[Geoserver-users] What is Vector Big Data to GeoServer?

[Paul_Wittle]

Hi,

We have been finding that GeoServer struggles to render large datasets from our Oracle database but we were wondering if there are known levels at which you ought to split datasets for GeoServer?

I have seen plenty of information regarding Raster data and when this is considered ‘big data’ but I have not seen much documentation on vector datasets from spatial databases.

To give an idea of the scale, we are talking about addresses for a whole country at the moment but I’m sure there may be any number of datasets and factors. To give another example, would the limit on complex polygons differ from simple points?

Would be great to hear some views or read some linked articles.

Thanks,

Paul Wittle

[Jonathan]

Hi Paul,
It depends how large your datasets are. I know there are plenty of instances of GeoServer being fed by an Oracle DB with millions of features; Warwickshire’s implementation has MasterMap features for a large chunk of the urban midlands, there are around 30 million vector features between the 6 topography layers and it works quite well, albeit with a little bit of clever pre-tiling to help things along. There should be no need to split datasets.

I’m guessing your addresses for the entire country is the AddressBase Premium product. In that case you should only have a few million features depending on how you loaded it. Have you joined it all together in a single table, a materialised view, or a regular view? The later will have abysmal performance no mater what you do.

Your email isn’t clear on what your system is having the problems with. Can you give us more details.

Things to bear in mind:

• Do you have spatial indexes?
• Do you have indexes on other columns that you’re using for queries. In ABP it may be one (or several) of the various address columns for WFS GetFeature queries.
• Does it work if you use a simple style for rendering rather than something complicated?

There are a number of other things you can do to optimise your GeoServer install.

Simon’s answer here may be helpful:
http://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/157287/how-to-optimise-rendering-of-layer-groups-in-geoserver

And this part of the docs:
http://docs.geoserver.org/stable/en/user/production/index.html

Cheers,
Jonathan

···

On 19/01/2016 08:01, Paul Wittle wrote:

Hi,

We have been finding that GeoServer struggles to render large datasets from our Oracle database but we were wondering if there are known levels at which you ought to split datasets for GeoServer?

I have seen plenty of information regarding Raster data and when this is considered ‘big data’ but I have not seen much documentation on vector datasets from spatial databases.

To give an idea of the scale, we are talking about addresses for a whole country at the moment but I’m sure there may be any number of datasets and factors. To give another example, would the limit on complex polygons differ from simple points?

Would be great to hear some views or read some linked articles.

Thanks,

Paul Wittle

“This e-mail is intended for the named addressee(s) only and may contain information about individuals or other sensitive information and should be handled accordingly. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive it for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you have received this email in error, kindly disregard the content of the message and notify the sender immediately. Please be aware that all email may be subject to recording and/or monitoring in accordance with relevant legislation.”

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[Paul_Wittle]

Hi Jonathan,

You are correct in your assumption of AddressBase Premium and yes we do have all the normal methods including spatial indices and pre-seeded caches.

The issue is when people hit a tile that doesn’t exist. This is bound to happen eventually and definitely happens when you seed the cache.

The issue we have noticed is that that layer takes an age to draw tiles when they are not in the cache and we wondered how to speed it up. There is no issue from the Oracle point of view, we can query it and it returns reasonably quickly but the GeoServer is a different. The style is just a couple of coloured triangles based on property type so it is not complex.

If you give the GeoServer a materialised view of a smaller area it is fine and fast, but give it the whole dataset with a spatial index and it is horrifically slow. We thought perhaps there is a known size by which you ought to split the data into multiple materialised views / layers and just make it a layer group?

Thanks,

Paul

···

From: Jonathan [mailto:jonathan-lists@…7221…]
Sent: 19 January 2016 10:49
To: Paul Wittle
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] What is Vector Big Data to GeoServer?

