[Geoserver-users] GeoServer without GWC?

Hi,

It is commonly mentioned to use a standalone geowebcache instance when
serving multiple geoserver instances and to improve performance in
production environments for a high load of customers. For example the
following blog from GeoSolutions:

http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/
<http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/&gt;

My question is, how does one go about "disabling" the geowebcache embedded
within GeoServer, or more to the point, should I be disabling GWC? I have
seen (granted) older posts suggesting to remove the GWC jar files from the
installation directory, is this still the course of action I should take? Or
should I just disable all layers than currently have tile caching enabled?

Your input is greatly appreciated

Regards

Gavin

--
View this message in context: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/GeoServer-without-GWC-tp5195339.html
Sent from the GeoServer - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

I just checked the dependencies and it looks like GWC is used by the GeoPackage and MBTiles modules so if you are using either of those, you probably need the GWC jars. Otherwise you are probably safe to remove them. Running GeoServer without the embedded GWC isn’t done very often, but does happen and I’m not aware of any cases of it breaking anything.

Otherwise, yes, you can turn off each of the tile layers, and set GeoServer to not create caches for any newly created layers.

···

On 25 March 2015 at 03:55, gavin.montgomery <gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi,

It is commonly mentioned to use a standalone geowebcache instance when
serving multiple geoserver instances and to improve performance in
production environments for a high load of customers. For example the
following blog from GeoSolutions:

http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/
<http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/>

My question is, how does one go about “disabling” the geowebcache embedded
within GeoServer, or more to the point, should I be disabling GWC? I have
seen (granted) older posts suggesting to remove the GWC jar files from the
installation directory, is this still the course of action I should take? Or
should I just disable all layers than currently have tile caching enabled?

Your input is greatly appreciated

Regards

Gavin


View this message in context: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/GeoServer-without-GWC-tp5195339.html
Sent from the GeoServer - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored
by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all
things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to
news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the
conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/


Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@anonymised.comsts.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

Kevin Smith

Software Engineer | Boundless

ksmith@anonymised.com

+1-778-785-7459

@boundlessgeo

http://boundlessgeo.com/

If you want to have a stand alone version of GWC and a Geoserver (with its own version of GWC) you need to change the variable GEOWECACHE_CACHE_DIR in the geoserver configuration file.
Keep a standalone version for basemap.
Keep geoserver with geowebcache for tiled maps connected to its data source in order to perform operation like GetFeatureInfo…

Then is it enough to disable caching in the geoserver when you don’t want if ?

Xav

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:55 AM, gavin.montgomery <
gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi,

It is commonly mentioned to use a standalone geowebcache instance when
serving multiple geoserver instances and to improve performance in
production environments for a high load of customers. For example the
following blog from GeoSolutions:

http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/
<
http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/
>

Right, this is one of the few cases in which we still deploy a stand-alone
GWC.
But look at the numbers, we are talking about thousands of requests per
second... in this situation
it's indeed a good idea to keep it separate, mostly to avoid the sheer
number of requests
GWC is receiving to dominate your tomcat instance, and leaving little space
to wms/wfs.

But if you don't have such a demanding deploy, keeping the integrated one
it's easier
and it's (by far) the more common choice.

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

*AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003*

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il
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utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
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The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
information in this message that has been received in error. The sender
does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
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made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of
e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------

Adding to Andrea's.

We used to deplou GWC separately in the past for a number of reasons:

- diskquota did not work in a cluster hence when we had multiple
geoserver in parallel using embedded GWC was not an option
- gwc integration in geoserver was still a bit unstable
- more control over the configuration
- easier to scale them independently

As of today we are pushing towards keeping them integrated which makes
deployments simpler, however there is still one thing on the wishlist
that would make the integrated GWC my #1 option without doubts and
that would be the ability to distinguish WMS requests that are routed
transparently to GWC from those that are not in the control flow
plugin.
It is infact impossible today to create a QOS strategy that
differentiate this use case when GS and GWC are integrate and that can
be painful when you are serving thousands of users with the same
cluster. Of course, you can dedicate different groups of isntances to
different roles but that's not different than using GWC standlone.

Regards,
Simone Giannecchini

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.

