[Geoserver-users] Problem with cascadning wms

Johan_Hallgren · April 3, 2016, 5:23am

Hello

We are using Cascadning WMS and randomly (weekly) the connection to the other server is lost.

We have to go into administration and at Store click Save and then it is up and running again.

In the log the rows I think belong to our problems are:

2016-04-01 09:19:07,049 ERROR [geoserver.ows] -

java.lang.NullPointerException

at org.geoserver.catalog.ResourcePool.getWMSLayer(ResourcePool.java:1715)

at org.geoserver.catalog.impl.WMSLayerInfoImpl.getWMSLayer(WMSLayerInfoImpl.java:29)

at sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor177.invoke(Unknown Source)

Besides this disturbance everything works very well.

To find a solution we have moved from Linux to Windows but it seems as we have the exact same problem in both environments.

Is there something anyone have heard of before?

Best regards

Johan

···

Johan Hallgren +46 (0)70 200 41 01 johan.hallgren@anonymised.com	GISZEAL AB www.giszeal.se

Andrea_Aime4 · April 3, 2016, 8:28am

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@anonymised.com>
wrote:

Hello

We are using Cascadning WMS and randomly (weekly) the connection to the
other server is lost.

We have to go into administration and at Store click Save and then it is
up and running again.

In the log the rows I think belong to our problems are:

2016-04-01 09:19:07,049 ERROR [geoserver.ows] -

java.lang.NullPointerException

                             at
org.geoserver.catalog.ResourcePool.getWMSLayer(ResourcePool.java:1715)

                             at
org.geoserver.catalog.impl.WMSLayerInfoImpl.getWMSLayer(WMSLayerInfoImpl.java:29)

                             at
sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor177.invoke(Unknown Source)

Besides this disturbance everything works very well.

What version of GeoServer are you using?

To find a solution we have moved from Linux to Windows but it seems as we
have the exact same problem in both environments.

Within the limits of my personal experience, such a move made the
installation less performant and more prone to issues,
but I'd be curious to hear about yours (and others) experiences in this
regard

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

*AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003*

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il
loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio,
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divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od
utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
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-------------------------------------------------------

Johan_Hallgren · April 4, 2016, 12:48pm

Hello again,

Yes, you are right, it’s not optimal with performance in mind. But in our case we are using a service on internet where login is required. By using cascadning wms we could hide the login-information from exposing in a js-file.

If the problem couldn’t be solved we will leave GeoServer for the cascading WMS.

We are using GeoServer 2.8.2 (on Windows)

/johan

···

Johan Hallgren +46 (0)70 200 41 01 johan.hallgren@…7037…	GISZEAL AB www.giszeal.se

From: andrea.aime@…84… [mailto:andrea.aime@…84…] On Behalf Of Andrea Aime
Sent: den 3 april 2016 10:28
To: Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@…7037…>
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Problem with cascadning wms

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@…7037…> wrote:

Hello

We are using Cascadning WMS and randomly (weekly) the connection to the other server is lost.

We have to go into administration and at Store click Save and then it is up and running again.

In the log the rows I think belong to our problems are:

2016-04-01 09:19:07,049 ERROR [geoserver.ows] -

java.lang.NullPointerException

at org.geoserver.catalog.ResourcePool.getWMSLayer(ResourcePool.java:1715)

at org.geoserver.catalog.impl.WMSLayerInfoImpl.getWMSLayer(WMSLayerInfoImpl.java:29)

at sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor177.invoke(Unknown Source)

Besides this disturbance everything works very well.

What version of GeoServer are you using?

To find a solution we have moved from Linux to Windows but it seems as we have the exact same problem in both environments.

