[Geoserver-users] W3ds

GeoServer GeoServer User
1

Hi all,
is there any 3d support in geoserver roadmap.
I have noticed something about w3ds, will it be supported in the next version of system?
Bye bye,
Matteo.

2

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: “Matteo Cusmai” <cusmaimatteo@anonymised.com>
Date: 15 Apr 2013 21:18
Subject: W3ds
To: <geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Cc:

Hi all,
is there any 3d support in geoserver roadmap.
I have noticed something about w3ds, will it be supported in the next version of system?
Bye bye,
Matteo.

3

On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Matteo Cusmai <cusmaimatteo@anonymised.com>wrote:

Hi all,
is there any 3d support in geoserver roadmap.

Define 3D. GeoServer already has some support for 2.5D data, that is, flat
geometries
that happen to have a Z in each vertex, though some operations need
improving
to properly support it (GetFeatureInfo for example).

If you refer to real solids instead, I'm not aware of plans, but you may
never know,
tomorrow someone shows up with appropriate resourcing/funding and within a
few months
we have it.

I have noticed something about w3ds, will it be supported in the next
version of system?

That's a question for the W3DS module author, cc'ed

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer training in Milan, 6th & 7th June 2013! Visit
http://geoserver.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

-------------------------------------------------------

4

On 23/04/13 15:11, Andrea Aime wrote:

On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Matteo Cusmai <cusmaimatteo@anonymised.com
<mailto:cusmaimatteo@anonymised.com>> wrote:
    Hi all,
    is there any 3d support in geoserver roadmap.
Define 3D. GeoServer already has some support for 2.5D data, that is,
flat geometries
that happen to have a Z in each vertex, though some operations need
improving
to properly support it (GetFeatureInfo for example).

One requirement for 3D is that the third dimension of points is honoured in reprojections and spatial operations. 2.5D is IMO when a third dimension is carried along for the ride but ignored for operations and reprojections. We have some tested 3D support for POINT and LINESTRING including reprojection and 3D WFS BBOX, but only on Oracle 11g with SC4O and on PostGIS 2. See the discussions here in the context of app-schema:
http://docs.geoserver.org/latest/en/developer/programming-guide/app-schema/index.html#d-tests
See also:
https://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GEOS-5148
https://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GEOS-5223
https://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GEOT-4129

Solids and TINs are AFAIK not yet supported.

If you refer to real solids instead, I'm not aware of plans, but you may
never know,
tomorrow someone shows up with appropriate resourcing/funding and within
a few months
we have it.

One of the underlying problems is that there is not yet any 3D equivalent of the Java Topology Suite (JTS) used for 2D geometric calculations. I think there might have been some mention recently of a project, but I do not know anything about it.

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies <Ben.Caradoc-Davies@anonymised.com>
Software Engineer
CSIRO Earth Science and Resource Engineering
Australian Resources Research Centre

5

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Ben Caradoc-Davies <
Ben.Caradoc-Davies@anonymised.com> wrote:

One of the underlying problems is that there is not yet any 3D equivalent
of the Java Topology Suite (JTS) used for 2D geometric calculations. I
think there might have been some mention recently of a project, but I do
not know anything about it.

You are probably referring to GeoLatte. Had a look, not too eager to use it
at the moment:
- seems to be supported by a single company
- no real solids, there is just a polyhedral surface extra class compared
to JTS (which could
  be easily built for JTS as well)
- don't see real curve support either, though there is a package talking
about curves, I don't
  see the equivalent curved geometries representations
- has not had any development in the last 3 months

That said, even if we had the perfect candidate, switching the code from
assuming JTS to
using another library (or not making assumptions about the library being
used)
would require a lot of effort, almost every class building features and
using them would have
to be modified.
Which is something that can be tacked only if the change is pretty mechanic
(search & replace level)
or if there is substantial to back the switch.

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer training in Milan, 6th & 7th June 2013! Visit
http://geoserver.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

-------------------------------------------------------

6

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Andrea Aime
<andrea.aime@anonymised.com>wrote:

Which is something that can be tacked only if the change is pretty
mechanic (search & replace level)
or if there is substantial to back the switch.

Ah hem... substantial funding

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer training in Milan, 6th & 7th June 2013! Visit
http://geoserver.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

-------------------------------------------------------

7

Hi all,

I think that there are 2 different issues here:

  1. 3D geometric analisys: it could be implemented at geotools side (i have posted a question there, too);

  2. providing 3D models over HTTP, such as XSD as W3DS could do, right?

I don’t know if Nuno Miguel have used some 3D analisys library to implement W3DS service.

BR,
Matteo.

···

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Which is something that can be tacked only if the change is pretty mechanic (search & replace level)

Ah hem… substantial funding

Cheers

Andrea

–

==
GeoServer training in Milan, 6th & 7th June 2013! Visit http://geoserver.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

or if there is substantial to back the switch.

8

Hi,

Infortunatly i have to slow down the developement of W3DS module until Jully 2013.

