[Geoserver-users] Two Questions: Geoserver Performance with ArcGIS 9.2, Querying Raster Layers?

GeoServer GeoServer User
1

Hi I have two questions:

I have been noticing that performance of WMS with Geoserver and ArcGIS 9.2 is extremely slow.
The same server works fine with uDig and QuantumGIS.

Previously I had been using ArcGIS 9.1 which seemed to work better.

This reduced performance seems to hold true for all the versions of Geoserver 1.5 - 1.6b2
with servlet compression both on and off.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas on why this is happening?

I would like to query a raster layer as a web service so that it will return the value at a particular long and lat.
These are single channel rasters, mainly integers.

For instance I would like to query the value of a raster layer at 43.00,-89.00

Any suggestions on how to do that?

Thanks in Advance!

  • Pete
2

Pete DeVries ha scritto:

Hi I have two questions:

1)

I have been noticing that performance of WMS with Geoserver and ArcGIS 9.2 is extremely slow.
The same server works fine with uDig and QuantumGIS.

Previously I had been using ArcGIS 9.1 which seemed to work better.

This reduced performance seems to hold true for all the versions of Geoserver 1.5 - 1.6b2
with servlet compression both on and off.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas on why this is happening?

In Geoserver 1.5.x we changed the PNG encoder to use JAI instead of
the standard Java PNG compressor. It gave us more options, and it's
the first time we hear about a slowdown... unfortunately no one of
us has access to ArcGis, so we only checked on browsers and open source
software, and as you stated, it all seems to be fine.

I guess one of the parameters we use for PNG affects ArcGIS decompression performance. We have a choice of a variety of algorithms
and compression levels. If I sent you some sample files would you
be able to tell a difference between them by loading them from disk?

2)

I would like to query a raster layer as a web service so that it will return the value at a particular long and lat.
These are single channel rasters, mainly integers.

For instance I would like to query the value of a raster layer at 43.00,-89.00

Raster layers are not queriable at the moment, but we could add that
capability. Can you add a jira issue for it? jira.codehaus.org
If you need both quickly also consider going for commercial support,
it would shorten up the times and provide the cerntainty of getting
what you want.

Cheers
Andrea

3

Andrea Aime ha scritto:

Pete DeVries ha scritto:

Hi I have two questions:

1)

I have been noticing that performance of WMS with Geoserver and ArcGIS 9.2 is extremely slow.
The same server works fine with uDig and QuantumGIS.

Previously I had been using ArcGIS 9.1 which seemed to work better.

This reduced performance seems to hold true for all the versions of Geoserver 1.5 - 1.6b2
with servlet compression both on and off.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas on why this is happening?

In Geoserver 1.5.x we changed the PNG encoder to use JAI instead of
the standard Java PNG compressor. It gave us more options, and it's
the first time we hear about a slowdown... unfortunately no one of
us has access to ArcGis, so we only checked on browsers and open source
software, and as you stated, it all seems to be fine.

Well, I downloaded ArcGis Explorer 9.2 and the moment I give it the
capabilities link it starts chewing up one of my two cores for...
minutes, and eating 120MB of memory too in the process.
Did not wait for it to end, killed it after a little while.

Yet, we are WMS 1.1.1 compliant, so our capabilities document cannot
be that wrong?

Cheers
Andrea

4

Yes that is the behavior that I am seeing when trying to connect via ArcGIS.

This seems to be and Arc problem but the problem showed up in 9.2.
The performance was not that bad under 9.1.

It eventually shows up but only after most people would have given up.

  • Pete

On 7/17/07, Andrea Aime <aaime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Andrea Aime ha scritto:

Pete DeVries ha scritto:

Hi I have two questions:

I have been noticing that performance of WMS with Geoserver and ArcGIS
9.2 is extremely slow.
The same server works fine with uDig and QuantumGIS.

Previously I had been using ArcGIS 9.1 which seemed to work better.

This reduced performance seems to hold true for all the versions of
Geoserver 1.5 - 1.6b2
with servlet compression both on and off.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas on why this is
happening?