Ing. Simone Giannecchini
@simogeo
Founder/Director

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

-------------------------------------------------------
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate.
Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del
messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora
riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo
cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla
distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema.
Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte,
distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità
diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal
D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely
for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be
confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of
privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New
Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any
disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either
dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except
previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by
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that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty
or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent
messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they
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transmission, viruses, etc.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Andrea Aime
<andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:55 AM, gavin.montgomery
<gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi,

It is commonly mentioned to use a standalone geowebcache instance when
serving multiple geoserver instances and to improve performance in
production environments for a high load of customers. For example the
following blog from GeoSolutions:

http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/

<http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/&gt;

Right, this is one of the few cases in which we still deploy a stand-alone
GWC.
But look at the numbers, we are talking about thousands of requests per
second... in this situation
it's indeed a good idea to keep it separate, mostly to avoid the sheer
number of requests
GWC is receiving to dominate your tomcat instance, and leaving little space
to wms/wfs.

But if you don't have such a demanding deploy, keeping the integrated one
it's easier
and it's (by far) the more common choice.

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i
file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro
utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le
finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio
senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia
via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso,
cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo
anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per
finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati
dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does
not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes
made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of
e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website,
sponsored
by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for
all
things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs
to
news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the
conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
_______________________________________________
Geoserver-users mailing list
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All,

Thank you for all your very helpful responses.

A quick update, apologies that it has come a little late.

Firstly I disabled all the caching on each of the layers we had made available to GWC inside Geoserver.
I then removed ALL gwc jar files from the GeoServer lib directory. I believe last time I may have missed a few.
Geoserver started happily with no errors.

GWCdeployed, I just needed to steal the majority of the text from the layer config files in the gwc-layers directory.

Afterall, we currently have two servers, one running 4 instances of geoserer, the other; solely running GWC. Going forward, we are allocating another 3 servers for geoserver and one additional GWC.

To answer the question of requirement, this service is for a national mapping application serving thousands of clients concurrently, we very shortly realised that the original design was not going to cut it, especially as the GWC was consuming a lot of memory as we have complete national coverage of high resolution base-mapping data. This clashed with the memory allocation for GeoServer and did result in memory issues.

Overall, a success at this moment in time, I may post back later in the programme with some performance stats to see if we really have gained a valuable improvement.

Thank you for all our support

From: simone.giannecchini@anonymised.com
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:58:14 +0100
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] GeoServer without GWC?
To: andrea.aime@anonymised.com
CC: gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com; geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net

Adding to Andrea’s.

We used to deplou GWC separately in the past for a number of reasons:

  • diskquota did not work in a cluster hence when we had multiple
    geoserver in parallel using embedded GWC was not an option
  • gwc integration in geoserver was still a bit unstable
  • more control over the configuration
  • easier to scale them independently

As of today we are pushing towards keeping them integrated which makes
deployments simpler, however there is still one thing on the wishlist
that would make the integrated GWC my #1 option without doubts and
that would be the ability to distinguish WMS requests that are routed
transparently to GWC from those that are not in the control flow
plugin.
It is infact impossible today to create a QOS strategy that
differentiate this use case when GS and GWC are integrate and that can
be painful when you are serving thousands of users with the same
cluster. Of course, you can dedicate different groups of isntances to
different roles but that’s not different than using GWC standlone.

Regards,
Simone Giannecchini

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.

Ing. Simone Giannecchini
@simogeo
Founder/Director

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it


AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate.
Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del
messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora
riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo
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distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema.
Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte,
distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità
diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal
D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely
for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be
confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of
privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New
Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any
disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either
dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except
previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by
telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message
that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty
or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent
messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they
were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail
transmission, viruses, etc.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Andrea Aime
andrea.aime@anonymised.com wrote:

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:55 AM, gavin.montgomery
gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com wrote:

Hi,

It is commonly mentioned to use a standalone geowebcache instance when
serving multiple geoserver instances and to improve performance in
production environments for a high load of customers. For example the
following blog from GeoSolutions:

http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/

http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/

Right, this is one of the few cases in which we still deploy a stand-alone
GWC.
But look at the numbers, we are talking about thousands of requests per
second… in this situation
it’s indeed a good idea to keep it separate, mostly to avoid the sheer
number of requests
GWC is receiving to dominate your tomcat instance, and leaving little space
to wms/wfs.

But if you don’t have such a demanding deploy, keeping the integrated one
it’s easier
and it’s (by far) the more common choice.

Cheers
Andrea

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i
file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro
utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le
finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio
senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia
via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso,
cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo
anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per
finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati
dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does
not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes
made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of
e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.



Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website,
sponsored
by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for
all
things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs
to
news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the
conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/


Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@anonymised.comforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

Dear Gavin,
thanks for sharing this info, I will put together some additional
thoughts on where to squeeze (at least in our experienc) additional
perf.

Regards,
Simone Giannecchini

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.

Ing. Simone Giannecchini
@simogeo
Founder/Director

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

-------------------------------------------------------
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate.
Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del
messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora
riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo
cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla
distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema.
Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte,
distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità
diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal
D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely
for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be
confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of
privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New
Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any
disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either
dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except
previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by
telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message
that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty
or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent
messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they
were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail
transmission, viruses, etc.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Gavin Montgomery
<gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com> wrote:

All,

Thank you for all your very helpful responses.

A quick update, apologies that it has come a little late.

Firstly I disabled all the caching on each of the layers we had made
available to GWC inside Geoserver.
I then removed ALL gwc jar files from the GeoServer lib directory. I believe
last time I may have missed a few.
Geoserver started happily with no errors.

GWCdeployed, I just needed to steal the majority of the text from the layer
config files in the gwc-layers directory.

Afterall, we currently have two servers, one running 4 instances of
geoserer, the other; solely running GWC. Going forward, we are allocating
another 3 servers for geoserver and one additional GWC.

To answer the question of requirement, this service is for a national
mapping application serving thousands of clients concurrently, we very
shortly realised that the original design was not going to cut it,
especially as the GWC was consuming a lot of memory as we have complete
national coverage of high resolution base-mapping data. This clashed with
the memory allocation for GeoServer and did result in memory issues.

Overall, a success at this moment in time, I may post back later in the
programme with some performance stats to see if we really have gained a
valuable improvement.

Thank you for all our support

From: simone.giannecchini@anonymised.com
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:58:14 +0100
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] GeoServer without GWC?
To: andrea.aime@anonymised.com
CC: gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com; geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net

Adding to Andrea's.

We used to deplou GWC separately in the past for a number of reasons:

- diskquota did not work in a cluster hence when we had multiple
geoserver in parallel using embedded GWC was not an option
- gwc integration in geoserver was still a bit unstable
- more control over the configuration
- easier to scale them independently

As of today we are pushing towards keeping them integrated which makes
deployments simpler, however there is still one thing on the wishlist
that would make the integrated GWC my #1 option without doubts and
that would be the ability to distinguish WMS requests that are routed
transparently to GWC from those that are not in the control flow
plugin.
It is infact impossible today to create a QOS strategy that
differentiate this use case when GS and GWC are integrate and that can
be painful when you are serving thousands of users with the same
cluster. Of course, you can dedicate different groups of isntances to
different roles but that's not different than using GWC standlone.

Regards,
Simone Giannecchini

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.

Ing. Simone Giannecchini
@simogeo
Founder/Director

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 333 8128928

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

-------------------------------------------------------
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate.
Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del
messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora
riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo
cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla
distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema.
Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte,
distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità
diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal
D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely
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On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Andrea Aime
<andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:55 AM, gavin.montgomery
> <gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> It is commonly mentioned to use a standalone geowebcache instance when
>> serving multiple geoserver instances and to improve performance in
>> production environments for a high load of customers. For example the
>> following blog from GeoSolutions:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/
>>
>>
>> <http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/real-world-uses-cases-troubleshooting-large-geoserver-deployment/&gt;
>
>
> Right, this is one of the few cases in which we still deploy a
> stand-alone
> GWC.
> But look at the numbers, we are talking about thousands of requests per
> second... in this situation
> it's indeed a good idea to keep it separate, mostly to avoid the sheer
> number of requests
> GWC is receiving to dominate your tomcat instance, and leaving little
> space
> to wms/wfs.
>
> But if you don't have such a demanding deploy, keeping the integrated
> one
> it's easier
> and it's (by far) the more common choice.
>
> Cheers
> Andrea
>
> --
> ==
> GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
> http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.
> ==
>
> Ing. Andrea Aime
> @geowolf
> Technical Lead
>
> GeoSolutions S.A.S.
> Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
> 55054 Massarosa (LU)
> Italy
> phone: +39 0584 962313
> fax: +39 0584 1660272
> mob: +39 339 8844549
>
> http://www.geo-solutions.it
> http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
>
> AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
>
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> dettati
> dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.
>
>
>
> The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely
> for
> the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential
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> proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
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On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Gavin Montgomery <
gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com> wrote:

To answer the question of requirement, this service is for a national
mapping application serving thousands of clients concurrently, we very
shortly realised that the original design was not going to cut it,
especially as the GWC was consuming a lot of memory as we have complete
national coverage of high resolution base-mapping data. This clashed with
the memory allocation for GeoServer and did result in memory issues.