In meantime, I have recived several requests to improve the W3DS module.
I also have be in touch with some members of OpenLayers3 team
(the main point was to use W3DS for testing propuse in OpenLayers3 development).

Anyway, the main topic of the last requests related to W3DS was to serve Collada Models.
I already take a look at the new Kml2 module proposed by Andrea Aime and extended W3DS
styles to support the insertion of 3D Collada models.

I will make an effort to provide until the next week a correct KML reponse format for W3DS
and a basic tutorial.

Best regards,

Nuno Oliveira

···

2013/4/23 Matteo Cusmai <cusmaimatteo@anonymised.com>

Hi all,

I think that there are 2 different issues here:

  1. 3D geometric analisys: it could be implemented at geotools side (i have posted a question there, too);

  2. providing 3D models over HTTP, such as XSD as W3DS could do, right?

I don’t know if Nuno Miguel have used some 3D analisys library to implement W3DS service.

BR,
Matteo.

Try New Relic Now & We’ll Send You this Cool Shirt
New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr

Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@anonymised.comsts.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Which is something that can be tacked only if the change is pretty mechanic (search & replace level)

Ah hem… substantial funding

Cheers

Andrea

–

==
GeoServer training in Milan, 6th & 7th June 2013! Visit http://geoserver.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

or if there is substantial to back the switch.

9

Hi,

Sorry about the last mail wrong discussion.

—> I think that there are 2 different issues here:

I agree.

—> 1) 3D geometric analisys: it could be implemented at geotools side (i have posted a question there, too);

I can’t say if geotools is the best place but I also will go that way.

—> 2) providing 3D models over HTTP, such as XSD as W3DS could do, right?

Yep, this is the job of W3DS.

—> I don’t know if Nuno Miguel have used some 3D analisys library to implement W3DS service.

To implement the Geoserver W3DS module I don’t use any 3D analisys library.

Although, to prepare the data to tests the W3DS module I had the necessity to do a
heavy processing on 3D data (for example tiling 3D terrains and produce several LODs). To do this I made an
extension for GDAL\OGR which is build on CGAL (Computational Geometry Algorithms Library).

CGAL is not a “geo” ibrary but is one of the most powerful and well documented library for
3D processing i have used so far. This link provide a good overview about the library: http://www.cgal.org/Manual/latest/doc_html/cgal_manual/packages.html.

Best regards,

Nuno Oliveira

BR,
Matteo.

···

2013/4/23 Nuno Miguel Carvalho Oliveira <nmco51845@anonymised.com>

Hi,

Infortunatly i have to slow down the developement of W3DS module until Jully 2013.

In meantime, I have recived several requests to improve the W3DS module.
I also have be in touch with some members of OpenLayers3 team
(the main point was to use W3DS for testing propuse in OpenLayers3 development).

Anyway, the main topic of the last requests related to W3DS was to serve Collada Models.
I already take a look at the new Kml2 module proposed by Andrea Aime and extended W3DS
styles to support the insertion of 3D Collada models.

I will make an effort to provide until the next week a correct KML reponse format for W3DS
and a basic tutorial.

Best regards,

Nuno Oliveira

2013/4/23 Matteo Cusmai <cusmaimatteo@anonymised.com>

Hi all,

I think that there are 2 different issues here:

  1. 3D geometric analisys: it could be implemented at geotools side (i have posted a question there, too);

  2. providing 3D models over HTTP, such as XSD as W3DS could do, right?

I don’t know if Nuno Miguel have used some 3D analisys library to implement W3DS service.

BR,
Matteo.

Try New Relic Now & We’ll Send You this Cool Shirt
New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr

Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Which is something that can be tacked only if the change is pretty mechanic (search & replace level)

Ah hem… substantial funding

Cheers

Andrea

–

==
GeoServer training in Milan, 6th & 7th June 2013! Visit http://geoserver.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

or if there is substantial to back the switch.

10

Hi Nuno,

thanks for answering.
However, GDAL are c++ library, right?

I am searching a 3D java library to use instead of JTS.

Do you know anyone?

···

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Nuno Miguel Carvalho Oliveira <nmco51845@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi,

Sorry about the last mail wrong discussion.

—> I think that there are 2 different issues here:

I agree.

—> 1) 3D geometric analisys: it could be implemented at geotools side (i have posted a question there, too);

I can’t say if geotools is the best place but I also will go that way.

—> 2) providing 3D models over HTTP, such as XSD as W3DS could do, right?

Yep, this is the job of W3DS.

—> I don’t know if Nuno Miguel have used some 3D analisys library to implement W3DS service.

To implement the Geoserver W3DS module I don’t use any 3D analisys library.

Although, to prepare the data to tests the W3DS module I had the necessity to do a
heavy processing on 3D data (for example tiling 3D terrains and produce several LODs). To do this I made an
extension for GDAL\OGR which is build on CGAL (Computational Geometry Algorithms Library).

