards@anonymised.com>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Standards] Follow up from OSGeo board meeting

Regarding certification, I went to read a bit on OGC site and found that :
http://www.opengeospatial.org/compliance#trademark

So the fee is not a one time thing, but a yearly one, and depends on the
“organization” revenue. This makes me wonder on how it could translate for our
community projects, let’s take MapServer as an example. What is the
organization behind MapServer : OSGeo, any company offering services around
MapServer… ?

OGC licencing fee scheme seems to be designed for companies that have a
distribution monopoly on the product being certified.
If certification fees would be waived for the OSGeo project iself, what would
it mean for companies offering services around it : could they reuse the
sticker on their web site, or should they pay the fee ?

Just so, so we should probably take down our GeoServer sticker - since it does not represent testing of the bundle we currently distribute.

As for your actual question - you may have to consider the difference between project and product.

The GeoServer community offers a download (i.e. a product) which could be certified by OSGeo (perhaps at a reduced rate depending on how well the board negotiates).

The same component is actually included in several other products:

  • Boundless OpenGeo Suite
  • GeoSolutions GeoServer Enterprise
  • OSGeo GeoNetwork Open Source

As long as it is not the community doing the packaging, the above products would not get the sticker. If they are using the component as published by the community (say out of a maven repository) a downstream project (i.e. GeoNetwork) or distribution (OSGeo Live) should be able to indicate an GeoServer as an OGC certified component (i.e. it has passed testing).

Still we are down in the weeds here - the goal is to provide a motivation for projects to join OSGeo, being in position to have their releases certified would be a good win. Even just being able to mark projects that have done some testing is a decent win. Can you think of any others?

  1. Recognise testing beyond that the OGC is in position to offer, for
    example Client certification is not available.

This testing can probably only be offered against OSGeo projects such as
GeoServer and MapServer, and can be used to promote that “cross project
interoperability” we are supposed to be focusing on.

Client certification is indeed a difficult topic. You can have a WFS client that
works fine when being used with a WFS server that delivers simple features
(“flat” organization of attributes), but that won’t be able to understand
complex features ( e.g. Inspire schemas ). This is not just a theoretical
example :wink:

Hence the sticker indicating what the client was tested with. I am not aware of any general purpose open source clients for complex features, simply nobody has been willing to pay for them :smiley:

Jody


Standards mailing list
Standards@anonymised.com
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/standards

==
Our support, Your Success! Visit http://opensdi.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime

@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it


Yeah I started that thread, mostly to try and figure out what OSGeo could do to attract projects and provide value.

The relationship with OGC is an opportunity to help projects with certification. I am also going to see if we can make a “geoserver” sticker that projects that test against GeoServer can use. It is my aim to set this kind of thing up at the OSGeo level, rather then something geoserver-devel does.

I am hoping for a few more ideas. Several projects have benefited from code sprints - thus far GeoTools and GeoServer have not expressed interest in one.

···

Jody Garnett

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 4:20 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi all,
not sure if you’re following this thread on the OSGeo mailing lists.
Maybe an occasion to renew our official OGC certifications?

Cheers
Andrea

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Luis Bermudez <lbermudez@anonymised.com>
Date: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Standards] OGC Certification of OSGeo Projects [was Re: Follow up from OSGeo board meeting] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
To: Bruce Bannerman <B.Bannerman@anonymised.com>

Cc: Mark Reichardt <mreichardt@anonymised.com>, “standards@anonymised.com” <standards@anonymised.com>

Hi Bruce

It is in OGC’s interests to have a range of open source implementations that are certified to act as reference implementations and to guide others on what is possible.

Fully Agree. This is very important for OGC standards and in particular to the OGC Compliance Program. More applications we have passing the tests makes our standards stronger.

Both the CITE P&P [1] and the MoU with OSGeo [2] provide incentives for reference implementations.
Let me know which tests and which applications to start the process to get them certified.

[1] http://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/49237
[2] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/MoU_OGC

  • Luis

Luis Bermudez, Ph.D.
Director Compliance Program
Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC)
The OGC: Making Location Count

Skype: bermudez_luis
Twitter: @berdez
Tel: +1 301 760 7323
http://www.opengeospatial.org/ogc/organization/staff/lbermudez

On Oct 30, 2013, at 6:40 PM, Bruce Bannerman <B.Bannerman@anonymised.com> wrote:

Mark, Luis,

Please see my question to Carl below.