I'd be interested in knowing more about GWC and its memory usage...
mumble... maybe it's because GWC is loading the
tile fully in memory when serving it back? And yet... most tiles are 20K or
less, even with a thousand concurrent requests
it should not use more than 20MB of heap at a single time.
Do you have any clue as to why GWC was clashing with GeoServer own memory
allocation?

One thing that I've found beneficial when running benchmarks is growing the
young generation since most of the
objects used by GeoServer are short lived.

Oh, one final question if I may, what OS are you deploying on?

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

*AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003*

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
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utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
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-------------------------------------------------------

So,

Initially we were running two large geoservers, with GWC embedded. These
were 6CPU, 128GB machines (I must add this is in a dev environment, VMs and
Vdisk), in production we have physical 8CPU, 128GB machines with SAN
storage, (a recent check showed RAM usage was up to over 100GB).

Our cache consisted of full aerial photography for England at 50cm
resolution, cache from Ordnance Survey vector data which is held
(unfortunately) in an Oracle 12c db, as well as lower resolution satellite
imagery for a given number of years. Cache has been pre-built to 10 levels
down to ~1:3000.

We found that, if we started up geoserver with the GWC disabled, memory on
the server would sit comfortably at the level we allocated to the JVM.
However, if the GWC layers were enabled we would find that the after startup
memory would continue to rise beyond the allocation. A member of my team who
is more technical on Linux/Unix systems was explaining that this could be
down to fact that the Kernel is not releasing the memory? When we shut down
geoserver, the memory would not be released (at first we feared this was a
memory leak!).

What this meant was, as load increased on the geoserver, memory would rise
due to the GWC which then would not allow enough resources for GeoServer to
handle other requests to various other map layers.

Our re-design now allocates a very similar architecture to geosolutions
blog. We will be delivering two servers with 4 geoserver tomcat instances in
each. Sat alongside two servers solely providing GWC services. Part of our
scale out solution is that we can now replicate these servers horizontally
depending on the performance of the system.

Anything else, please ask, I will try my best to answer.

Regards

--
View this message in context: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/GeoServer-without-GWC-tp5195339p5195854.html
Sent from the GeoServer - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 12:17 PM, gavin.montgomery <
gavin.montgomery@anonymised.com> wrote:

We found that, if we started up geoserver with the GWC disabled, memory on
the server would sit comfortably at the level we allocated to the JVM.
However, if the GWC layers were enabled we would find that the after
startup
memory would continue to rise beyond the allocation. A member of my team
who
is more technical on Linux/Unix systems was explaining that this could be
down to fact that the Kernel is not releasing the memory? When we shut down
geoserver, the memory would not be released (at first we feared this was a
memory leak!).

Hum... wondering if this is related to GWC usage of file channels (as
opposed
to simple streams) to transfer data from disk to response.
The javadoc of the method is not so explict about how this can be
implemented:

http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/nio/channels/FileChannel.html#transferTo(long,%20long,%20java.nio.channels.WritableByteChannel)

However, it states "Many operating systems can transfer bytes directly from
the filesystem cache to the target channel without actually copying them."

Wondering if this might involve some sort of memory mapping... that said,
having
the memory "used" by the filesystem cache under Linux is normal, the
opposite
would be actually pathological (see http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ )

It would be different if the memory is instead used by the application...
but
in this case closing the application would release it all.

What this meant was, as load increased on the geoserver, memory would rise
due to the GWC which then would not allow enough resources for GeoServer to
handle other requests to various other map layers.

So GeoServer was throwing out of memory errors? Or you were experiencing
slowdowns?

When we wrote that blog we actually though of a different
explanation/reasoning
for keeping GWC separate: we gave Tomcat a "reasonable" 200 threads to
respond requests (that's the default afaik) and the embedded GWC was getting
so many requests that all 200 thread were normally all busy dealing with
tiles,
making it hard for wms/wfs requests to go through (sort of denial of service
caused by excess tile traffic), and that also made the control-flow
extension less useful,
because the excess requests were queued at the Tomcat level.

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/NWWaa2 for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

*AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003*

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il
loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio,
per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo
messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di
darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio
stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso,
divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od
utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
information in this message that has been received in error. The sender
does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes
made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of
e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------