CGAL is not a “geo” ibrary but is one of the most powerful and well documented library for
3D processing i have used so far. This link provide a good overview about the library: http://www.cgal.org/Manual/latest/doc_html/cgal_manual/packages.html.

Best regards,

Nuno Oliveira

BR,
Matteo.

2013/4/23 Nuno Miguel Carvalho Oliveira <nmco51845@anonymised.com>

Hi,

Infortunatly i have to slow down the developement of W3DS module until Jully 2013.

In meantime, I have recived several requests to improve the W3DS module.
I also have be in touch with some members of OpenLayers3 team
(the main point was to use W3DS for testing propuse in OpenLayers3 development).

Anyway, the main topic of the last requests related to W3DS was to serve Collada Models.
I already take a look at the new Kml2 module proposed by Andrea Aime and extended W3DS
styles to support the insertion of 3D Collada models.

I will make an effort to provide until the next week a correct KML reponse format for W3DS
and a basic tutorial.

Best regards,

Nuno Oliveira

2013/4/23 Matteo Cusmai <cusmaimatteo@anonymised.com>

Hi all,

I think that there are 2 different issues here:

  1. 3D geometric analisys: it could be implemented at geotools side (i have posted a question there, too);

  2. providing 3D models over HTTP, such as XSD as W3DS could do, right?

I don’t know if Nuno Miguel have used some 3D analisys library to implement W3DS service.

BR,
Matteo.

Try New Relic Now & We’ll Send You this Cool Shirt
New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service
that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr

Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Which is something that can be tacked only if the change is pretty mechanic (search & replace level)

Ah hem… substantial funding

Cheers

Andrea

–

==
GeoServer training in Milan, 6th & 7th June 2013! Visit http://geoserver.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

or if there is substantial to back the switch.

11

Hi,

2013/4/23 Matteo Cusmai <cusmaimatteo@anonymised.com>

Hi Nuno,
thanks for answering.
However, GDAL are c++ library, right?

Yep your right (sorry i forgot you need a Java library)

I am searching a 3D java library to use instead of JTS.
Do you know anyone?

Sorry I don't know any 3D processing library for Java so good as CGAL (Java
and 3D is not the big love).
Maybe the folks of http://52north.org/communities/3d-community can be more
helpful that me ?

Best regards,

Nuno Oliveira

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Nuno Miguel Carvalho Oliveira <
nmco51845@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi,

Sorry about the last mail wrong discussion.

---> I think that there are 2 different issues here:

I agree.

---> 1) 3D geometric analisys: it could be implemented at geotools side
(i have posted a question there, too);

I can't say if geotools is the best place but I also will go that way.

---> 2) providing 3D models over HTTP, such as XSD as W3DS could do,
right?

Yep, this is the job of W3DS.

---> I don't know if Nuno Miguel have used some 3D analisys library to
implement W3DS service.

To implement the Geoserver W3DS module I don't use any 3D analisys
library.

Although, to prepare the data to tests the W3DS module I had the
necessity to do a
heavy processing on 3D data (for example tiling 3D terrains and produce
several LODs). To do this I made an
extension for GDAL\OGR which is build on CGAL (Computational Geometry
Algorithms Library).

CGAL is not a "geo" ibrary but is one of the most powerful and well
documented library for
3D processing i have used so far. This link provide a good overview about
the library:
http://www.cgal.org/Manual/latest/doc_html/cgal_manual/packages.html.

Best regards,

Nuno Oliveira

BR,
Matteo.

2013/4/23 Nuno Miguel Carvalho Oliveira <nmco51845@anonymised.com>

Hi,

Infortunatly i have to slow down the developement of W3DS module until
Jully 2013.

In meantime, I have recived several requests to improve the W3DS module.
I also have be in touch with some members of OpenLayers3 team
(the main point was to use W3DS for testing propuse in OpenLayers3
development).

Anyway, the main topic of the last requests related to W3DS was to serve
Collada Models.
I already take a look at the new Kml2 module proposed by Andrea Aime and
extended W3DS
styles to support the insertion of 3D Collada models.

I will make an effort to provide until the next week a correct KML
reponse format for W3DS
and a basic tutorial.

Best regards,

Nuno Oliveira

2013/4/23 Matteo Cusmai <cusmaimatteo@anonymised.com>

Hi all,
I think that there are 2 different issues here:
1) 3D geometric analisys: it could be implemented at geotools side (i
have posted a question there, too);
2) providing 3D models over HTTP, such as XSD as W3DS could do, right?

I don't know if Nuno Miguel have used some 3D analisys library to
implement W3DS service.

BR,
Matteo.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Andrea Aime <
andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Andrea Aime <
andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Which is something that can be tacked only if the change is pretty
mechanic (search & replace level)
or if there is substantial to back the switch.

Ah hem... substantial funding

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer training in Milan, 6th & 7th June 2013! Visit
http://geoserver.geo-solutions.it for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

-------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
service
that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr
_______________________________________________
Geoserver-users mailing list
Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users