[Geoserver-users] [WFS-T] Incorrect ID returned for inserted features in shape file

Steggink_Frank · April 3, 2007, 3:40pm

Hi all,

Does anyone know if it is a known issue that the wrong ID is returned while features are inserted into a shape file? I’m performing the following transaction operation.

(The feature itself is called “transaction”; hopefully that’s not too confusing)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> 47124.76582,539411.3954 42170.60998,575421.6508 47455.04288,566501.6793 57363.35455,578725.344 69253.32857,540732.8727 61987.23334,548661.7363 47124.76582,539411.3954

</gml:LinearRing>
</gml:outerBoundaryIs>
</gml:Polygon>
</gml:polygonMember>
</gml:MultiPolygon>
</the_geom>
<GM_CODE>gm_9876</GM_CODE>
<GM_NAAM>post response</GM_NAAM>
geen

I’m getting the following response:
<wfs:WFS_TransactionResponse version=“1.0.0” xmlns:wfs=“http://www.opengis.net/wfs” xmlns:ogc=“http://www.opengis.net/ogc” xmlns:xsi=“http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance” xsi:schemaLocation=“http://www.opengis.net/wfs http://localhost:8080/geoserver/schemas/wfs/1.0.0/WFS-transaction.xsd”>

<wfs:InsertResult handle=“http://www.example.org/cbs:transaction#449c8cab-4971-4f29-961f-2fa3b309ffb6”>
<ogc:FeatureId fid=“new0” />
</wfs:InsertResult>

wfs:TransactionResult
wfs:Status
<wfs:SUCCESS />
</wfs:Status>
</wfs:TransactionResult>

</wfs:WFS_TransactionResponse>

As you can see, the ID of the new feature is “new0”. However, when I query the entire layer, I’m not receiving a feature with this ID, but the id is, for example, “transaction.480”. Is this a known issue while using shapefiles? I’m using Geoserver 1.4.0.

Regards,

Frank

Justin_Deoliveira · April 3, 2007, 3:54pm

Hi Frank,

Yes this is a known issue. There are problems when you use transactions
with any other data stores besides postgis as far as i know. The others
will come up with an identifier during a transaction, but that then
changes when the transaction is committed and the new identifiers are
not reported back.

-Justin

Frank.Steggink@anonymised.com wrote:

Hi all,

Does anyone know if it is a known issue that the wrong ID is returned
while features are inserted into a shape file? I'm performing the
following transaction operation.

(The feature itself is called "transaction"; hopefully that's not too
confusing)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<Transaction xmlns:gml="http://www.opengis.net/gml"
xmlns:cbs="http://www.example.org/cbs"
xmlns:xs="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
xmlns:xsd2000="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/XMLSchema"
xmlns:ows="http://www.opengis.net/ows"
xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
xmlns:ogc="http://www.opengis.net/ogc" version="1.0.0" service="WFS"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.opengis.net/wfs
../wfs/1.0.0/WFS-basic.xsd"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xmlns="http://www.opengis.net/wfs">

  <Insert
handle="http://www.example.org/cbs:transaction#449c8cab-4971-4f29-961f-2fa3b309ffb6">

    <transaction xmlns="http://www.example.org/cbs">
        <the_geom>
                <gml:MultiPolygon xmlns:gml="http://www.opengis.net/gml">
                        <gml:polygonMember>
                                <gml:Polygon>
                                        <gml:outerBoundaryIs>
                                                <gml:LinearRing>

<gml:coordinates>47124.76582,539411.3954 42170.60998,575421.6508
47455.04288,566501.6793 57363.35455,578725.344 69253.32857,540732.8727
61987.23334,548661.7363 47124.76582,539411.3954</gml:coordinates>

                                                </gml:LinearRing>
                                        </gml:outerBoundaryIs>
                                </gml:Polygon>
                        </gml:polygonMember>
                </gml:MultiPolygon>
        </the_geom>
        <GM_CODE>gm_9876</GM_CODE>
        <GM_NAAM>post response</GM_NAAM>
        <POSTCODE>geen</POSTCODE>
        
