1) GSIP#1
2) GSIP#2
3) FOSS Plans
Actions:
- GSIP#1 voted on, page contains results
- GSIP#2 voted on, page contains results
- FOSS Plans - bother Chris Holems
- instructions for submitting GSIP not following writing guidelines, page modified with a bad email example
- updating Proposal template to make use of actual fields
Questions for next meeting:
- revised the pages Chris Holmes added, process was a bit flawed as we needed to hunt down the specific modifications.
- pages modified please review, specifically consider removing the box marked "snap decisions" (a formal process for an informal non tracked decision seems wrong)
[9:20:45 AM] Jody Garn... says: okay I am going to finally read over the proposal chris made ...
[9:34:37 AM] Jody Garn... says: Well so far only Rob is around and he is quiet, a meeting of one ... at least i can stay on agenda.
[9:35:19 AM] * Jody Garnett has changed the chat topic to "1) GSIP $1 2) GSIP#2 3) FOSS Plans"
[9:35:50 AM] Jody Garn... says: First of all reviewing: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOSDEV/0+Project+Steering+Committee
[9:36:38 AM] Jody Garn... says: one problem is the GEOSDEV space, it is not hooked up so this policy will not be visible. I think we need to hack at the website a bit 
[9:40:44 AM] Jody Garn... says: Okay this is a bit of a pain, cholmes email says he changed something because it was "missing a bit" and to read "closly"...
[9:41:08 AM] Jody Garn... says: (I can tell he has been at it as there is much larger blocks of text ...)
[9:42:24 AM] Rob Atkin... says: Do you see any problems with it?
[9:42:38 AM] Jody Garn... says: well I am trying to see what has changed ...
[9:42:59 AM] Jody Garn... says: The When not to use the GSIP looks suspect - aka large block of text with no bullets. Not justins style.
[9:43:08 AM] Rob Atkin... says: As a bit of a newbie to PSC land, I'm looking for guidance - practice suporting policy is better than the most beautiful policy
[9:43:28 AM] Jody Garn... says: I think I will rewrite it to have point form ...
[9:44:12 AM] Jody Garn... says: Note he has some more pages to check:
[9:44:13 AM] Jody Garn... says: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GeoServer+Improvement+Proposals
[9:44:24 AM] Jody Garn... says: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOSDEV/How+to+make+a+GeoServer+Improvement+Proposal
[9:49:14 AM] Jody Garn... says: Okay ... robA ping?
[9:49:23 AM] Jody Garn... says: This part is messing with me - For all decisions that are not official GSIP proposals, those 'present' (those in the IRC meeting or who bother to respond to an email within 4 days) are given the power to vote and decide an issue. The same voting procedures are used, but any vote that meets a -1 from any party present (even a new user), should go to a GSIP.
[9:49:23 AM] Rob Atkin... says: I dont see a real problem - presumably we can vote to amend things later?
[9:49:25 AM] Alessio Fa... says: hi all, sorry for the delay
[9:49:41 AM] Jody Garn... says: bascially he is trying to say "consensus" (hope I spelled that right)
[9:49:51 AM] Rob Atkin... says: perfick.
[9:49:53 AM] Jody Garn... says: and then tries to let people on the email list vote,
[9:50:10 AM] Jody Garn... says: but it amounts to a veto - ie any -1 vote demands a GSIP be written.
[9:50:27 AM] Jody Garn... says: I am going to commit - I have moved his words into bullet points so we can make sense of them.
[9:50:36 AM] Jody Garn... says: commit = save the page
[9:50:49 AM] Jody Garn... says: (I am sorry I did not do this on email list, lets make up for it now)
[9:50:53 AM] Rob Atkin... says: yep - but a GSIP can survive a -1.
[9:51:47 AM] Jody Garn... says: So this heading should not be under "when not to use the GSIP"
[9:51:59 AM] Rob Atkin... says: I think maybe the question should be posed - will this affect others (either technical direction or an opportunity to contribute?)
[9:52:03 AM] Jody Garn... says: it should be about when GSIP is needed ... or concensus or something.
[9:52:15 AM] Rob Atkin... says: Ah - OK
[9:52:28 AM] Jody Garn... says: (if you refresh the page you should see the bullet list now under when not to use the GSIP)
[9:52:45 AM] Jody Garn... says: robA I like you phrasing as a Q:
[9:53:27 AM] Jody Garn... says: See I am happy with "For all decisions that are not official GSIP proposals, those 'present' (those in the IRC meeting or who bother to respond to an email within 4 days) are given the power to vote and decide an issue. The same voting procedures are used, but any vote that meets a -1 from any party present (even a new user), should go to a GSIP. "
[9:53:34 AM] Jody Garn... says: sorry cut and paste failed me:
[9:53:53 AM] Rob Atkin... says: OK - so heading is wrong...
