[GRASS-dev] some impressions on the wx interface

Dear devs,

Recently we had a workshop on SAGA+GRASS+R at the Geomorphometry2009
conference (www.geomorphometry.org). Before the workshop I was using
the old tcl/tk interface (pretty much because of laziness, I'm used to
it), but during the workshop most students were using Windows, so the
WX interface was the default. Besides some bugs with the Windows
version of GRASS, it went well. Some of the issues I observed during
the workshop follow, so we can discuss ways to improve GRASS.

One thing is that the WX interface doesn't open a terminal (at least
in Windows), so if one is thinking about running GRASS+R, with GRASS
on top of R, there is no way. Or is there?

I noticed that the students were using most the "load map layers into
workspace" icon, instead of "add raster" or "add vector". I don't know
if this is because "load maps" is more to the left of the toolbar, and
if you read from left to right, you see it before the others. I think
that it would be better if the three "workspace" icons were at the far
right of the toolbar. Also I would put the "add raster" and "add
vector" icons with a different image, to highlight them from the
others.

In the Map Display, the "overlay" icon doesn't really mean much, I
think that a different image would help, or even three buttons, one
for legend, one for north arrow and on for text.

In GIS manager, it looks to me that the "maps for each display" and
"command output" are tabs, right? using a wx.notebook? in this case, I
have to say that they don't look like tabs, and this always got me a
little confused. If they had a real tab-like appearance, it would be
better to understand the way the GUI works, because anyone that's new
to the interface would know that there are two tabs with different
contents. Also it would be very nice if instead of "maps for each
display", we had "maps for display 1", "maps for display 2", etc.

Also, using the mouse scroll wheel to navigate between tabs, IMO, is a
must-have. That includes all tabs, the display tabs in gism and the
options tabs in the commands dialogs. I also noticed that one can
"close" tabs in the command dialog. why? the arrows to scroll to tabs
that may not be visible is OK (although I would prefer to have all the
tabs shown, even if that meant two rows of tabs), but closing tabs
shouldn't be an option. Maybe we can save some space using regular
"square" tabs instead of the tabs with that triangular ending.

The dialog name for r.shaded.relief is "raded.relief". Didn't check
other dialogs.

And I noticed that I can't change the HTML browser (Ubuntu 9.04,
latest GRASS SVN). It always call Konqueror. I tried changing
GRASS_HTML_BROWSER to firefox or chromium-browser, but unsuccessfully.

that's it for now. I'll use only the WX interface now, so I might come
back with more feedback soon.

cheers

Carlos

--
Carlos Henrique Grohmann - Geologist D.Sc.
a.k.a. Guano - Linux User #89721
ResearcherID: A-9030-2008

http://digitalelevation.blogspot.com

http://www.igc.usp.br/pessoais/guano
_________________
Can’t stop the signal.

Little bit of cosmetics to wxGUI would indeed help, especially for new users - see my comments below:

On Sep 11, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Carlos Grohmann wrote:

One thing is that the WX interface doesn't open a terminal (at least
in Windows), so if one is thinking about running GRASS+R, with GRASS
on top of R, there is no way. Or is there?

yes, there is, we open GRASS using GRASS+MSYS icon (the one with grass and blue M)
and that opens wxGUI and shell. This makes the environment on linux, Mac
and WinGRASS very similar to each other and so far worked great for me.

The one very confusing thing is that when you try to run any d.* command
it says "not yet implemented" so it looks like unfinished thing which may be OK
for RC but not for the final release. I suggest to change the message to something
like "not applicable without X11 support, please use appropriate icons,
see wxGUI help" although people generally won't know what X11 is -
so maybe somebody has a better suggestion?

And as I said before - I am missing the d.* commands sooo much!

I noticed that the students were using most the "load map layers into
workspace" icon, instead of "add raster" or "add vector". I don't know
if this is because "load maps" is more to the left of the toolbar, and
if you read from left to right, you see it before the others. I think
that it would be better if the three "workspace" icons were at the far
right of the toolbar. Also I would put the "add raster" and "add
vector" icons with a different image, to highlight them from the
others.

I am not sure about this - I did not observe students using load map layers
  - maybe you have shown
the students the load map layers first and they stick to it even after they find out
about add raster.

In the Map Display, the "overlay" icon doesn't really mean much, I
think that a different image would help, or even three buttons, one
for legend, one for north arrow and on for text.

YES!!! Everybody here complains that they cannot find the legend button.
Even if you read the wxGUI help - it is hard to remember.

In GIS manager, it looks to me that the "maps for each display" and
"command output" are tabs, right? using a wx.notebook? in this case, I
have to say that they don't look like tabs, and this always got me a
little confused. If they had a real tab-like appearance, it would be
better to understand the way the GUI works, because anyone that's new
to the interface would know that there are two tabs with different
contents.

I would agree with this, although most students figured this out.

Given that wxGUI is completely new and minimally tested by broader
users community it is quite amazing how robust it is and I would vote
for releasing it as a default GUI for both Mac and linux, as it is
now for winGRASS. It may be worth to spend some time on polishing
it for GRASS64 final release, rather than having to maintain two GUIs - I found that some
people who learned TclTK GUI stick to it and are hesitant to switch.