In Geoserver 1.5.x we changed the PNG encoder to use JAI instead of
the standard Java PNG compressor. It gave us more options, and it’s
the first time we hear about a slowdown… unfortunately no one of
us has access to ArcGis, so we only checked on browsers and open source
software, and as you stated, it all seems to be fine.

Well, I downloaded ArcGis Explorer 9.2 and the moment I give it the
capabilities link it starts chewing up one of my two cores for…
minutes, and eating 120MB of memory too in the process.
Did not wait for it to end, killed it after a little while.

Yet, we are WMS 1.1.1 compliant, so our capabilities document cannot
be that wrong?

Cheers
Andrea

–

Pete DeVries
Department of Entomology
University of Wisconsin - Madison
445 Russell Laboratories
1630 Linden Drive
Madison, WI 53706

5

Indeed. ArcGIS 9.2 (the heavyweight desktop client) is minimally supportive when it comes to WMS interoperability.

The only ESRI-created product that implements WMS on the server-side is a .war plug-in for ArcIMS, and it creates only very small 'one-maps-worth' WMS servers...each with a distinct capabilities document.

It's possible that the large size of your capdoc (particularly the SRS portion) is causing the ArcGIS Explorer 9.2 client to break down.

--saul

________________________________

From: geoserver-users-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net on behalf of Andrea Aime
Sent: Tue 7/17/2007 5:03 PM
To: Pete DeVries
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Two Questions: Geoserver Performance with ArcGIS 9.2, Querying Raster Layers?

Andrea Aime ha scritto:

Pete DeVries ha scritto:

Hi I have two questions:

1)

I have been noticing that performance of WMS with Geoserver and ArcGIS
9.2 is extremely slow.
The same server works fine with uDig and QuantumGIS.

Previously I had been using ArcGIS 9.1 which seemed to work better.

This reduced performance seems to hold true for all the versions of
Geoserver 1.5 - 1.6b2
with servlet compression both on and off.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas on why this is
happening?

In Geoserver 1.5.x we changed the PNG encoder to use JAI instead of
the standard Java PNG compressor. It gave us more options, and it's
the first time we hear about a slowdown... unfortunately no one of
us has access to ArcGis, so we only checked on browsers and open source
software, and as you stated, it all seems to be fine.

Well, I downloaded ArcGis Explorer 9.2 and the moment I give it the
capabilities link it starts chewing up one of my two cores for...
minutes, and eating 120MB of memory too in the process.
Did not wait for it to end, killed it after a little while.

Yet, we are WMS 1.1.1 compliant, so our capabilities document cannot
be that wrong?

Cheers
Andrea

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6

Since I am only serving a small number of different EPSG’s (less than 4) is it possible to set this so it returns a
smaller SRS?

Thanks!

  • Pete

On 7/17/07, Farber, Saul (EEA) <Saul.Farber@anonymised.com> wrote:

Indeed. ArcGIS 9.2 (the heavyweight desktop client) is minimally supportive when it comes to WMS interoperability.

The only ESRI-created product that implements WMS on the server-side is a .war plug-in for ArcIMS, and it creates only very small ‘one-maps-worth’ WMS servers…each with a distinct capabilities document.

It’s possible that the large size of your capdoc (particularly the SRS portion) is causing the ArcGIS Explorer 9.2 client to break down.

–saul

From: geoserver-users-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net on behalf of Andrea Aime
Sent: Tue 7/17/2007 5:03 PM
To: Pete DeVries
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Two Questions: Geoserver Performance with ArcGIS 9.2, Querying Raster Layers?

Andrea Aime ha scritto:

Pete DeVries ha scritto:

Hi I have two questions:

I have been noticing that performance of WMS with Geoserver and ArcGIS
9.2 is extremely slow.
The same server works fine with uDig and QuantumGIS.

Previously I had been using ArcGIS 9.1 which seemed to work better.

This reduced performance seems to hold true for all the versions of
Geoserver 1.5 - 1.6b2
with servlet compression both on and off.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas on why this is
happening?