[9:53:56 AM] Jody Garn... says: I am happy with the first sentence ...
[9:54:14 AM] Jody Garn... says: I do not need the -1 or 4 days thing.
[9:54:22 AM] Rob Atkin... says: I prefer
[9:54:25 AM] Jody Garn... says: I am happy with consult the development list or raise in an IRC meeting.
[9:55:31 AM] Jody Garn... says: tempted to make a new category of "Snap Decisions", aka the IRC or vote thing, where -1 makes a GSIP required. But really consulting the community is what we are we want. If there are any questions then a formal proposal is needed.
[9:55:33 AM] Rob Atkin... says: "words failing me..."
[9:55:44 AM] Jody Garn... says: try rob 
[9:55:51 AM] Jody Garn... says: (words do not often fail rob)
[9:56:23 AM] Alessio Fa... says: sorry guys, just a question, but the GSIP #1 should be closed, am I wrong?
[9:57:18 AM] Rob Atkin... says: If a proposal has the potential to affect backwards compatibility or the future direction of any core module of the code base the n a GSIP should be issued to allow the community to comment and become involved.
[9:57:41 AM] Jody Garn... says: You are probably right 
[9:57:51 AM] Jody Garn... says: we should of done this on email and voted by now, we fail as a PSC
[9:58:31 AM] Jody Garn... says: (sigh sorry guys I was busy, if you have already voted I am wasting your time)
[9:58:50 AM] Jody Garn... says: highlighted the problem paragraph as "Snap Decisions" and would like it removed.
[9:58:55 AM] Rob Atkin... says: We need a PSC secretary then - some one to canvas votes and send a deadline reminder, and hold official count.
[9:59:19 AM] Jody Garn... says: um, I think the point of those 7 days is the prevent that ... if we fail to vote it is like a 0 or something ...
[10:00:10 AM] Jody Garn... says: here is the other change - Dissolution of PSC at the bottom
[10:00:10 AM] Rob Atki... says: Yeah well, seems like a pretty minimal overhead. I know it would help me.
[10:00:22 AM] Jody Gar... says: TOPP reserves the right to take back active control if the PSC does not work.
[10:00:32 AM] Jody Gar... says: I have no problem with this.
[10:00:55 AM] Rob Atki... says: Actually, it is based purely on PSC failing to renew numbers..
[10:01:19 AM] Rob Atki... says: I dont havbe a problem - lets get on with it.
[10:01:33 AM] Rob Atki... says: +1 from me.
[10:01:59 AM] Jody Gar... says: um I have a problem with the snap decision, I would like the next meeting to remove that paragraph, and then I am cool.
[10:02:08 AM] Rob Atki... says: (actually its the rest of the community whose votes should count, and I hear "no object to unamimous consent" )
[10:02:17 AM] Jody Gar... says: I just do not think it is thought out, having a formal process for an informal non tracked decision.
[10:02:48 AM] Jody Gar... says: Chris next page is: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOSDEV/How+to+make+a+GeoServer+Improvement+Proposal
[10:03:00 AM] Rob Atki... says: Yeah - well with the PSC in place, we can then put forward processes...
[10:03:32 AM] Jody Gar... says: Okay this page is "Wrong", needs an example for the How do I make a GSIP
[10:03:53 AM] Jody Gar... says: the actual content talks about a bunch of different things ... actually has a Q&A FAQ kind of thing going on ....
[10:04:12 AM] Jody Gar... says: want to see this with the example up top, and some Q&A for more details at the bottom....
[10:04:26 AM] Jody Gar... says: (I will hack this up now), RobA can you continue with the meeting.
[10:04:43 AM] Jody Gar... says: Note: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GSIP+1+-+Project+Steering+Committee+formation
[10:04:47 AM] Jody Gar... says: is what is being voted on.
[10:05:09 AM] Jody Gar... says: And I concur:
[10:05:12 AM] Jody Gar... says: +1 jody
[10:05:22 AM] Jody Gar... says: 2) GSIP#2
[10:05:31 AM] Alessio F... says: +1 Alessio
[10:05:53 AM] Alessio F... says: both for GSIP #1 and #2
[10:05:57 AM] Jody Gar... says: (has anyone seen votes go out via email, we may have enough to pass the motion)
[10:06:14 AM] Jody Gar... says: I would like to think about #2 for a moment ....
[10:06:18 AM] Alessio F... says: not for the #1
[10:06:48 AM] Rob Atki... says: Havebnt seen any votes.
[10:07:03 AM] Jody Gar... says: for the code formatting, I would of been happier with specifics - but I understand that the proposal needs to go ahead before this becomes worthwhile.
[10:07:12 AM] Jody Gar... says: +1 Jody (and looking forward to it)
[10:07:37 AM] Rob Atki... says: Presuming voting means - if it works then we will adopt it. We need a tested mechanism to actually adopt it?
