[Geoserver-devel] SourceForge exit strategy

SourceForge had outages / reduced service during the week of the GeoTools 19-beta / GeoServer 2.13-beta release.

This caused:

  • Delays on mailing list discussions and announcements (including the release announcement),

  • Loss of all download statistics for the release, so we don’t know how many people are downloading / testing it.

Once again, this brings up the topic of whether we should consider something a bit more reliable than sourceforge for hosting mailing lists and release artifacts. There is a preexisting migration proposal here: https://github.com/geotools/geotools/wiki/SourceForge-exit-strategy

One suggestion was to start by migrating the GeoTools project (As it is a lower-risk migration, given that most people get there artifacts via maven), and use that to determine feasibility of migrating the GeoServer project.

Any thoughts?

Torben

I like that idea, we would need to coordinate with OSGeo slack with respect to migrating mailing lists.

···

On 6 March 2018 at 13:32, Torben Barsballe <tbarsballe@anonymised.com> wrote:

SourceForge had outages / reduced service during the week of the GeoTools 19-beta / GeoServer 2.13-beta release.

This caused:

  • Delays on mailing list discussions and announcements (including the release announcement),

  • Loss of all download statistics for the release, so we don’t know how many people are downloading / testing it.

Once again, this brings up the topic of whether we should consider something a bit more reliable than sourceforge for hosting mailing lists and release artifacts. There is a preexisting migration proposal here: https://github.com/geotools/geotools/wiki/SourceForge-exit-strategy

One suggestion was to start by migrating the GeoTools project (As it is a lower-risk migration, given that most people get there artifacts via maven), and use that to determine feasibility of migrating the GeoServer project.

Any thoughts?

Torben


Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot


GeoTools-Devel mailing list
GeoTools-Devel@anonymised.com66…sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-devel


Jody Garnett

Hi Torben,
I’m tentatively -1 on the idea but willing to discuss.

The proposal you’re citing is 2.5 years old and the mailing list trouble we have had in the past week is
been the only really serious issue we have had since, as far as I remember.

Migrating the lists to OSGeo will generate a very significant disturbance again, but one of our own making,
we’ll probably lose all subscribers* and create two places that people have to search into before posting a request.

I’d be willing to consider the idea again if we have another SF issue in the short term, but besides that,
I believe we can tolerate one trouble in 2.5 years, I doubt OSGeo would be able to significantly
outperform that.

Speaking of which, we keep on having problems with the OSGeo hosted maven repository,
my colleagues report slowness and occasional inability to connect, I normally dodge the problem
by building from sources my snapshot and using -nsu in all builds. Now, I understand we have not
seen similar issues on the mailing list, but it gives the impression SAC is a bit short handed
(looking at our community, everybody seems to be busy up to their eyeballs too, so don’t think we
can offer help there).

Cheers
Andrea

  • even assuming SF will give us the list of subscribers, which they might not due to privacy,
    I don’t think we can force subscribe anyone to a new list server hosted by a different
    organization… so we’d likely have to start from scratch
···

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 10:32 PM, Torben Barsballe <tbarsballe@anonymised.com> wrote:

SourceForge had outages / reduced service during the week of the GeoTools 19-beta / GeoServer 2.13-beta release.

This caused:

  • Delays on mailing list discussions and announcements (including the release announcement),

  • Loss of all download statistics for the release, so we don’t know how many people are downloading / testing it.

Once again, this brings up the topic of whether we should consider something a bit more reliable than sourceforge for hosting mailing lists and release artifacts. There is a preexisting migration proposal here: https://github.com/geotools/geotools/wiki/SourceForge-exit-strategy

One suggestion was to start by migrating the GeoTools project (As it is a lower-risk migration, given that most people get there artifacts via maven), and use that to determine feasibility of migrating the GeoServer project.

Any thoughts?

Torben


Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot


Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@anonymised.com.366…sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

Regards,

Andrea Aime

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

The recent qgis release hit the OSGeo download servers hard, and our maven repo was affected. After all the fun with repo.boundlessgeo.org we probably know a) enough to host artifactory on SAC b) not to try cloud hosting of the same.

···

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 10:32 PM, Torben Barsballe <tbarsballe@…3839…> wrote:

SourceForge had outages / reduced service during the week of the GeoTools 19-beta / GeoServer 2.13-beta release.

This caused:

  • Delays on mailing list discussions and announcements (including the release announcement),

  • Loss of all download statistics for the release, so we don’t know how many people are downloading / testing it.

Once again, this brings up the topic of whether we should consider something a bit more reliable than sourceforge for hosting mailing lists and release artifacts. There is a preexisting migration proposal here: https://github.com/geotools/geotools/wiki/SourceForge-exit-strategy

One suggestion was to start by migrating the GeoTools project (As it is a lower-risk migration, given that most people get there artifacts via maven), and use that to determine feasibility of migrating the GeoServer project.

Any thoughts?

Torben


Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot


Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

Regards,

Andrea Aime

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.


Jody Garnett

Hi Jody,
I don’t think it’s a specific event, my colleagues not involved in the full stack (and thus not having maybe an up to date GeoTools checkout)
report repository slowness periodically (e.g., weekly or monthly).
If the artifactory on SAC would get separation from other downloads, that is, its own dedicated bandwidth, it may be an interesting option to look into.

