[GRASS-dev] GRASS on OS X El Capitan - slowly dying or is something happening?

Hi

Sorry for this blunt subject - but I am wondering if anybody is looking
at supporting El Capitan without having to disable SIP (System Integrity
Protection). SIP is likely to stay, and for many (including myself)
disabling SIP is not really an option as it goes to deep into the OS.

So my personal opinion: if GRASS want's to stay relevant on OS X, a
solution needs to be found to compile and install it on a mac as easy
as it was before (homebrew, which I relly like, and also the frameworks
From William Kyngesburye and michael Barton?)

I mean - I have found a way of compiling GRASS 7.1 (see my post from the
07 January in the topic "SUCCESS (running): Compiling grass 7 svn trunk
on OS X El Capitan") which gives me a working GRASS GIS including GUI,
but this is not really a solution.

I asked for help but did not get any response (subject "grass 7 svn
trunk on OS X El Capitan - need help").

So I would like to know if somebody would be prepared to help or at
least tell me if I am following the wrong track. I am not very
experienced in compiling / linking / make files but I have a basic
understanding.

I simply refuse to accept that GRASS will die for OSX users (>= El
Capitan).

Cheers,

Rainer

--
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D): +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email: Rainer@krugs.de

Skype: RMkrug

PGP: 0x0F52F982

There are a couple ideas floating around.

I'm surprised Homebrew has a problem. Since it would leave everything in the configured location (/usr/local), there should not be library paths pointing somewhere else that would need DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH to divert.

On Jan 20, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Rainer M Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:

Hi

Sorry for this blunt subject - but I am wondering if anybody is looking
at supporting El Capitan without having to disable SIP (System Integrity
Protection). SIP is likely to stay, and for many (including myself)
disabling SIP is not really an option as it goes to deep into the OS.

So my personal opinion: if GRASS want's to stay relevant on OS X, a
solution needs to be found to compile and install it on a mac as easy
as it was before (homebrew, which I relly like, and also the frameworks
From William Kyngesburye and michael Barton?)

I mean - I have found a way of compiling GRASS 7.1 (see my post from the
07 January in the topic "SUCCESS (running): Compiling grass 7 svn trunk
on OS X El Capitan") which gives me a working GRASS GIS including GUI,
but this is not really a solution.

I asked for help but did not get any response (subject "grass 7 svn
trunk on OS X El Capitan - need help").

So I would like to know if somebody would be prepared to help or at
least tell me if I am following the wrong track. I am not very
experienced in compiling / linking / make files but I have a basic
understanding.

I simply refuse to accept that GRASS will die for OSX users (>= El
Capitan).

Cheers,

Rainer

--
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D): +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email: Rainer@krugs.de

Skype: RMkrug

PGP: 0x0F52F982
_______________________________________________
grass-dev mailing list
grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev

-----
William Kyngesburye <kyngchaos*at*kyngchaos*dot*com>
http://www.kyngchaos.com/

First Pogril: Why is life like sticking your head in a bucket filled with hyena offal?
Second Pogril: I don't know. Why IS life like sticking your head in a bucket filled with hyena offal?
First Pogril: I don't know either. Wretched, isn't it?

-HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy

William Kyngesburye <woklist@kyngchaos.com> writes:

There are a couple ideas floating around.

I'm surprised Homebrew has a problem. Since it would leave everything
in the configured location (/usr/local), there should not be library
paths pointing somewhere else that would need DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH to
divert.

homebrew is compiling in a temporary location, and than installing it to
/usr/local/Cellar/.

The problem is the same why I had to install and than compile again:

,----
| bash-4.3$ make
| if [ "/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts/d.out.file" != "" ] ; then GISRC=/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/demolocation/.grassrc70 GISBASE=/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0 PATH="/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts:$PATH" PYTHONPATH="/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/etc/python:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/gui/wxpython:$PYTHONPATH" DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH="/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib:" LC_ALL=C /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts/d.out.file --html-description < /dev/null | grep -v '</body>\|</html>' > d.out.file.tmp.html ; fi
| dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/local/Cellar/grass-70/7.0.1/grass-7.0.1/lib/libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib
| Referenced from: /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin/g.parser
| Reason: image not found
| make: *** [d.out.file.tmp.html] Error 1
| rm d.out.file.tmp.html
| bash-4.3$
`----

During make, the html documentation is created. For this,
libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib is needed. It is already compiled, but not
installed.