In Geoserver 1.5.x we changed the PNG encoder to use JAI instead of
the standard Java PNG compressor. It gave us more options, and it’s
the first time we hear about a slowdown… unfortunately no one of
us has access to ArcGis, so we only checked on browsers and open source
software, and as you stated, it all seems to be fine.

Well, I downloaded ArcGis Explorer 9.2 and the moment I give it the
capabilities link it starts chewing up one of my two cores for…
minutes, and eating 120MB of memory too in the process.
Did not wait for it to end, killed it after a little while.

Yet, we are WMS 1.1.1 compliant, so our capabilities document cannot
be that wrong?

Cheers
Andrea

This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

–

Pete DeVries
Department of Entomology
University of Wisconsin - Madison
445 Russell Laboratories
1630 Linden Drive
Madison, WI 53706

7

Sure,

* Download the geoserver capdoc (using wget or web-browser "save-as...")
* Edit the capdoc using a text editor or XML editor. Remove anything you don't want to see, including the long list of SRS definitions

Then have ArcGIS load that capabilities document. You may need to trick ArcGIS into getting the file from a webserver, but know that apache ignores the query-string after a static file...so the query:

http://your-server/capdoc.xml?request=getcapabilities…

is the same as

http://your-server/capdoc.xml

So you can trick ArcGIS into getting your 'modified' capabilities document that way.

--saul

________________________________

From: geoserver-users-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net on behalf of Pete DeVries
Sent: Tue 7/17/2007 6:03 PM
To: Farber, Saul (EEA)
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Two Questions: Geoserver Performance with ArcGIS 9.2, Querying Raster Layers?

Since I am only serving a small number of different EPSG's (less than 4) is it possible to set this so it returns a
smaller SRS?

Thanks!

- Pete

On 7/17/07, Farber, Saul (EEA) <Saul.Farber@anonymised.com> wrote:

  Indeed. ArcGIS 9.2 (the heavyweight desktop client) is minimally supportive when it comes to WMS interoperability.
  
  The only ESRI-created product that implements WMS on the server-side is a .war plug-in for ArcIMS, and it creates only very small 'one-maps-worth' WMS servers...each with a distinct capabilities document.
  
  It's possible that the large size of your capdoc (particularly the SRS portion) is causing the ArcGIS Explorer 9.2 client to break down.
  
  --saul
  
  ________________________________
  
  From: geoserver-users-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net on behalf of Andrea Aime
  Sent: Tue 7/17/2007 5:03 PM
  To: Pete DeVries
  Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Two Questions: Geoserver Performance with ArcGIS 9.2, Querying Raster Layers?
  
  Andrea Aime ha scritto:
  > Pete DeVries ha scritto:
  >> Hi I have two questions:
  >>
  >> 1)
  >>
  >> I have been noticing that performance of WMS with Geoserver and ArcGIS
  >> 9.2 is extremely slow.
  >> The same server works fine with uDig and QuantumGIS.
  >>
  >> Previously I had been using ArcGIS 9.1 which seemed to work better.
  >>
  >> This reduced performance seems to hold true for all the versions of
  >> Geoserver 1.5 - 1.6b2
  >> with servlet compression both on and off.
  >>
  >> Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas on why this is
  >> happening?
  >
  > In Geoserver 1.5.x we changed the PNG encoder to use JAI instead of
  > the standard Java PNG compressor. It gave us more options, and it's
  > the first time we hear about a slowdown... unfortunately no one of
  > us has access to ArcGis, so we only checked on browsers and open source
  > software, and as you stated, it all seems to be fine.
  
  Well, I downloaded ArcGis Explorer 9.2 and the moment I give it the
  capabilities link it starts chewing up one of my two cores for...
  minutes, and eating 120MB of memory too in the process.
  Did not wait for it to end, killed it after a little while.
  
  Yet, we are WMS 1.1.1 compliant, so our capabilities document cannot
  be that wrong?
  
  Cheers
  Andrea
  
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
  Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
  control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
  http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
  _______________________________________________
  Geoserver-users mailing list
  Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users
  
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Pete DeVries
Department of Entomology
University of Wisconsin - Madison
445 Russell Laboratories
1630 Linden Drive
Madison, WI 53706
------------------------------------------------------------

8

Hi Saul,

Yes, Your suggestion worked, it now loads fine! :slight_smile:

It appears that ArcView can not handle the large list of SRS’s.