Within the limits of my personal experience, such a move made the installation less performant and more prone to issues,

but I’d be curious to hear about yours (and others) experiences in this regard

Cheers

Andrea

–

==

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit

http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

==

Ing. Andrea Aime

@geowolf

Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)

phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it

http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

Jukka_Rahkonen · April 4, 2016, 1:14pm

Hello again,

Yes, you are right, it’s not optimal with performance in mind. But in our case we are using a service on internet where login is required. By using cascadning wms we could hide the login-information from exposing in a js-file.

If the problem couldn’t be solved we will leave GeoServer for the cascading WMS.

We are using GeoServer 2.8.2 (on Windows)

/johan

···

Johan Hallgren +46 (0)70 200 41 01 johan.hallgren@…7037…	GISZEAL AB www.giszeal.se

From: andrea.aime@…84… [mailto:andrea.aime@…84…] On Behalf Of Andrea Aime
Sent: den 3 april 2016 10:28
To: Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@…7037…>
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Problem with cascadning wms

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@…7037…> wrote:

Hello

We are using Cascadning WMS and randomly (weekly) the connection to the other server is lost.

We have to go into administration and at Store click Save and then it is up and running again.

In the log the rows I think belong to our problems are:

2016-04-01 09:19:07,049 ERROR [geoserver.ows] -

java.lang.NullPointerException

at org.geoserver.catalog.ResourcePool.getWMSLayer(ResourcePool.java:1715)

at org.geoserver.catalog.impl.WMSLayerInfoImpl.getWMSLayer(WMSLayerInfoImpl.java:29)

at sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor177.invoke(Unknown Source)

Besides this disturbance everything works very well.

What version of GeoServer are you using?

To find a solution we have moved from Linux to Windows but it seems as we have the exact same problem in both environments.

Within the limits of my personal experience, such a move made the installation less performant and more prone to issues,

but I’d be curious to hear about yours (and others) experiences in this regard

Cheers

Andrea

–

==

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit

http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

==

Ing. Andrea Aime

@geowolf

Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)

phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it

http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

Johan_Hallgren · April 4, 2016, 1:55pm

Ok, I see.

We have other difficulties related to the mix of Windows and Linux boxes that more easily could be solved if GeoServer runs on Windows. That’s one reason to the shift. I also get the feeling that Windows was updated more often than Linux.

We have not seen any performance downgrade so far. The load is not extreme and to see the difference we have to do some more serious benchmarking.

Reproduce our problem is not easy. The system could run for a week which means thousands of maps and then suddenly the cascadning wms-layers stops working. Going into the store and hit Save is the magic key.

It often happens at Monday morning and if I would guess the WMS we mirror is restarted at the weekend and our GeoServer is losing the connection.

Solution could be:

· Recycle the Windows service (I could try, but I don’t know when).

· Refresh the WMSLayer if “org.geoserver.catalog.ResourcePool.getWMSLayer” fails (must be done within the GeoServer code).

· Rewrite the client code to not use cascadning WMS (I couldJ)

/johan

···

Johan Hallgren +46 (0)70 200 41 01 johan.hallgren@…7037…	GISZEAL AB www.giszeal.se

From: Rahkonen Jukka (MML) [mailto:jukka.rahkonen@…6847…]
Sent: den 4 april 2016 15:15
To: Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@…7037…>
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Problem with cascadning wms

Hi,

I believe that Andrea was meaning the change from Linux to Windows. Cascading WMS makes sense for your use case.

I can try to repeat the issue be cascading some of our own WMS services and then stopping the master WMS.

-Jukka Rahkonen-

Lähettäjä: Johan Hallgren
Lähetetty: ‎4.‎4.‎2016 16:06
Vastaanottaja: Andrea Aime
Kopio: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Aihe: Re: [Geoserver-users] Problem with cascadning wms

Hello again,

Yes, you are right, it’s not optimal with performance in mind. But in our case we are using a service on internet where login is required. By using cascadning wms we could hide the login-information from exposing in a js-file.

If the problem couldn’t be solved we will leave GeoServer for the cascading WMS.