It is in

,----
| bash-4.3$ ls -la /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib/libgrass_gis*
| -rwxr-xr-x 1 rainerkrug wheel 218244 Jan 21 09:37 /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib/libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib
| lrwxr-xr-x 1 rainerkrug wheel 24 Jan 21 09:37 /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib/libgrass_gis.dylib -> libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib
| bash-4.3$
`----

And I assume the path where it is located is in the DYNLIB_ variable
which is ignored.

This problem should be solvable, when somehow the path to the compiled
(but not installed) could be temporarily added during the make.

Any suggestions how this could be done?

Rainer

On Jan 20, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Rainer M Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:

Hi

Sorry for this blunt subject - but I am wondering if anybody is looking
at supporting El Capitan without having to disable SIP (System Integrity
Protection). SIP is likely to stay, and for many (including myself)
disabling SIP is not really an option as it goes to deep into the OS.

So my personal opinion: if GRASS want's to stay relevant on OS X, a
solution needs to be found to compile and install it on a mac as easy
as it was before (homebrew, which I relly like, and also the frameworks
From William Kyngesburye and michael Barton?)

I mean - I have found a way of compiling GRASS 7.1 (see my post from the
07 January in the topic "SUCCESS (running): Compiling grass 7 svn trunk
on OS X El Capitan") which gives me a working GRASS GIS including GUI,
but this is not really a solution.

I asked for help but did not get any response (subject "grass 7 svn
trunk on OS X El Capitan - need help").

So I would like to know if somebody would be prepared to help or at
least tell me if I am following the wrong track. I am not very
experienced in compiling / linking / make files but I have a basic
understanding.

I simply refuse to accept that GRASS will die for OSX users (>= El
Capitan).

Cheers,

Rainer

--
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D): +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email: Rainer@krugs.de

Skype: RMkrug

PGP: 0x0F52F982
_______________________________________________
grass-dev mailing list
grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev

-----
William Kyngesburye <kyngchaos*at*kyngchaos*dot*com>
http://www.kyngchaos.com/

First Pogril: Why is life like sticking your head in a bucket filled with hyena offal?
Second Pogril: I don't know. Why IS life like sticking your head in a bucket filled with hyena offal?
First Pogril: I don't know either. Wretched, isn't it?

-HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy

--
Rainer M. Krug
email: Rainer<at>krugs<dot>de
PGP: 0x0F52F982

Right, forgot about that part in make (even though I pointed it out previously).

Yeah, that would be messy - it would have to compile with the temporary path, then use install_name_tool at install to change all the paths. This is where I got stalled with figuring out loops and lists of modules and libraries in make.

Another option that may be simpler is to move the doc generation to install, then everything runs from the install path.

On Jan 21, 2016, at 3:01 AM, Rainer M Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:

William Kyngesburye <woklist@kyngchaos.com> writes:

There are a couple ideas floating around.

I'm surprised Homebrew has a problem. Since it would leave everything
in the configured location (/usr/local), there should not be library
paths pointing somewhere else that would need DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH to
divert.

homebrew is compiling in a temporary location, and than installing it to
/usr/local/Cellar/.

The problem is the same why I had to install and than compile again:

,----
| bash-4.3$ make
| if [ "/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts/d.out.file" != "" ] ; then GISRC=/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/demolocation/.grassrc70 GISBASE=/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0 PATH="/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts:$PATH" PYTHONPATH="/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/etc/python:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/gui/wxpython:$PYTHONPATH" DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH="/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib:" LC_ALL=C /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts/d.out.file --html-description < /dev/null | grep -v '</body>\|</html>' > d.out.file.tmp.html ; fi
| dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/local/Cellar/grass-70/7.0.1/grass-7.0.1/lib/libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib
| Referenced from: /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin/g.parser
| Reason: image not found
| make: *** [d.out.file.tmp.html] Error 1
| rm d.out.file.tmp.html
| bash-4.3$
`----

During make, the html documentation is created. For this,
libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib is needed. It is already compiled, but not
installed.