[10:07:41 AM] Jody Gar... says: Rob do you have any thoughs on the code formatting proposal?
[10:07:48 AM] Rob Atki... says: +1 for me on the concept.
[10:07:56 AM] Jody Gar... says: Rob, the mechanism is tested, and used in geotools.
[10:08:06 AM] Jody Gar... says: The specifics are apparently sun conventions wrapped at 100 columns.
[10:08:39 AM] Rob Atki... says: (But we cant accept a solution till its been reviewed I guess - same as any GSIP - concur its worthwhile then invest in effort then review then adopt)
[10:08:48 AM] Jody Gar... says: okay this is a quick meeting now that we have people
[10:08:56 AM] Alessio F... says: I would like very much a code formatting in GeoServer too, first of all because this will avoid a lot of unsuseful "commits" in SVN
[10:09:04 AM] Jody Gar... says: good question Rob, I think this is us accepting that a solution be created and implemented.
[10:09:12 AM] Rob Atki... says: OK - if mechanism is as per geotools, this should be docced..
[10:10:10 AM] Rob Atki... says: just getting into swing of being a beuracrat.
[10:13:32 AM] Jody Gar... says: oh dear
[10:13:45 AM] Jody Gar... says: so beuracrat, can you move us on to the last agenda item
[10:14:49 AM] Jody Gar... says: or I can ...
[10:14:54 AM] Jody Gar... says: 3) FOSS Plans
[10:15:07 AM] Rob Atki... says: Am still hoping to get there myself - will be leaving Thursday night
[10:15:15 AM] Alessio F... says: sorry Jody, another question, how about this XML module proposed by Justin?
[10:15:27 AM] Jody Gar... says: We had some agenda items last time to figure out FOSS involvement, chris did respond with some details from TOPP. And we found out that no BOF session has been requested etc...
[10:15:40 AM] Jody Gar... says: There is no proposal, so ....
[10:15:41 AM] Rob Atki... says: Have you looked at agenda to work out when we'd be live to do demos?
[10:15:45 AM] Jody Gar... says: (oh you mean in geotools)
[10:16:04 AM] Alessio F... says: ah, ok ... sorry
[10:16:18 AM] Jody Gar... says: If we have missed our demo spot, I invite geoserver to sneak into the uDig demo, serve up content between the two apps and do editing etc...
[10:17:35 AM] Jody Gar... says: Alessio, it seems the wiki pages actually include space for votes - do you mind updating GSIP#2, and perhaps somebody else can update GSIP#1 in response to the previous agenda items
[10:17:36 AM] Alessio F... says: I think it is a good idea
[10:17:47 AM] Jody Gar... says: (getting the hang of the geoserver process will take a couple weeks)
[10:17:46 AM] Alessio F... says: ok
[10:19:50 AM] Alessio F... says: Here we are working hard in order to have a good and stable version of GeoServer + WCS, and we would like very much to have a demo of the WCS too
[10:20:16 AM] Jody Gar... says: okay, I would like to see a GeoTools Demo table then, and we can show the full stack.
[10:20:50 AM] Jody Gar... says: I have requested a uDig demo area, and we can ask Paul if those can be one in the same (but I do not want to crowd his space, as uDig has different demo needs and is focused on end users)
[10:21:09 AM] Jody Gar... says: I can man a uDig demo on the geotools table for example and hopefully talk to your WCS
[10:22:21 AM] Alessio F... says: yes, it would be great
[10:22:58 AM] Jody Gar... says: I would like to make the request myself, but I am concerned I will not get it done due to being busy, and we are late. I would love to impose on cholmes who seems to have connections
[10:23:06 AM] Jody Gar... says: Can anybody volunteer to see if we can sneak in late?
[10:23:55 AM] Jody Gar... says: (working hard on that how to make a proposals page)
[10:23:56 AM] Alessio F... says: I'm online
[10:24:05 AM] Alessio F... says: so I can do this
[10:25:39 AM] Jody Gar... says: (ask for FOSS BOF / Demo space?)
[10:25:46 AM] Jody Gar... says: sorry alessio - do what?
[10:26:39 AM] Alessio F... says: sorry I understood to ping Chris
[10:26:52 AM] Jody Gar... says: sure, please ping chris, lets take this to email and sort it out.
[10:27:00 AM] Jody Gar... says: and then I think our meeting is done, thanks everyone.
[10:27:38 AM] Alessio F... says: k
[10:27:47 AM] Rob Atki... says: ciao
[10:27:56 AM] Alessio F... says: ciao
[10:31:12 AM] Jody Gar... says: I will post logs;
[10:31:13 AM] Jody Gar... says: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOSDEV/How+to+make+a+GeoServer+Improvement+Proposal
[10:31:18 AM] Jody Gar... says: include a bad email example now.