We are using GeoServer 2.8.2 (on Windows)

/johan

Johan Hallgren +46 (0)70 200 41 01 johan.hallgren@…7037…	GISZEAL AB www.giszeal.se

From: andrea.aime@…84… [mailto:andrea.aime@…84…] On Behalf Of Andrea Aime
Sent: den 3 april 2016 10:28
To: Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@…7037…>
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Problem with cascadning wms

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@…7037…> wrote:

Hello

We are using Cascadning WMS and randomly (weekly) the connection to the other server is lost.

We have to go into administration and at Store click Save and then it is up and running again.

In the log the rows I think belong to our problems are:

2016-04-01 09:19:07,049 ERROR [geoserver.ows] -

java.lang.NullPointerException

at org.geoserver.catalog.ResourcePool.getWMSLayer(ResourcePool.java:1715)

at org.geoserver.catalog.impl.WMSLayerInfoImpl.getWMSLayer(WMSLayerInfoImpl.java:29)

at sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor177.invoke(Unknown Source)

Besides this disturbance everything works very well.

What version of GeoServer are you using?

To find a solution we have moved from Linux to Windows but it seems as we have the exact same problem in both environments.

Within the limits of my personal experience, such a move made the installation less performant and more prone to issues,

but I’d be curious to hear about yours (and others) experiences in this regard

Cheers

Andrea

–

==

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit

http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

==

Ing. Andrea Aime

@geowolf

Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)

phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it

http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

Andrea_Aime4 · April 4, 2016, 2:22pm

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@anonymised.com>
wrote:

· Refresh the WMSLayer if
“org.geoserver.catalog.ResourcePool.getWMSLayer” fails (must be done within
the GeoServer code).

Hi Johan,
I'd go ahead and open a bug report, we have something to verify that a JDBC
connection is valid before using it
in database pools... not sure there is anything like that in HTTP land, but
we can look.

In the meantime, you can just disable HTTP connection pooling in the the
WMS store configuration, that will
make the code create a new connection per request.

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

*AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003*

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il
loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio,
per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo
messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di
darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio
stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso,
divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od
utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
information in this message that has been received in error. The sender
does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes
made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of
e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------

Johan_Hallgren · April 4, 2016, 3:18pm

Thanks, Thanks, Thanks!

/johan

···

Johan Hallgren +46 (0)70 200 41 01 johan.hallgren@…7037…	GISZEAL AB www.giszeal.se

From: andrea.aime@…84… [mailto:andrea.aime@…84…] On Behalf Of Andrea Aime
Sent: den 4 april 2016 16:23
To: Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@…7037…>
Cc: Rahkonen Jukka (MML) <jukka.rahkonen@…6847…>; geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Problem with cascadning wms

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Johan Hallgren <johan.hallgren@…7037…> wrote:

· Refresh the WMSLayer if “org.geoserver.catalog.ResourcePool.getWMSLayer” fails (must be done within the GeoServer code).

Hi Johan,

I’d go ahead and open a bug report, we have something to verify that a JDBC connection is valid before using it

in database pools… not sure there is anything like that in HTTP land, but we can look.

In the meantime, you can just disable HTTP connection pooling in the the WMS store configuration, that will

make the code create a new connection per request.

Cheers

Andrea

–

==

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit

http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

==

Ing. Andrea Aime

@geowolf

Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)

phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it

http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

Johan_Hallgren · October 11, 2016, 8:38am

What happend with this, was the bug report created and solved?

/Johan

--
View this message in context: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Problem-with-cascadning-wms-tp5259347p5290147.html
Sent from the GeoServer - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Andrea_Aime4 · October 11, 2016, 9:31am

I asked you to open it, did you?

Cheers
Andrea

···

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 10:38 AM, johan.hallgren@anonymised.com <johan.hallgren@anonymised.com> wrote:

What happend with this, was the bug report created and solved?

/Johan

–
View this message in context: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Problem-with-cascadning-wms-tp5259347p5290147.html
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==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime

@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.