Hi Paul,
It depends how large your datasets are. I know there are plenty of instances of GeoServer being fed by an Oracle DB with millions of features; Warwickshire’s implementation has MasterMap features for a large chunk of the urban midlands, there are around 30 million vector features between the 6 topography layers and it works quite well, albeit with a little bit of clever pre-tiling to help things along. There should be no need to split datasets.

I’m guessing your addresses for the entire country is the AddressBase Premium product. In that case you should only have a few million features depending on how you loaded it. Have you joined it all together in a single table, a materialised view, or a regular view? The later will have abysmal performance no mater what you do.

Your email isn’t clear on what your system is having the problems with. Can you give us more details.

Things to bear in mind:

• Do you have spatial indexes?
• Do you have indexes on other columns that you’re using for queries. In ABP it may be one (or several) of the various address columns for WFS GetFeature queries.
• Does it work if you use a simple style for rendering rather than something complicated?

There are a number of other things you can do to optimise your GeoServer install.

Simon’s answer here may be helpful:
http://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/157287/how-to-optimise-rendering-of-layer-groups-in-geoserver

And this part of the docs:
http://docs.geoserver.org/stable/en/user/production/index.html

Cheers,
Jonathan

On 19/01/2016 08:01, Paul Wittle wrote:

Hi,

We have been finding that GeoServer struggles to render large datasets from our Oracle database but we were wondering if there are known levels at which you ought to split datasets for GeoServer?

I have seen plenty of information regarding Raster data and when this is considered ‘big data’ but I have not seen much documentation on vector datasets from spatial databases.

To give an idea of the scale, we are talking about addresses for a whole country at the moment but I’m sure there may be any number of datasets and factors. To give another example, would the limit on complex polygons differ from simple points?

Would be great to hear some views or read some linked articles.

Thanks,

Paul Wittle

“This e-mail is intended for the named addressee(s) only and may contain information about individuals or other sensitive information and should be handled accordingly. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive it for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you have received this email in error, kindly disregard the content of the message and notify the sender immediately. Please be aware that all email may be subject to recording and/or monitoring in accordance with relevant legislation.”

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[Chris_Snider]

Hi Paul,

Are you returning the complete dataset for each zoom level or do you have scale dependent rules in the SLD? If you are returning all features for all zoom levels, you are potentially bumping into the extra code for label positioning etc…

···

Chris Snider

Senior Software Engineer

Intelligent Software Solutions, Inc.

From: Paul Wittle [mailto:P.Wittle@…7193…]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 7:53 AM
To: jonathan-lists@…7221…
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] What is Vector Big Data to GeoServer?

Hi Jonathan,

You are correct in your assumption of AddressBase Premium and yes we do have all the normal methods including spatial indices and pre-seeded caches.

The issue is when people hit a tile that doesn’t exist. This is bound to happen eventually and definitely happens when you seed the cache.

The issue we have noticed is that that layer takes an age to draw tiles when they are not in the cache and we wondered how to speed it up. There is no issue from the Oracle point of view, we can query it and it returns reasonably quickly but the GeoServer is a different. The style is just a couple of coloured triangles based on property type so it is not complex.

If you give the GeoServer a materialised view of a smaller area it is fine and fast, but give it the whole dataset with a spatial index and it is horrifically slow. We thought perhaps there is a known size by which you ought to split the data into multiple materialised views / layers and just make it a layer group?

Thanks,

Paul

From: Jonathan [mailto:jonathan-lists@…7221…]
Sent: 19 January 2016 10:49
To: Paul Wittle
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] What is Vector Big Data to GeoServer?

Hi Paul,
It depends how large your datasets are. I know there are plenty of instances of GeoServer being fed by an Oracle DB with millions of features; Warwickshire’s implementation has MasterMap features for a large chunk of the urban midlands, there are around 30 million vector features between the 6 topography layers and it works quite well, albeit with a little bit of clever pre-tiling to help things along. There should be no need to split datasets.