Helena

Also it would be very nice if instead of "maps for each
display", we had "maps for display 1", "maps for display 2", etc.

Also, using the mouse scroll wheel to navigate between tabs, IMO, is a
must-have. That includes all tabs, the display tabs in gism and the
options tabs in the commands dialogs. I also noticed that one can
"close" tabs in the command dialog. why? the arrows to scroll to tabs
that may not be visible is OK (although I would prefer to have all the
tabs shown, even if that meant two rows of tabs), but closing tabs
shouldn't be an option. Maybe we can save some space using regular
"square" tabs instead of the tabs with that triangular ending.

The dialog name for r.shaded.relief is "raded.relief". Didn't check
other dialogs.

And I noticed that I can't change the HTML browser (Ubuntu 9.04,
latest GRASS SVN). It always call Konqueror. I tried changing
GRASS_HTML_BROWSER to firefox or chromium-browser, but unsuccessfully.

that's it for now. I'll use only the WX interface now, so I might come
back with more feedback soon.

cheers

Carlos

--
Carlos Henrique Grohmann - Geologist D.Sc.
a.k.a. Guano - Linux User #89721
ResearcherID: A-9030-2008

http://digitalelevation.blogspot.com

http://www.igc.usp.br/pessoais/guano
_________________
Can’t stop the signal.
_______________________________________________
grass-dev mailing list
grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-dev

Hello Helena and Carlos,

Thank you for valuable comments on GUI.

Helena Mitasova pisze:

Little bit of cosmetics to wxGUI would indeed help, especially for new
users - see my comments below:

On Sep 11, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Carlos Grohmann wrote:

In the Map Display, the "overlay" icon doesn't really mean much, I
think that a different image would help, or even three buttons, one
for legend, one for north arrow and on for text.

YES!!! Everybody here complains that they cannot find the legend button.
Even if you read the wxGUI help - it is hard to remember.

Which version are we talking about?
http://grass.itc.it/grass64/manuals/html64_user/icons/grass2/element-add.png
http://grass.itc.it/grass64/manuals/html64_user/icons/silk/overlays.png
http://grass.itc.it/grass64/manuals/html64_user/icons/grass/gui-rastanalyze.gif

I agree with you. None of them is good :slight_smile:
Any idea how it should look like?
Explicit version like this one?
http://robert.szczepanek.pl/icon/0.1/overlay-add.png

Robert

Hello Helena and Robert.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 14:28, Helena Mitasova <hmitaso@unity.ncsu.edu> wrote:

I noticed that the students were using most the "load map layers into
workspace" icon, instead of "add raster" or "add vector". I don't know
if this is because "load maps" is more to the left of the toolbar, and
if you read from left to right, you see it before the others. I think
that it would be better if the three "workspace" icons were at the far
right of the toolbar. Also I would put the "add raster" and "add
vector" icons with a different image, to highlight them from the
others.

I am not sure about this - I did not observe students using load map layers
- maybe you have shown
the students the load map layers first and they stick to it even after they
find out
about add raster.

Actually I didn't even know about the "load map" before the workshop
(wasn't using the wx interface much). I always use (and teach) the
"add raster". But the workshop was very fast-paced, so maybe they got
a little lost and start hovering the mouse over the GUI to find out
what the icons do, and starting from the left, "load maps" comes
before "add raster".. I still think the workspace icons should go to
the far right of the toolbar.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 17:37, Robert Szczepanek <robert@szczepanek.pl> wrote:

Which version are we talking about?
http://grass.itc.it/grass64/manuals/html64_user/icons/grass2/element-add.png
http://grass.itc.it/grass64/manuals/html64_user/icons/silk/overlays.png
http://grass.itc.it/grass64/manuals/html64_user/icons/grass/gui-rastanalyze.gif

I agree with you. None of them is good :slight_smile:
Any idea how it should look like?
Explicit version like this one?
http://robert.szczepanek.pl/icon/0.1/overlay-add.png

I forgotto say, I'm using the default "grass2" icon set. The explicit
one you pointed is better, but still maybe one icon per overlay?
(legend, north arrow, text)?

cheers

Carlos

--
Carlos Henrique Grohmann - Geologist D.Sc.
a.k.a. Guano - Linux User #89721
ResearcherID: A-9030-2008

http://digitalelevation.blogspot.com

http://www.igc.usp.br/pessoais/guano
_________________
Can’t stop the signal.

Hi,

2009/9/11 Robert Szczepanek <robert@szczepanek.pl>:

[...]

Which version are we talking about?
http://grass.itc.it/grass64/manuals/html64_user/icons/grass2/element-add.png
http://grass.itc.it/grass64/manuals/html64_user/icons/silk/overlays.png
http://grass.itc.it/grass64/manuals/html64_user/icons/grass/gui-rastanalyze.gif

I agree with you. None of them is good :slight_smile:
Any idea how it should look like?
Explicit version like this one?
http://robert.szczepanek.pl/icon/0.1/overlay-add.png

overlay icon changed (i.e., element-add -> overlay-add) in r39152
(trunk) and r39153 (devbr6). Should be backported also to relbr64?

Martin

--
Martin Landa <landa.martin gmail.com> * http://gama.fsv.cvut.cz/~landa