[GRASS-user] i.maxlik's reject versus i.segment's goodness

Hi,

I executed the examples in i.cluster and i.maxlik manuals and also the following i.segment command:

i.segment group=lsat7_2002@w1-imagery output=lsat7_2002_segments threshold=0.5 goodness=lsat7_2002_segments_goodness

(using the imagery group created in i.cluster example, otherwise unrelated)

I looked at goodness from i.segment and then reject from i.maxlik. I noticed that there is some correlation between these two. Well, this is quite okay since they are using same pixel values. However, then I noticed that low values of goodness (-5000, …) correlate with low values of reject (1 == 1%). But the i.maxlik manual says that “1 = keep and 16 = reject”. Can somebody explain this to me and perhaps suggest improvement to the manual? Shouldn’t high rejection correlate with low goodness?

And also, less important thing, i.maxlik reject is an categorical map with percentages reclassified to 16 classes. Does this have some practical meaning or is this just an over-left from integer-only times?

Thanks,
Vaclav

http://grass.osgeo.org/grass71/manuals/i.cluster.html
http://grass.osgeo.org/grass71/manuals/i.maxlik.html
http://grass.osgeo.org/grass71/manuals/i.segment.html

(attachments)

goodness_reject_legends.png
goodness_reject_mapswipe.png

Hi,

2014-11-16 3:21 GMT+01:00 Vaclav Petras <wenzeslaus@gmail.com>:

And also, less important thing, i.maxlik reject is an categorical map with
percentages reclassified to 16 classes. Does this have some practical
meaning or is this just an over-left from integer-only times?

I would guess that it's over-left. It would be nice to synchronize
this output (reject vs. goodness) for i.maxlik and i.smap... Ideally
before releasing GRASS 7...

Martin

--
Martin Landa
http://geo.fsv.cvut.cz/gwiki/Landa
http://gismentors.eu/mentors/landa

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 3:21 AM, Vaclav Petras <wenzeslaus@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I executed the examples in i.cluster and i.maxlik manuals and also the
following i.segment command:

i.segment group=lsat7_2002@w1-imagery output=lsat7_2002_segments
threshold=0.5 goodness=lsat7_2002_segments_goodness

(using the imagery group created in i.cluster example, otherwise unrelated)

I looked at goodness from i.segment and then reject from i.maxlik. I noticed
that there is some correlation between these two. Well, this is quite okay
since they are using same pixel values. However, then I noticed that low
values of goodness (-5000, ...) correlate with low values of reject (1 ==
1%). But the i.maxlik manual says that "1 = keep and 16 = reject". Can
somebody explain this to me and perhaps suggest improvement to the manual?
Shouldn't high rejection correlate with low goodness?

Unless someone looks at the source code, the i.maxlik manual may
simply be wrong.

A nice, synthetic test case would be the best.

And also, less important thing, i.maxlik reject is an categorical map with
percentages reclassified to 16 classes. Does this have some practical
meaning or is this just an over-left from integer-only times?

Yes, that's likely and should be changed.

Markus

Thanks,
Vaclav

http://grass.osgeo.org/grass71/manuals/i.cluster.html
http://grass.osgeo.org/grass71/manuals/i.maxlik.html
http://grass.osgeo.org/grass71/manuals/i.segment.html

_______________________________________________
grass-user mailing list
grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 3:21 AM, Vaclav Petras <wenzeslaus@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I executed the examples in i.cluster and i.maxlik manuals and also the
following i.segment command:

i.segment group=lsat7_2002@w1-imagery output=lsat7_2002_segments
threshold=0.5 goodness=lsat7_2002_segments_goodness

(using the imagery group created in i.cluster example, otherwise unrelated)

I looked at goodness from i.segment and then reject from i.maxlik. I noticed
that there is some correlation between these two. Well, this is quite okay
since they are using same pixel values. However, then I noticed that low
values of goodness (-5000, ...)

i.segment's goodness estimate is supposed to be in the range [0,1].
Fixed in r62793,4. Can you test again?

