[GRASS-dev] first users main trouble

GRASS GRASS developer
1

Hi all,

just though to say one thing that first users have trouble with.
In itself it is not a problem for half of them after few days of GRASS GIS, but the remaining part just cannot get used to it.

When processing is done, they think their new map is going to be displayed automatically (it is part of the processing to display output).

linked to this, they have hard time imagining that two-three windows make one software (I know, Windows users they are), I have to expelain that most GIS/RS software work this way, and that it has strong advantages (dual monitors for example, one for processing and one visualizing), and I prefer it that way as many of us I guess.

Just adding a little bit on what wall very first GIS users are banging…
Yann

2

Yann Chemin wrote:

When processing is done, they think their new map is going to be
displayed automatically (it is part of the processing to display
output).

maybe the refresh button could blink or get a different background color
when the display is known to be "out of date". Or from the other
direction, be shaded (but still operational) if thought to be "up to
date"?

linked to this, they have hard time imagining that two-three windows
make one software (I know, Windows users they are), I have to expelain
that most GIS/RS software work this way, and that it has strong
advantages (dual monitors for example, one for processing and one
visualizing), and I prefer it that way as many of us I guess.

I don't know, at one end is StarOffice 5 which took the single window
thing way too far (it had it's own "Start" button, ..) and at the other
end is GpsMan which spews new windows all over the place which makes
workflow very confusing. I guess there is a happy medium somewhere. AFAIU
in the new wx GUI the output window has been converted into a tab of the
control window, so the user is now presented with just two active
windows: control and display. (A module will open a new window; perhaps
that could become additional tabs of the control window...? shrug)

Just adding a little bit on what wall very first GIS users are
banging...

important stuff to hear...

Hamish

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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3

Just adding a little bit on what wall very first GIS users are banging...
Yann

Are they really first time GIS users? Or first time GRASS users?
If they have had exposition to other GIS before, chances are it will
have been ArcGIS or MapInfo -- i.e. a Desktop GIS. If it was a
Workstation class GIS, such as ArcInfo or IDRISI, they should have
far less trouble,

GRASS being rather of the Workstation type, Currently, GRASS does not
try to emulate the heavily interactive Desktop GIS workflow too much,
as it only gets in the way of (semi-) automated and mass data processing
for which GRASS is the ruling champion.

Benjamin

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--
Benjamin Ducke
Senior Applications Support and Development Officer

Oxford Archaeological Unit Limited
Janus House
Osney Mead
OX2 0ES
Oxford, U.K.

Tel.: ++44 (0)1865 263 800
benjamin.ducke@oxfordarch.co.uk

4

Yes Benjamin,

2 third or more are generally non-GIS non-geographical background and Windows users.
Remaining ArcGIS/ArcView and sometimes i got chance with a couple of BSD teaching guys.
Also, for the first time I saw a person (in Thailand) coming up with an Ubuntu laptop, made things easier… In Laos, no Internet, major amount of viruses on computers… sorry… not the topic.

I do recognize the power of GRASS by all means, I am just trying to get people started up faster. From Null() to G_anything().

:slight_smile:

On 14/03/2008, Benjamin Ducke <benjamin.ducke@ufg.uni-kiel.de> wrote:

Just adding a little bit on what wall very first GIS users are banging…
Yann

Are they really first time GIS users? Or first time GRASS users?
If they have had exposition to other GIS before, chances are it will
have been ArcGIS or MapInfo – i.e. a Desktop GIS. If it was a
Workstation class GIS, such as ArcInfo or IDRISI, they should have
far less trouble,

GRASS being rather of the Workstation type, Currently, GRASS does not
try to emulate the heavily interactive Desktop GIS workflow too much,
as it only gets in the way of (semi-) automated and mass data processing
for which GRASS is the ruling champion.

Benjamin

grass-dev mailing list
grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev

–
Benjamin Ducke
Senior Applications Support and Development Officer

Oxford Archaeological Unit Limited
Janus House
Osney Mead
OX2 0ES
Oxford, U.K.

Tel.: ++44 (0)1865 263 800
benjamin.ducke@oxfordarch.co.uk

grass-dev mailing list
grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev

5

Yann Chemin <yann.chemin@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi all, just though to say one thing that first users have trouble
> with. In itself it is not a problem for half of them after few days
> of GRASS GIS, but the remaining part just cannot get used to it.

> When processing is done, they think their new map is going to be
> displayed automatically (it is part of the processing to display
> output).

> linked to this, they have hard time imagining that two-three windows
> make one software (I know, Windows users they are), I have to
> expelain that most GIS/RS software work this way, and that it has
> strong advantages (dual monitors for example, one for processing and
> one visualizing), and I prefer it that way as many of us I guess.

> Just adding a little bit on what wall very first GIS users are
> banging...

  Because of such difficulties, I've tried a reversed approach.
  First of all, I've explained:

  * what's GIS software, what it's used for? (the audience was
    supposed to have no prior experience with GIS);

  * what's GRASS? the basics of its design, with a particular
    emphasis put on using an ``embedded language'' -- the POSIX
    Shell (a historical decision due to the GRASS' UNIX origins);

  * how to start Bash? (the classroom computers were running
    Windows);

  * how to start GRASS from the Shell? namely, I've recommended:

$ grass63 -text

  Then, we've been playing a little with a few basic GRASS
  commands (g.list(1), r.info(1), g.region(1), r.what.rast(1)) to
  get some ``feel'' of the CLI. (Depending on the amount of time
  given it may be advisable to mention Shell functions and, if the
  environment variables are also introduced, Shell scripts.)

  Finally, there was a bit of `gis.m'. (BTW, it seems that it
  runs quite well with Tcl 8.5.1, Tk 8.5.1, as of GRASS 6.3rc4.)

  The second half of the GRASS-related part was focused mainly on
  r.mapcalc(1).

  Since the GRASS-related part of the course is quite small, I've
  made extensive use of pre-created locations (i. e., there were
  no need to get through the location creation process, nor the
  need to `r.in.*' or `v.in.*'.)