I’m guessing your addresses for the entire country is the AddressBase Premium product. In that case you should only have a few million features depending on how you loaded it. Have you joined it all together in a single table, a materialised view, or a regular view? The later will have abysmal performance no mater what you do.

Your email isn’t clear on what your system is having the problems with. Can you give us more details.

Things to bear in mind:

• Do you have spatial indexes?
• Do you have indexes on other columns that you’re using for queries. In ABP it may be one (or several) of the various address columns for WFS GetFeature queries.
• Does it work if you use a simple style for rendering rather than something complicated?

There are a number of other things you can do to optimise your GeoServer install.

Simon’s answer here may be helpful:
http://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/157287/how-to-optimise-rendering-of-layer-groups-in-geoserver

And this part of the docs:
http://docs.geoserver.org/stable/en/user/production/index.html

Cheers,
Jonathan

On 19/01/2016 08:01, Paul Wittle wrote:

Hi,

We have been finding that GeoServer struggles to render large datasets from our Oracle database but we were wondering if there are known levels at which you ought to split datasets for GeoServer?

I have seen plenty of information regarding Raster data and when this is considered ‘big data’ but I have not seen much documentation on vector datasets from spatial databases.

To give an idea of the scale, we are talking about addresses for a whole country at the moment but I’m sure there may be any number of datasets and factors. To give another example, would the limit on complex polygons differ from simple points?

Would be great to hear some views or read some linked articles.

Thanks,

Paul Wittle

“This e-mail is intended for the named addressee(s) only and may contain information about individuals or other sensitive information and should be handled accordingly. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive it for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you have received this email in error, kindly disregard the content of the message and notify the sender immediately. Please be aware that all email may be subject to recording and/or monitoring in accordance with relevant legislation.”

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[Kirk_Victor]

Do you have indexes on the properties that you use in the SLD? Are you using meta-tiling, if you have that set high it will take a long time to render.

I’d recommend turning the logging up in geoserver to get the query it is using and analysing that in oracle. That could give an indication to what is going on.

···

From: Paul Wittle [mailto:P.Wittle@…7193…]
Sent: 19 January 2016 14:53
To: jonathan-lists@…7221…
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] What is Vector Big Data to GeoServer?

Hi Jonathan,

You are correct in your assumption of AddressBase Premium and yes we do have all the normal methods including spatial indices and pre-seeded caches.

The issue is when people hit a tile that doesn’t exist. This is bound to happen eventually and definitely happens when you seed the cache.

The issue we have noticed is that that layer takes an age to draw tiles when they are not in the cache and we wondered how to speed it up. There is no issue from the Oracle point of view, we can query it and it returns reasonably quickly but the GeoServer is a different. The style is just a couple of coloured triangles based on property type so it is not complex.

If you give the GeoServer a materialised view of a smaller area it is fine and fast, but give it the whole dataset with a spatial index and it is horrifically slow. We thought perhaps there is a known size by which you ought to split the data into multiple materialised views / layers and just make it a layer group?

Thanks,

Paul

From: Jonathan [mailto:jonathan-lists@…7221…]
Sent: 19 January 2016 10:49
To: Paul Wittle
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] What is Vector Big Data to GeoServer?

Hi Paul,
It depends how large your datasets are. I know there are plenty of instances of GeoServer being fed by an Oracle DB with millions of features; Warwickshire’s implementation has MasterMap features for a large chunk of the urban midlands, there are around 30 million vector features between the 6 topography layers and it works quite well, albeit with a little bit of clever pre-tiling to help things along. There should be no need to split datasets.

I’m guessing your addresses for the entire country is the AddressBase Premium product. In that case you should only have a few million features depending on how you loaded it. Have you joined it all together in a single table, a materialised view, or a regular view? The later will have abysmal performance no mater what you do.

Your email isn’t clear on what your system is having the problems with. Can you give us more details.