    </transaction>
  </Insert>
</Transaction>

I'm getting the following response:
<wfs:WFS_TransactionResponse version="1.0.0"
xmlns:wfs="http://www.opengis.net/wfs"
xmlns:ogc="http://www.opengis.net/ogc"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.opengis.net/wfs
_http://localhost:8080/geoserver/schemas/wfs/1.0.0/WFS-transaction.xsd_">

        <wfs:InsertResult
handle="http://www.example.org/cbs:transaction#449c8cab-4971-4f29-961f-2fa3b309ffb6">

                <ogc:FeatureId fid="new0" />
        </wfs:InsertResult>

        <wfs:TransactionResult>
                <wfs:Status>
                        <wfs:SUCCESS />
                </wfs:Status>
        </wfs:TransactionResult>

</wfs:WFS_TransactionResponse>

As you can see, the ID of the new feature is "new0". However, when I
query the entire layer, I'm not receiving a feature with this ID, but
the id is, for example, "transaction.480". Is this a known issue while
using shapefiles? I'm using Geoserver 1.4.0.

Regards,

Frank

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Steggink_Frank · April 3, 2007, 4:47pm

Hi Justin,

Thank you for the answer. Can you refer me to an e-mail conversation (on
the users or dev list) which deals on this topic? One of our customers
intend to use Geoserver as their WFS server. I'm not sure which data
store they are going to use, but probably it isn't Postgis. I'm
interested in more information on behalf of them.

Regards,

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Deoliveira [mailto:jdeolive@anonymised.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 11:54
To: Frank Steggink
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] [WFS-T] Incorrect ID returned for
inserted features in shape file

Hi Frank,

Yes this is a known issue. There are problems when you use transactions
with any other data stores besides postgis as far as i know. The others
will come up with an identifier during a transaction, but that then
changes when the transaction is committed and the new identifiers are
not reported back.

-Justin

Frank.Steggink@anonymised.com wrote:

Hi all,

Does anyone know if it is a known issue that the wrong ID is returned
while features are inserted into a shape file? I'm performing the
following transaction operation.

(The feature itself is called "transaction"; hopefully that's not too
confusing)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> <Transaction
xmlns:gml="http://www.opengis.net/gml"
xmlns:cbs="http://www.example.org/cbs"
xmlns:xs="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
xmlns:xsd2000="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/XMLSchema"
xmlns:ows="http://www.opengis.net/ows"
xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
xmlns:ogc="http://www.opengis.net/ogc" version="1.0.0" service="WFS"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.opengis.net/wfs
../wfs/1.0.0/WFS-basic.xsd"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xmlns="http://www.opengis.net/wfs">

  <Insert
handle="http://www.example.org/cbs:transaction#449c8cab-4971-4f29-961f
-2fa3b309ffb6">

    <transaction xmlns="http://www.example.org/cbs">
        <the_geom>
                <gml:MultiPolygon

xmlns:gml="http://www.opengis.net/gml">

<gml:polygonMember>
                                <gml:Polygon>
                                        <gml:outerBoundaryIs>
                                                <gml:LinearRing>

<gml:coordinates>47124.76582,539411.3954 42170.60998,575421.6508
47455.04288,566501.6793 57363.35455,578725.344 69253.32857,540732.8727
61987.23334,548661.7363 47124.76582,539411.3954</gml:coordinates>

                                                </gml:LinearRing>
                                        </gml:outerBoundaryIs>
                                </gml:Polygon>
                        </gml:polygonMember>
                </gml:MultiPolygon>
        </the_geom>
        <GM_CODE>gm_9876</GM_CODE>
        <GM_NAAM>post response</GM_NAAM>
        <POSTCODE>geen</POSTCODE>
        
    </transaction>
  </Insert>
</Transaction>

I'm getting the following response:
<wfs:WFS_TransactionResponse version="1.0.0"
xmlns:wfs="http://www.opengis.net/wfs"
xmlns:ogc="http://www.opengis.net/ogc"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.opengis.net/wfs
_http://localhost:8080/geoserver/schemas/wfs/1.0.0/WFS-transaction.xsd
_">