Markus M

correlate with low values of reject (1 ==
1%). But the i.maxlik manual says that "1 = keep and 16 = reject". Can
somebody explain this to me and perhaps suggest improvement to the manual?
Shouldn't high rejection correlate with low goodness?

And also, less important thing, i.maxlik reject is an categorical map with
percentages reclassified to 16 classes. Does this have some practical
meaning or is this just an over-left from integer-only times?

Thanks,
Vaclav

http://grass.osgeo.org/grass71/manuals/i.cluster.html
http://grass.osgeo.org/grass71/manuals/i.maxlik.html
http://grass.osgeo.org/grass71/manuals/i.segment.html

_______________________________________________
grass-user mailing list
grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user

On 18/11/14 09:47, Markus Metz wrote:

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 3:21 AM, Vaclav Petras <wenzeslaus@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I executed the examples in i.cluster and i.maxlik manuals and also the
following i.segment command:

i.segment group=lsat7_2002@w1-imagery output=lsat7_2002_segments
threshold=0.5 goodness=lsat7_2002_segments_goodness

(using the imagery group created in i.cluster example, otherwise unrelated)

I looked at goodness from i.segment and then reject from i.maxlik. I noticed
that there is some correlation between these two. Well, this is quite okay
since they are using same pixel values. However, then I noticed that low
values of goodness (-5000, ...)

i.segment's goodness estimate is supposed to be in the range [0,1].
Fixed in r62793,4. Can you test again?

Could you explain / put into the manual the explanation of the calculation / meaning of this goodness of fit ?

Moritz

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Moritz Lennert
<mlennert@club.worldonline.be> wrote:

On 18/11/14 09:47, Markus Metz wrote:

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 3:21 AM, Vaclav Petras <wenzeslaus@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi,

I executed the examples in i.cluster and i.maxlik manuals and also the
following i.segment command:

i.segment group=lsat7_2002@w1-imagery output=lsat7_2002_segments
threshold=0.5 goodness=lsat7_2002_segments_goodness

(using the imagery group created in i.cluster example, otherwise
unrelated)

I looked at goodness from i.segment and then reject from i.maxlik. I
noticed
that there is some correlation between these two. Well, this is quite
okay
since they are using same pixel values. However, then I noticed that low
values of goodness (-5000, ...)

i.segment's goodness estimate is supposed to be in the range [0,1].
Fixed in r62793,4. Can you test again?

Could you explain / put into the manual the explanation of the calculation /
meaning of this goodness of fit ?

Done in r62830:

The goodness of fit for each pixel is calculated as 1 - distance
of the pixel to the object it belongs to. The distance is calculated
with the selected similarity method. A value of 1 means
identical values, perfect fit, and a value of 0 means maximum possible
distance, worst possible fit.

Markus M

On 20/11/14 08:40, Markus Metz wrote:

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Moritz Lennert
<mlennert@club.worldonline.be> wrote:

On 18/11/14 09:47, Markus Metz wrote:

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 3:21 AM, Vaclav Petras <wenzeslaus@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi,

I executed the examples in i.cluster and i.maxlik manuals and also the
following i.segment command:

i.segment group=lsat7_2002@w1-imagery output=lsat7_2002_segments
threshold=0.5 goodness=lsat7_2002_segments_goodness

(using the imagery group created in i.cluster example, otherwise
unrelated)

I looked at goodness from i.segment and then reject from i.maxlik. I
noticed
that there is some correlation between these two. Well, this is quite
okay
since they are using same pixel values. However, then I noticed that low
values of goodness (-5000, ...)

i.segment's goodness estimate is supposed to be in the range [0,1].
Fixed in r62793,4. Can you test again?

Could you explain / put into the manual the explanation of the calculation /
meaning of this goodness of fit ?

Done in r62830:

The goodness of fit for each pixel is calculated as 1 - distance
of the pixel to the object it belongs to. The distance is calculated
with the selected similarity method. A value of 1 means
identical values, perfect fit, and a value of 0 means maximum possible
distance, worst possible fit.

Thanks !

:slight_smile:

Moritz