Things to bear in mind:

• Do you have spatial indexes?
• Do you have indexes on other columns that you’re using for queries. In ABP it may be one (or several) of the various address columns for WFS GetFeature queries.
• Does it work if you use a simple style for rendering rather than something complicated?

There are a number of other things you can do to optimise your GeoServer install.

Simon’s answer here may be helpful:
http://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/157287/how-to-optimise-rendering-of-layer-groups-in-geoserver

And this part of the docs:
http://docs.geoserver.org/stable/en/user/production/index.html

Cheers,
Jonathan

On 19/01/2016 08:01, Paul Wittle wrote:

Hi,

We have been finding that GeoServer struggles to render large datasets from our Oracle database but we were wondering if there are known levels at which you ought to split datasets for GeoServer?

I have seen plenty of information regarding Raster data and when this is considered ‘big data’ but I have not seen much documentation on vector datasets from spatial databases.

To give an idea of the scale, we are talking about addresses for a whole country at the moment but I’m sure there may be any number of datasets and factors. To give another example, would the limit on complex polygons differ from simple points?

Would be great to hear some views or read some linked articles.

Thanks,

Paul Wittle

“This e-mail is intended for the named addressee(s) only and may contain information about individuals or other sensitive information and should be handled accordingly. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive it for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you have received this email in error, kindly disregard the content of the message and notify the sender immediately. Please be aware that all email may be subject to recording and/or monitoring in accordance with relevant legislation.”

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[Andrea_Aime4]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 6:53 AM, Paul Wittle <P.Wittle@anonymised.com>
wrote:

The issue we have noticed is that that layer takes an age to draw tiles
when they are not in the cache and we wondered how to speed it up. There is
no issue from the Oracle point of view, we can query it and it returns
reasonably quickly but the GeoServer is a different. The style is just a
couple of coloured triangles based on property type so it is not complex.

I know that GeoServer can render the entire road network of Texas (a couple
of million roads) in like 40 seconds on a 5 years old computer, if the data
source manages to provide the data fast enough... and the rendering engine
is the same regardless of the data source.
Do your tiles contain millions, or hundred of thousands, points?
As an alternative, are you trying to render many very complex tiles in
parallel, and are running on Windows with the Oracle JDK? That has a known
scalability problem, which can only be addressed by replacing some parts of
the JDK, or running multiple instances of GeoServer in parallel:
http://www.geo-solutions.it/blog/developerss-corner-achieving-extreme-geoserver-scalability-with-the-new-marlin-vector-rasterizer/
If that's not the case, the issue is still likely to be searched in the
data source.

Unfortunately when the data source is Oracle things start getting south
quickly.... For example, you say the query you run is fast, but you may not
actually
be replicating the query made by GeoServer, whcih is using prepared
statements, while I assume when you run it by hand, you are proving
a full sql statement without params (without "?" in the place of the bbox
geometry to be clear).
The access plan that Oracle makes in those cases can be comically wrong...
wondering, are your index statistics up to date?

The Oracle documentation states that to get good performance one has to use
prepared statements, but I cannot say I ever managed
to get fast and Oracle in the same sentence (e.g.
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/articles/vasiliev-oracle-jdbc-090470.html
)... thinking
out loud, maybe we should try to have an option for prepared and non
prepared statements in Oracle too, at least with the non prepared approach
one could actually run the very same query GeoServer builds.
That would be a significant effort though, Oracle XE cannot even read WKT
and one has to use its own silly native syntax, for which we
don't have a complete generator... not to mention proper date handling,
which would also be rather annoying to setup.
It's something that would definitely need resourcing (and might, or might
not, solve the issue, although if you say the manual query
is fast, then it might at least in your case):
https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer

Cheers
Andrea

--

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054 Massarosa (LU)
Italy
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

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[Paul_Wittle]

Hi Chris,

No, it is scale dependent. I think it is more likely due to Oracle trying to recalculate the statistics as Andrea mentions. We have had issues with that before and we will investigate that in due course.