Cheers
Andrea

···

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 3:20 PM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com> wrote:

The recent qgis release hit the OSGeo download servers hard, and our maven repo was affected. After all the fun with repo.boundlessgeo.org we probably know a) enough to host artifactory on SAC b) not to try cloud hosting of the same.

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 11:43 PM Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi Torben,
I’m tentatively -1 on the idea but willing to discuss.

The proposal you’re citing is 2.5 years old and the mailing list trouble we have had in the past week is
been the only really serious issue we have had since, as far as I remember.

Migrating the lists to OSGeo will generate a very significant disturbance again, but one of our own making,
we’ll probably lose all subscribers* and create two places that people have to search into before posting a request.

I’d be willing to consider the idea again if we have another SF issue in the short term, but besides that,
I believe we can tolerate one trouble in 2.5 years, I doubt OSGeo would be able to significantly
outperform that.

Speaking of which, we keep on having problems with the OSGeo hosted maven repository,
my colleagues report slowness and occasional inability to connect, I normally dodge the problem
by building from sources my snapshot and using -nsu in all builds. Now, I understand we have not
seen similar issues on the mailing list, but it gives the impression SAC is a bit short handed
(looking at our community, everybody seems to be busy up to their eyeballs too, so don’t think we
can offer help there).

Cheers
Andrea

  • even assuming SF will give us the list of subscribers, which they might not due to privacy,
    I don’t think we can force subscribe anyone to a new list server hosted by a different
    organization… so we’d likely have to start from scratch

Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________

GeoTools-Devel mailing list
GeoTools-Devel@anonymised.comsourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-devel


Jody Garnett

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 10:32 PM, Torben Barsballe <tbarsballe@anonymised.com> wrote:

SourceForge had outages / reduced service during the week of the GeoTools 19-beta / GeoServer 2.13-beta release.

This caused:

  • Delays on mailing list discussions and announcements (including the release announcement),

  • Loss of all download statistics for the release, so we don’t know how many people are downloading / testing it.

Once again, this brings up the topic of whether we should consider something a bit more reliable than sourceforge for hosting mailing lists and release artifacts. There is a preexisting migration proposal here: https://github.com/geotools/geotools/wiki/SourceForge-exit-strategy

One suggestion was to start by migrating the GeoTools project (As it is a lower-risk migration, given that most people get there artifacts via maven), and use that to determine feasibility of migrating the GeoServer project.

Any thoughts?

Torben


Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot


Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@anonymised.comsourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

Regards,

Andrea Aime

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

Regards,

Andrea Aime

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

I agree with Andrea. The loss of mailing list subscribers would have a severe impact; I do not think we should move our mailing lists unless we have another major outage in the next two years. In my eyes, SourceForge are on probation.

A very good reason for moving to the OSGeo lists is that our subscriber lists would then belong to our foundation, rather than being held by a third party. This does not, however, by itself justify the disruption.

Should we move, we just email the lists telling everyone that we are moving. We can approach SourceForge and see if they will let us have the mailing list archives, then we close the lists.

Kind regards,
Ben.

On 07/03/18 20:42, Andrea Aime wrote:

Hi Torben,
I'm tentatively -1 on the idea but willing to discuss.

The proposal you're citing is 2.5 years old and the mailing list trouble we
have had in the past week is
been the only really serious issue we have had since, as far as I remember.

Migrating the lists to OSGeo will generate a very significant disturbance
again, but one of our own making,
we'll probably lose all subscribers* and create two places that people have
to search into before posting a request.

I'd be willing to consider the idea again if we have another SF issue in
the short term, but besides that,
I believe we can tolerate one trouble in 2.5 years, I doubt OSGeo would be
able to significantly
outperform that.

Speaking of which, we keep on having problems with the OSGeo hosted maven
repository,
my colleagues report slowness and occasional inability to connect, I
normally dodge the problem
by building from sources my snapshot and using -nsu in all builds. Now, I
understand we have not
seen similar issues on the mailing list, but it gives the impression SAC is
a bit short handed
(looking at our community, everybody seems to be busy up to their eyeballs
too, so don't think we
can offer help there).

Cheers
Andrea

* even assuming SF will give us the list of subscribers, which they might
not due to privacy,
I don't think we can force subscribe anyone to a new list server hosted by
a different
organization... so we'd likely have to start from scratch

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@anonymised.com>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/&gt;
New Zealand

On 07-03-18 15:20, Jody Garnett wrote:

The recent qgis release hit the OSGeo download servers hard, and our
maven repo was affected.

FYI We are not using the OSGeo download servers for Windows standalone
installers anymore (since about a week).

We put cloudflare in between the user and the (non osgeo) download
server. Cloudflare tells us they saved us 24Tb of Bandwidth this week...

If still having problems let us know, maybe we should try to setup the
same for the Network installers.

Regards,

Richard Duivenvoorde

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@anonymised.com>
wrote:

I agree with Andrea. The loss of mailing list subscribers would have a
severe impact; I do not think we should move our mailing lists unless we
have another major outage in the next two years. In my eyes, SourceForge
are on probation.

Totally agree. Yes, they made mistakes, but also fixed them. Personally I'm
not ready to give up on them just right now.

Cheers
Andrea

==

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V
for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il
loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio,
per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo
messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di
darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio
stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso,
divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od
utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
information in this message that has been received in error. The sender
does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes
made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of
e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.