        <wfs:InsertResult
handle="http://www.example.org/cbs:transaction#449c8cab-4971-4f29-961f
-2fa3b309ffb6">

                <ogc:FeatureId fid="new0" />
        </wfs:InsertResult>

        <wfs:TransactionResult>
                <wfs:Status>
                        <wfs:SUCCESS />
                </wfs:Status>
        </wfs:TransactionResult>

</wfs:WFS_TransactionResponse>

As you can see, the ID of the new feature is "new0". However, when I
query the entire layer, I'm not receiving a feature with this ID, but
the id is, for example, "transaction.480". Is this a known issue while

using shapefiles? I'm using Geoserver 1.4.0.

Regards,

Frank

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Justin_Deoliveira · April 3, 2007, 5:31pm

I think there a few. The problem is that its kind of a big deal to fix
because it involves changing some api in the underlying geotools library.

The problem with shapefiles ( and any other file based data source ) is
that they are not meant to do transactions, so geoserver / geotools
really just fakes it, this is the reason you get "fake" identifiers when
inserting new features, and they they are changed when you actually go
to physically insert the features.

But with a database like postgis, you actually have live transactions at
the database level so the id's it generates during a transaction are the
real identifiers. Theoretically you can achieve this with any data
source that is databased based ( assuming the database does transactions
). However postgis and arcsde are the only ones I would deem as reliable
and well maintained. Although I am not sure what support for
transactions in arcsde is like, someone more knowledgeable can pipe up
there.

I will see if I can dig up some threads which go more into the technical
details. Feel free to ask any more questions about this topic.

-Justin

Frank.Steggink@anonymised.com wrote:

Hi Justin,

Thank you for the answer. Can you refer me to an e-mail conversation (on
the users or dev list) which deals on this topic? One of our customers
intend to use Geoserver as their WFS server. I'm not sure which data
store they are going to use, but probably it isn't Postgis. I'm
interested in more information on behalf of them.

Regards,

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Deoliveira [mailto:jdeolive@anonymised.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 11:54
To: Frank Steggink
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] [WFS-T] Incorrect ID returned for
inserted features in shape file

Hi Frank,

Yes this is a known issue. There are problems when you use transactions
with any other data stores besides postgis as far as i know. The others
will come up with an identifier during a transaction, but that then
changes when the transaction is committed and the new identifiers are
not reported back.

-Justin

Frank.Steggink@anonymised.com wrote:

Hi all,

Does anyone know if it is a known issue that the wrong ID is returned
while features are inserted into a shape file? I'm performing the
following transaction operation.

(The feature itself is called "transaction"; hopefully that's not too
confusing)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> <Transaction
xmlns:gml="http://www.opengis.net/gml"
xmlns:cbs="http://www.example.org/cbs"
xmlns:xs="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
xmlns:xsd2000="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/XMLSchema"
xmlns:ows="http://www.opengis.net/ows"
xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
xmlns:ogc="http://www.opengis.net/ogc" version="1.0.0" service="WFS"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.opengis.net/wfs
../wfs/1.0.0/WFS-basic.xsd"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xmlns="http://www.opengis.net/wfs">

  <Insert
handle="http://www.example.org/cbs:transaction#449c8cab-4971-4f29-961f
-2fa3b309ffb6">

    <transaction xmlns="http://www.example.org/cbs">
        <the_geom>
                <gml:MultiPolygon

xmlns:gml="http://www.opengis.net/gml">

                        <gml:polygonMember>
                                <gml:Polygon>
                                        <gml:outerBoundaryIs>
                                                <gml:LinearRing>

<gml:coordinates>47124.76582,539411.3954 42170.60998,575421.6508
47455.04288,566501.6793 57363.35455,578725.344 69253.32857,540732.8727
61987.23334,548661.7363 47124.76582,539411.3954</gml:coordinates>

                                                </gml:LinearRing>
                                        </gml:outerBoundaryIs>
                                </gml:Polygon>
                        </gml:polygonMember>
                </gml:MultiPolygon>
        </the_geom>
        <GM_CODE>gm_9876</GM_CODE>
        <GM_NAAM>post response</GM_NAAM>
        <POSTCODE>geen</POSTCODE>
        