Thanks for all your tips everyone.

Paul

···

From: Chris Snider [mailto:chris.snider@…3225…]
Sent: 19 January 2016 15:07
To: Paul Wittle; jonathan-lists@…7221…
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: [Geoserver-users] What is Vector Big Data to GeoServer?

Hi Paul,

Are you returning the complete dataset for each zoom level or do you have scale dependent rules in the SLD? If you are returning all features for all zoom levels, you are potentially bumping into the extra code for label positioning etc…

Chris Snider

Senior Software Engineer

Intelligent Software Solutions, Inc.

From: Paul Wittle [mailto:P.Wittle@…7193…]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 7:53 AM
To: jonathan-lists@…7221…
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] What is Vector Big Data to GeoServer?

Hi Jonathan,

You are correct in your assumption of AddressBase Premium and yes we do have all the normal methods including spatial indices and pre-seeded caches.

The issue is when people hit a tile that doesn’t exist. This is bound to happen eventually and definitely happens when you seed the cache.

The issue we have noticed is that that layer takes an age to draw tiles when they are not in the cache and we wondered how to speed it up. There is no issue from the Oracle point of view, we can query it and it returns reasonably quickly but the GeoServer is a different. The style is just a couple of coloured triangles based on property type so it is not complex.

If you give the GeoServer a materialised view of a smaller area it is fine and fast, but give it the whole dataset with a spatial index and it is horrifically slow. We thought perhaps there is a known size by which you ought to split the data into multiple materialised views / layers and just make it a layer group?

Thanks,

Paul

From: Jonathan [mailto:jonathan-lists@…7221…]
Sent: 19 January 2016 10:49
To: Paul Wittle
Cc: geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Geoserver-users] What is Vector Big Data to GeoServer?

Hi Paul,
It depends how large your datasets are. I know there are plenty of instances of GeoServer being fed by an Oracle DB with millions of features; Warwickshire’s implementation has MasterMap features for a large chunk of the urban midlands, there are around 30 million vector features between the 6 topography layers and it works quite well, albeit with a little bit of clever pre-tiling to help things along. There should be no need to split datasets.

I’m guessing your addresses for the entire country is the AddressBase Premium product. In that case you should only have a few million features depending on how you loaded it. Have you joined it all together in a single table, a materialised view, or a regular view? The later will have abysmal performance no mater what you do.

Your email isn’t clear on what your system is having the problems with. Can you give us more details.

Things to bear in mind:

• Do you have spatial indexes?
• Do you have indexes on other columns that you’re using for queries. In ABP it may be one (or several) of the various address columns for WFS GetFeature queries.
• Does it work if you use a simple style for rendering rather than something complicated?

There are a number of other things you can do to optimise your GeoServer install.

Simon’s answer here may be helpful:
http://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/157287/how-to-optimise-rendering-of-layer-groups-in-geoserver

And this part of the docs:
http://docs.geoserver.org/stable/en/user/production/index.html

Cheers,
Jonathan

On 19/01/2016 08:01, Paul Wittle wrote:

Hi,

We have been finding that GeoServer struggles to render large datasets from our Oracle database but we were wondering if there are known levels at which you ought to split datasets for GeoServer?

I have seen plenty of information regarding Raster data and when this is considered ‘big data’ but I have not seen much documentation on vector datasets from spatial databases.

To give an idea of the scale, we are talking about addresses for a whole country at the moment but I’m sure there may be any number of datasets and factors. To give another example, would the limit on complex polygons differ from simple points?

Would be great to hear some views or read some linked articles.

Thanks,

Paul Wittle

“This e-mail is intended for the named addressee(s) only and may contain information about individuals or other sensitive information and should be handled accordingly. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive it for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you have received this email in error, kindly disregard the content of the message and notify the sender immediately. Please be aware that all email may be subject to recording and/or monitoring in accordance with relevant legislation.”

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