As per below, is there anything that OGC can do to assist OSGeo Projects with the certification process?

Bruce

From: Carl Reed <creed@anonymised.com>
Organization: OGC
Date: Thursday, 31 October 2013 9:26 AM
To: Bruce Bannerman <B.Bannerman@anonymised.com>
Cc: “standards@anonymised.com” <standards@anonymised.com>, George Percivall <gpercivall@anonymised.com>
Subject: Re: OGC Certification of OSGeo Projects [was Re: [OSGeo-Standards] Follow up from OSGeo board meeting] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Bruce -

Thanks for the email. I know that the CITE fee structure is being discussed. However, I do not know the details as I am not part of that discussion. Luis Bermudez and Mark Reichardt can provide more up to date information on CITE fees. Sorry that I cannot be more helpful.

Cheers

Carl

From: Bruce Bannerman
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 4:09 PM
To: Carl Reed
Cc: standards@anonymised.com ; George Percivall
Subject: OGC Certification of OSGeo Projects [was Re: [OSGeo-Standards] Follow up from OSGeo board meeting] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Carl,

Wearing both my OSGeo and OGC TC hats, is there anything that OGC can do to assist open source projects get certified, e.g. waive certification fees?

Most projects do not have much in the way of funds behind them. They mainly have just volunteer time and effort.

It is in OGC’s interests to have a range of open source implementations that are certified to act as reference implementations and to guide others on what is possible.

As an OGC implementing organisation that utilises open source software, we’d like to see the projects that we use certified, however we are not in a position to fund the certification process for them.

Bruce

From: Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com>
Date: Wednesday, 30 October 2013 10:50 PM
To: Even Rouault <even.rouault@anonymised.com>
Cc: “standards@anonymised.com” <standards@anonymised.com>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Standards] Follow up from OSGeo board meeting

Regarding certification, I went to read a bit on OGC site and found that :
http://www.opengeospatial.org/compliance#trademark

So the fee is not a one time thing, but a yearly one, and depends on the
“organization” revenue. This makes me wonder on how it could translate for our
community projects, let’s take MapServer as an example. What is the
organization behind MapServer : OSGeo, any company offering services around
MapServer… ?

OGC licencing fee scheme seems to be designed for companies that have a
distribution monopoly on the product being certified.
If certification fees would be waived for the OSGeo project iself, what would
it mean for companies offering services around it : could they reuse the
sticker on their web site, or should they pay the fee ?

Just so, so we should probably take down our GeoServer sticker - since it does not represent testing of the bundle we currently distribute.

As for your actual question - you may have to consider the difference between project and product.

The GeoServer community offers a download (i.e. a product) which could be certified by OSGeo (perhaps at a reduced rate depending on how well the board negotiates).

The same component is actually included in several other products:

  • Boundless OpenGeo Suite
  • GeoSolutions GeoServer Enterprise
  • OSGeo GeoNetwork Open Source

As long as it is not the community doing the packaging, the above products would not get the sticker. If they are using the component as published by the community (say out of a maven repository) a downstream project (i.e. GeoNetwork) or distribution (OSGeo Live) should be able to indicate an GeoServer as an OGC certified component (i.e. it has passed testing).

Still we are down in the weeds here - the goal is to provide a motivation for projects to join OSGeo, being in position to have their releases certified would be a good win. Even just being able to mark projects that have done some testing is a decent win. Can you think of any others?

  1. Recognise testing beyond that the OGC is in position to offer, for
    example Client certification is not available.

This testing can probably only be offered against OSGeo projects such as
GeoServer and MapServer, and can be used to promote that “cross project
interoperability” we are supposed to be focusing on.

Client certification is indeed a difficult topic. You can have a WFS client that
works fine when being used with a WFS server that delivers simple features
(“flat” organization of attributes), but that won’t be able to understand
complex features ( e.g. Inspire schemas ). This is not just a theoretical
example :wink:

Hence the sticker indicating what the client was tested with. I am not aware of any general purpose open source clients for complex features, simply nobody has been willing to pay for them :smiley:

Jody


Standards mailing list
Standards@anonymised.com…
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/standards

==
Our support, Your Success! Visit http://opensdi.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime

@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it



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