It is in

,----
| bash-4.3$ ls -la /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib/libgrass_gis*
| -rwxr-xr-x 1 rainerkrug wheel 218244 Jan 21 09:37 /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib/libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib
| lrwxr-xr-x 1 rainerkrug wheel 24 Jan 21 09:37 /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib/libgrass_gis.dylib -> libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib
| bash-4.3$
`----

And I assume the path where it is located is in the DYNLIB_ variable
which is ignored.

This problem should be solvable, when somehow the path to the compiled
(but not installed) could be temporarily added during the make.

Any suggestions how this could be done?

Rainer

On Jan 20, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Rainer M Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:

Hi

Sorry for this blunt subject - but I am wondering if anybody is looking
at supporting El Capitan without having to disable SIP (System Integrity
Protection). SIP is likely to stay, and for many (including myself)
disabling SIP is not really an option as it goes to deep into the OS.

So my personal opinion: if GRASS want's to stay relevant on OS X, a
solution needs to be found to compile and install it on a mac as easy
as it was before (homebrew, which I relly like, and also the frameworks
From William Kyngesburye and michael Barton?)

I mean - I have found a way of compiling GRASS 7.1 (see my post from the
07 January in the topic "SUCCESS (running): Compiling grass 7 svn trunk
on OS X El Capitan") which gives me a working GRASS GIS including GUI,
but this is not really a solution.

I asked for help but did not get any response (subject "grass 7 svn
trunk on OS X El Capitan - need help").

So I would like to know if somebody would be prepared to help or at
least tell me if I am following the wrong track. I am not very
experienced in compiling / linking / make files but I have a basic
understanding.

I simply refuse to accept that GRASS will die for OSX users (>= El
Capitan).

Cheers,

Rainer

--
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D): +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email: Rainer@krugs.de

Skype: RMkrug

PGP: 0x0F52F982
_______________________________________________
grass-dev mailing list
grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev

-----
William Kyngesburye <kyngchaos*at*kyngchaos*dot*com>
http://www.kyngchaos.com/

First Pogril: Why is life like sticking your head in a bucket filled with hyena offal?
Second Pogril: I don't know. Why IS life like sticking your head in a bucket filled with hyena offal?
First Pogril: I don't know either. Wretched, isn't it?

-HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy

--
Rainer M. Krug
email: Rainer<at>krugs<dot>de
PGP: 0x0F52F982
_______________________________________________
grass-dev mailing list
grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev

-----
William Kyngesburye <kyngchaos*at*kyngchaos*dot*com>
http://www.kyngchaos.com/

"Time is an illusion - lunchtime doubly so."

- Ford Prefect

William Kyngesburye <woklist@kyngchaos.com> writes:

Right, forgot about that part in make (even though I pointed it out previously).

Yeah, that would be messy - it would have to compile with the
temporary path, then use install_name_tool at install to change all
the paths. This is where I got stalled with figuring out loops and
lists of modules and libraries in make.

Another option that may be simpler is to move the doc generation to
install, then everything runs from the install path.

This should work, but I have to check it.

This is would be the simplest solution, even though I don't know
how I can compile without doc generation? What would be the make target
than? I assume that the console help would still be htere as it is
inherent in the module's executable.

Rainer

On Jan 21, 2016, at 3:01 AM, Rainer M Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:

William Kyngesburye <woklist@kyngchaos.com> writes:

There are a couple ideas floating around.

I'm surprised Homebrew has a problem. Since it would leave everything
in the configured location (/usr/local), there should not be library
paths pointing somewhere else that would need DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH to
divert.

homebrew is compiling in a temporary location, and than installing it to
/usr/local/Cellar/.