Thanks!

  • Pete

On 7/17/07, Farber, Saul (EEA) <Saul.Farber@anonymised.com> wrote:

Sure,

  • Download the geoserver capdoc (using wget or web-browser “save-as…”)
  • Edit the capdoc using a text editor or XML editor. Remove anything you don’t want to see, including the long list of SRS definitions

Then have ArcGIS load that capabilities document. You may need to trick ArcGIS into getting the file from a webserver, but know that apache ignores the query-string after a static file…so the query:

http://your-server/capdoc.xml?request=getcapabilities.…

is the same as

http://your-server/capdoc.xml

So you can trick ArcGIS into getting your ‘modified’ capabilities document that way.

–saul

From: geoserver-users-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net on behalf of Pete DeVries
Sent: Tue 7/17/2007 6:03 PM
To: Farber, Saul (EEA)
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Two Questions: Geoserver Performance with ArcGIS 9.2, Querying Raster Layers?

Since I am only serving a small number of different EPSG’s (less than 4) is it possible to set this so it returns a
smaller SRS?

Thanks!

  • Pete

On 7/17/07, Farber, Saul (EEA) < Saul.Farber@anonymised.com> wrote:

Indeed. ArcGIS 9.2 (the heavyweight desktop client) is minimally supportive when it comes to WMS interoperability.

The only ESRI-created product that implements WMS on the server-side is a .war plug-in for ArcIMS, and it creates only very small ‘one-maps-worth’ WMS servers…each with a distinct capabilities document.

It’s possible that the large size of your capdoc (particularly the SRS portion) is causing the ArcGIS Explorer 9.2 client to break down.

–saul

From: geoserver-users-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net on behalf of Andrea Aime
Sent: Tue 7/17/2007 5:03 PM
To: Pete DeVries
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] Two Questions: Geoserver Performance with ArcGIS 9.2, Querying Raster Layers?

Andrea Aime ha scritto:

Pete DeVries ha scritto:

Hi I have two questions:

I have been noticing that performance of WMS with Geoserver and ArcGIS
9.2 is extremely slow.
The same server works fine with uDig and QuantumGIS.

Previously I had been using ArcGIS 9.1 which seemed to work better.

This reduced performance seems to hold true for all the versions of
Geoserver 1.5 - 1.6b2
with servlet compression both on and off.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas on why this is
happening?

In Geoserver 1.5.x we changed the PNG encoder to use JAI instead of
the standard Java PNG compressor. It gave us more options, and it’s
the first time we hear about a slowdown… unfortunately no one of
us has access to ArcGis, so we only checked on browsers and open source
software, and as you stated, it all seems to be fine.

Well, I downloaded ArcGis Explorer 9.2 and the moment I give it the
capabilities link it starts chewing up one of my two cores for…
minutes, and eating 120MB of memory too in the process.
Did not wait for it to end, killed it after a little while.

Yet, we are WMS 1.1.1 compliant, so our capabilities document cannot
be that wrong?

Cheers
Andrea

This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/

Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

–

Pete DeVries
Department of Entomology
University of Wisconsin - Madison
445 Russell Laboratories
1630 Linden Drive
Madison, WI 53706

–

Pete DeVries
Department of Entomology
University of Wisconsin - Madison
445 Russell Laboratories
1630 Linden Drive
Madison, WI 53706

9

Pete DeVries ha scritto:

Hi Saul,

Yes, Your suggestion worked, it now loads fine! :slight_smile:

It appears that ArcView can not handle the large list of SRS's.

I created an issue to work around this by limiting the SRS GeoServer
will expose to the world: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GEOS-1224
Unfortunately this requires quite some work on the UI and config,
two subsystems we have to throw away and recode, so I scheduled
this fix after the rework of at least the UI.

Cheers
Andrea

10

Yay!