    </transaction>
  </Insert>
</Transaction>

I'm getting the following response:
<wfs:WFS_TransactionResponse version="1.0.0"
xmlns:wfs="http://www.opengis.net/wfs"
xmlns:ogc="http://www.opengis.net/ogc"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.opengis.net/wfs
_http://localhost:8080/geoserver/schemas/wfs/1.0.0/WFS-transaction.xsd
_">

        <wfs:InsertResult
handle="http://www.example.org/cbs:transaction#449c8cab-4971-4f29-961f
-2fa3b309ffb6">

                <ogc:FeatureId fid="new0" />
        </wfs:InsertResult>

        <wfs:TransactionResult>
                <wfs:Status>
                        <wfs:SUCCESS />
                </wfs:Status>
        </wfs:TransactionResult>

</wfs:WFS_TransactionResponse>

As you can see, the ID of the new feature is "new0". However, when I
query the entire layer, I'm not receiving a feature with this ID, but
the id is, for example, "transaction.480". Is this a known issue while

using shapefiles? I'm using Geoserver 1.4.0.

Regards,

Frank

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Andrea_Aime3 · April 3, 2007, 5:52pm

Thank you for the answer. Can you refer me to an e-mail conversation (on
the users or dev list) which deals on this topic? One of our customers
intend to use Geoserver as their WFS server. I'm not sure which data
store they are going to use, but probably it isn't Postgis. I'm
interested in more information on behalf of them.

If you're thinking Oracle, at the moment we're not up to snuff WFS-T wise, but we're not that far away. It's just that we don't handle
properly the projection informations stored in Oracle.

Some custom development would be needed, and we're looking for someone
to sponsor it.

Cheeres
Andrea

Andrea_Aime3 · April 3, 2007, 5:55pm

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

I think there a few. The problem is that its kind of a big deal to fix
because it involves changing some api in the underlying geotools library.

The problem with shapefiles ( and any other file based data source ) is
that they are not meant to do transactions, so geoserver / geotools
really just fakes it, this is the reason you get "fake" identifiers when
inserting new features, and they they are changed when you actually go
to physically insert the features.

The issues with identifiers is really that we lake a fid mapper support
for shapefiles, that is, the ability to use a string attribute as an
identifier. If we could do that, we could use some GUID generation scheme to build stable FIDs.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any plan of doing that, but it could
be done as custom development, or we could direct you in performing
the changes.

Cheers
Andrea

Steggink_Frank · April 3, 2007, 6:39pm

Andrea, Justin,

The ID's for shapefile features seem to be autogenerated: featurename +
"." + index. So, while features are inserted in a shapefile, it is very
easy to "generate" a new ID and return it (just the number of elements +
1). However, this method will fail hopelessly in case features are
deleted. Then the entire numbering scheme will break. So, mapping (to an
existing property?) would be a better solution, but who is responsible
for generating the new ID? It opens up a lot of issues, and they're not
efficient enough. For instance, they need to be entirely rewritten if
the geometry changes. Like Justin said, shapefiles are not suitable for
transactions, so ask yourself what you gain when you support this
feature.

With regard to my use of shapefiles: they are very convenient to quickly
load data and for testing. Much easier than setting up PostGIS or
another database. (I've never set up PostgreSQL, and did not want to
offer some time to learn it.) Since I didn't notice any warnings about
not using shapefiles for transactions, I gave it a try. I was actually
surprised that I could insert a new feature; I didn't expect that

Regards,

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Aime [mailto:aaime@anonymised.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 13:55
To: Justin Deoliveira
Cc: Frank Steggink; geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] [WFS-T] Incorrect ID returned for
inserted features in shape file

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

I think there a few. The problem is that its kind of a big deal to fix

because it involves changing some api in the underlying geotools

library.

The problem with shapefiles ( and any other file based data source )
is that they are not meant to do transactions, so geoserver / geotools

really just fakes it, this is the reason you get "fake" identifiers
when inserting new features, and they they are changed when you
actually go to physically insert the features.