The problem is the same why I had to install and than compile again:

,----
| bash-4.3$ make
| if [
| "/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts/d.out.file"
| != "" ] ; then
| GISRC=/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/demolocation/.grassrc70
| GISBASE=/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0
| PATH="/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts:$PATH"
| PYTHONPATH="/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/etc/python:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/gui/wxpython:$PYTHONPATH"
| DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH="/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib:/private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib:"
| LC_ALL=C
| /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/scripts/d.out.file
| --html-description < /dev/null | grep -v '</body>\|</html>' >
| d.out.file.tmp.html ; fi
| dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/local/Cellar/grass-70/7.0.1/grass-7.0.1/lib/libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib
| Referenced from:
| /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/bin/g.parser
| Reason: image not found
| make: *** [d.out.file.tmp.html] Error 1
| rm d.out.file.tmp.html
| bash-4.3$
`----

During make, the html documentation is created. For this,
libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib is needed. It is already compiled, but not
installed.

It is in

,----
| bash-4.3$ ls -la
| /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib/libgrass_gis*
| -rwxr-xr-x 1 rainerkrug wheel 218244 Jan 21 09:37
| /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib/libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib
| lrwxr-xr-x 1 rainerkrug wheel 24 Jan 21 09:37
| /private/tmp/grass-7020160121-38274-ed29gx/grass-7.0.1/dist.x86_64-apple-darwin15.2.0/lib/libgrass_gis.dylib
| -> libgrass_gis.7.0.1.dylib
| bash-4.3$
`----

And I assume the path where it is located is in the DYNLIB_ variable
which is ignored.

This problem should be solvable, when somehow the path to the compiled
(but not installed) could be temporarily added during the make.

Any suggestions how this could be done?

Rainer

On Jan 20, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Rainer M Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:

Hi

Sorry for this blunt subject - but I am wondering if anybody is looking
at supporting El Capitan without having to disable SIP (System Integrity
Protection). SIP is likely to stay, and for many (including myself)
disabling SIP is not really an option as it goes to deep into the OS.

So my personal opinion: if GRASS want's to stay relevant on OS X, a
solution needs to be found to compile and install it on a mac as easy
as it was before (homebrew, which I relly like, and also the frameworks
From William Kyngesburye and michael Barton?)

I mean - I have found a way of compiling GRASS 7.1 (see my post from the
07 January in the topic "SUCCESS (running): Compiling grass 7 svn trunk
on OS X El Capitan") which gives me a working GRASS GIS including GUI,
but this is not really a solution.

I asked for help but did not get any response (subject "grass 7 svn
trunk on OS X El Capitan - need help").

So I would like to know if somebody would be prepared to help or at
least tell me if I am following the wrong track. I am not very
experienced in compiling / linking / make files but I have a basic
understanding.

I simply refuse to accept that GRASS will die for OSX users (>= El
Capitan).

Cheers,

Rainer

--
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D): +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email: Rainer@krugs.de

Skype: RMkrug

PGP: 0x0F52F982
_______________________________________________
grass-dev mailing list
grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev

-----
William Kyngesburye <kyngchaos*at*kyngchaos*dot*com>
http://www.kyngchaos.com/

First Pogril: Why is life like sticking your head in a bucket filled with hyena offal?
Second Pogril: I don't know. Why IS life like sticking your head in a bucket filled with hyena offal?
First Pogril: I don't know either. Wretched, isn't it?

-HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy

--
Rainer M. Krug
email: Rainer<at>krugs<dot>de
PGP: 0x0F52F982
_______________________________________________
grass-dev mailing list
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William Kyngesburye <kyngchaos*at*kyngchaos*dot*com>
http://www.kyngchaos.com/

"Time is an illusion - lunchtime doubly so."

- Ford Prefect

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Rainer M. Krug
email: Rainer<at>krugs<dot>de
PGP: 0x0F52F982