This has been a pita for a while now, but i cant exactly complain since i didnt log a job :slight_smile:

I am unsure on why it will be so hard to implement though, why not just throw another text input box which allows users to input CSV supported SRS codes for each featuretype eg. Supported SRS: "4326,..,...". Geoserver can then build the root <Layer> supported SRS' as a union of all child featuretype codes.

Maybe i am taking the simple approach though.

Chris

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:31:21 +0200, Andrea Aime <aaime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Pete DeVries ha scritto:

Hi Saul,

Yes, Your suggestion worked, it now loads fine! :slight_smile:

It appears that ArcView can not handle the large list of SRS's.

I created an issue to work around this by limiting the SRS GeoServer
will expose to the world: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GEOS-1224
Unfortunately this requires quite some work on the UI and config,
two subsystems we have to throw away and recode, so I scheduled
this fix after the rework of at least the UI.

Cheers
Andrea

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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_______________________________________________
Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

--
Chris Tweedie

11

Chris Tweedie ha scritto:

Yay!

This has been a pita for a while now, but i cant exactly complain
since i didnt log a job :slight_smile:

I am unsure on why it will be so hard to implement though, why not
just throw another text input box which allows users to input CSV
supported SRS codes for each featuretype eg. Supported SRS:
"4326,..,...". Geoserver can then build the root <Layer> supported
SRS' as a union of all child featuretype codes.

Maybe i am taking the simple approach though.

The current GeoServer UI and config subsystem require us to modify
a dozen files just to add a checkbox in a single page, persist and
retrieve it.
Adding a new page is worse. That's why I don't want spend a day doing
that when with a decent UI and config system the same could be done
in an hour (testing included).

Cheers
Andrea

12

Hey Andrea, what about having users delete the main HSQL SRS database and just fill out the user EPSG properties thing? Will our system work fine and default to the user ones if no main database is defined? If so then that could give people a way to set the SRSes they want support for without too much hassle, without having to do UI changes.

C

Andrea Aime wrote:

Chris Tweedie ha scritto:

Yay!

This has been a pita for a while now, but i cant exactly complain
since i didnt log a job :slight_smile:

I am unsure on why it will be so hard to implement though, why not
just throw another text input box which allows users to input CSV
supported SRS codes for each featuretype eg. Supported SRS:
"4326,..,...". Geoserver can then build the root <Layer> supported
SRS' as a union of all child featuretype codes.

Maybe i am taking the simple approach though.

The current GeoServer UI and config subsystem require us to modify
a dozen files just to add a checkbox in a single page, persist and
retrieve it.
Adding a new page is worse. That's why I don't want spend a day doing
that when with a decent UI and config system the same could be done
in an hour (testing included).

Cheers
Andrea

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
_______________________________________________
Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

!DSPAM:4005,469db978210581137850744!

13

Chris Holmes ha scritto:

Hey Andrea, what about having users delete the main HSQL SRS database and just fill out the user EPSG properties thing? Will our system work fine and default to the user ones if no main database is defined? If so then that could give people a way to set the SRSes they want support for without too much hassle, without having to do UI changes.

That won't work, the EPSG module will re-create the epsg database if missing. I'm not sure Geoserver will work if the HSQL module is not
around, but it's worth a try I guess (since we still have the fallback
of the use defined crs).

Cheers
Andrea

14

Chris Holmes ha scritto:

Hey Andrea, what about having users delete the main HSQL SRS database and just fill out the user EPSG properties thing? Will our system work fine and default to the user ones if no main database is defined? If so then that could give people a way to set the SRSes they want support for without too much hassle, without having to do UI changes.

Ok, checked and it may work in a limited way.
What you can do:
* remove epsg-hslql-x.y.z.jar from the Geoserver libraries, in geoserver/WEB-INF/lib
* populate the epsg.properties file in the user_projection dir
   with at least 4326 and 26713 (sample file attached).

Start Geoserver and it should work. But there are some
issues with this approach that make it suboptimal. The
official EPSG database contains much more information than the
WKT format, as a result we would get less accurate reprojection
when there is a datum change involved, and probably some issues
with coverage reprojection as well.

Anyways, seems like a reasonable workaround if you can live
with the above limitations.

Cheers
Andrea

epsg.properties (1.01 KB)