The issues with identifiers is really that we lake a fid mapper support
for shapefiles, that is, the ability to use a string attribute as an
identifier. If we could do that, we could use some GUID generation
scheme to build stable FIDs.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any plan of doing that, but it could be
done as custom development, or we could direct you in performing the
changes.

Cheers
Andrea

Chris_Holmes1 · April 3, 2007, 6:46pm

Andrea Aime wrote:

Thank you for the answer. Can you refer me to an e-mail conversation (on
the users or dev list) which deals on this topic? One of our customers
intend to use Geoserver as their WFS server. I'm not sure which data
store they are going to use, but probably it isn't Postgis. I'm
interested in more information on behalf of them.

If you're thinking Oracle, at the moment we're not up to snuff WFS-T wise, but we're not that far away. It's just that we don't handle
properly the projection informations stored in Oracle.

AFAIK Oracle should return FID's properly. I've never heard issues with that. I believe everything except Shapefiles return the right FIDs. But I could be wrong.

Some custom development would be needed, and we're looking for someone
to sponsor it.

Amen. Oracle is close to being very, very good. But for WFS-T there are a few improvements needed.

Chris

Cheeres
Andrea

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Chris_Holmes1 · April 3, 2007, 6:54pm

Frank.Steggink@anonymised.com wrote:

Andrea, Justin,

The ID's for shapefile features seem to be autogenerated: featurename +
"." + index. So, while features are inserted in a shapefile, it is very
easy to "generate" a new ID and return it (just the number of elements +
1). However, this method will fail hopelessly in case features are
deleted. Then the entire numbering scheme will break. So, mapping (to an
existing property?) would be a better solution, but who is responsible
for generating the new ID? It opens up a lot of issues, and they're not
efficient enough. For instance, they need to be entirely rewritten if
the geometry changes. Like Justin said, shapefiles are not suitable for
transactions, so ask yourself what you gain when you support this
feature.

Our eventual plan is to use an embedded database like H2 or derby. When someone adds a shapefile we'd basically transparently dump it into the embedded database. This then gives us full atomic commits (something shapefiles also lack), and much better FID generation, among other things. If users want to get the shapefile back out they can do an export, indeed we can probably make the whole thing transparent to users so they don't even know we've got a better transaction engine going.

The only missing piece is a spatially enabled embeddable database. We're pretty close with David's spatial db in a box work: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/SpatialDBBox But we'd need a spatial index for performance.

With regard to my use of shapefiles: they are very convenient to quickly
load data and for testing. Much easier than setting up PostGIS or
another database. (I've never set up PostgreSQL, and did not want to
offer some time to learn it.) Since I didn't notice any warnings about
not using shapefiles for transactions, I gave it a try. I was actually
surprised that I could insert a new feature; I didn't expect that

Yeah, that's why we don't entirely disable transactions on them, it's nice to easily show off that we can do transactions. This is what we gain by supporting shapefiles. We do say that running GeoServer in production with shapefiles and transactions is a no no: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOSDOC/GeoServer+in+Production+Environment#GeoServerinProductionEnvironment-UseaSpatialDatabase

Chris

Regards,

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Aime [mailto:aaime@anonymised.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 13:55
To: Justin Deoliveira
Cc: Frank Steggink; geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] [WFS-T] Incorrect ID returned for
inserted features in shape file

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

I think there a few. The problem is that its kind of a big deal to fix

because it involves changing some api in the underlying geotools

library.

The problem with shapefiles ( and any other file based data source ) is that they are not meant to do transactions, so geoserver / geotools

really just fakes it, this is the reason you get "fake" identifiers when inserting new features, and they they are changed when you actually go to physically insert the features.

The issues with identifiers is really that we lake a fid mapper support
for shapefiles, that is, the ability to use a string attribute as an
identifier. If we could do that, we could use some GUID generation
scheme to build stable FIDs.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any plan of doing that, but it could be
done as custom development, or we could direct you in performing the
changes.

Cheers
Andrea

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Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
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Chris Holmes
The Open Planning Project
http://topp.openplans.org