[GRASS-user] [off-topic] spoke too soon

GRASS GRASS user
1

Sorry about those last two messages. My fingers where too fast for my brain,
and inadvertently caused the keys ctrl-enter to be pressed (curse you
Kmail!).

What I had tried to mention was the collection of color palette files here:

http://sview01.wiredworkplace.net/pub/cpt-city/

Perhaps we can convert a pile of these into GRASS-compatible color rules
files.

Cheers,

Dylan

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soil Resource Laboratory
http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

2

Dylan,

Is there a way to apply the example color tables to raster images? I searched in vain a bit for methods to use gmt color tables in grass.

Thanks,
John

--
John C. Tull, Ph.D.
Conservation Director
Nevada Wilderness Project
8550 White Fir Street
Reno, NV 89523
775.746.7851
www.wildnevada.org

On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:07 AM, Dylan Beaudette wrote:

Sorry about those last two messages. My fingers where too fast for my brain,
and inadvertently caused the keys ctrl-enter to be pressed (curse you
Kmail!).

What I had tried to mention was the collection of color palette files here:

http://sview01.wiredworkplace.net/pub/cpt-city/

Perhaps we can convert a pile of these into GRASS-compatible color rules
files.

Cheers,

Dylan

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soil Resource Laboratory
http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

_______________________________________________
grassuser mailing list
grassuser@grass.itc.it
http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser

3

Good stuff

All the palettes are available in GMT color format, which is just plain
ASCII and very similar to GRASS' own colour rule files in the 'cols'
database elements. The only major difference seems to be three additional lines at the end of the file specifying colours for
foreground, background and no data areas which could simply be
discarded.

So how about adding an option cpt=filename to r.colors, to set the
color rules for a raster map from a GMT ASCII file?

The best of these styles could still be hardcoded into r.colors'
database.

Benjamin

P.S.: Some of these palettes actually have licenses attached to them.
What sort of a world do we live in that requires the most trivial
things to be licensed? Come on people, you can give _some_ things to
the public domain w/o conditions ...

Dylan Beaudette wrote:

Sorry about those last two messages. My fingers where too fast for my brain, and inadvertently caused the keys ctrl-enter to be pressed (curse you Kmail!).

What I had tried to mention was the collection of color palette files here:

http://sview01.wiredworkplace.net/pub/cpt-city/

Perhaps we can convert a pile of these into GRASS-compatible color rules files.

Cheers,

Dylan

--
Benjamin Ducke, M.A.
Archäoinformatik
(Archaeoinformation Science)
Institut für Ur- und Frühgeschichte
(Inst. of Prehistoric and Historic Archaeology)
Christian-Albrechts-Universität zu Kiel
Johanna-Mestorf-Straße 2-6
D 24098 Kiel
Germany

Tel.: ++49 (0)431 880-3378 / -3379
Fax : ++49 (0)431 880-7300
www.uni-kiel.de/ufg

4

On Wednesday 03 October 2007, John C. Tull wrote:

Dylan,

Is there a way to apply the example color tables to raster images? I
searched in vain a bit for methods to use gmt color tables in grass.

Thanks,
John

John,

now that would be a neat addition to r.colors. See followup to messages
downstream in this thread.

Dylan

--
John C. Tull, Ph.D.
Conservation Director
Nevada Wilderness Project
8550 White Fir Street
Reno, NV 89523
775.746.7851
www.wildnevada.org

On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:07 AM, Dylan Beaudette wrote:
> Sorry about those last two messages. My fingers where too fast for
> my brain,
> and inadvertently caused the keys ctrl-enter to be pressed (curse you
> Kmail!).
>
> What I had tried to mention was the collection of color palette
> files here:
>
> http://sview01.wiredworkplace.net/pub/cpt-city/
>
> Perhaps we can convert a pile of these into GRASS-compatible color
> rules
> files.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dylan
>
> --
> Dylan Beaudette
> Soil Resource Laboratory
> http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/
> University of California at Davis
> 530.754.7341
>
> _______________________________________________
> grassuser mailing list
> grassuser@grass.itc.it
> http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soil Resource Laboratory
http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

5

On Wednesday 03 October 2007, Benjamin Ducke wrote:

Good stuff

All the palettes are available in GMT color format, which is just plain
ASCII and very similar to GRASS' own colour rule files in the 'cols'
database elements. The only major difference seems to be three
additional lines at the end of the file specifying colours for
foreground, background and no data areas which could simply be
discarded.

Indeed. Will have to poke around in the r.colors source -- anyone an expert on
how the rules file is parsed?

So how about adding an option cpt=filename to r.colors, to set the
color rules for a raster map from a GMT ASCII file?

I think that this would be a great addition. The GMT folks might like it as
well.

The best of these styles could still be hardcoded into r.colors'
database.

Agreed.

Benjamin

P.S.: Some of these palettes actually have licenses attached to them.
What sort of a world do we live in that requires the most trivial
things to be licensed? Come on people, you can give _some_ things to
the public domain w/o conditions ...

My thoughts exactly- however you are going to have to pay-up if you decide to
implement this idea! j/k

Dylan

Dylan Beaudette wrote:
> Sorry about those last two messages. My fingers where too fast for my
> brain, and inadvertently caused the keys ctrl-enter to be pressed (curse
> you Kmail!).
>
> What I had tried to mention was the collection of color palette files
> here:
>
> http://sview01.wiredworkplace.net/pub/cpt-city/
>
> Perhaps we can convert a pile of these into GRASS-compatible color rules
> files.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dylan

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soil Resource Laboratory
http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

6

On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 12:00 -0700, Dylan Beaudette wrote:

On Wednesday 03 October 2007, Benjamin Ducke wrote:
> Good stuff
>
> All the palettes are available in GMT color format, which is just plain
> ASCII and very similar to GRASS' own colour rule files in the 'cols'
> database elements. The only major difference seems to be three
> additional lines at the end of the file specifying colours for
> foreground, background and no data areas which could simply be
> discarded.

Indeed. Will have to poke around in the r.colors source -- anyone an expert on
how the rules file is parsed?

See the r.colors manual page for details. It is similar to the GMT .cpt
format, but still needs a little conversion.

> P.S.: Some of these palettes actually have licenses attached to them.
> What sort of a world do we live in that requires the most trivial
> things to be licensed? Come on people, you can give _some_ things to
> the public domain w/o conditions ...

My thoughts exactly- however you are going to have to pay-up if you decide to
implement this idea! j/k

The product palette image can be copyrighted, but the palette, itself,
cannot be copyrighted.

From copyrights.gov[1] - What can NOT be copyrighted (not a complete

list):

"- Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or
designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or
coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents.

- Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles,
discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description,
explanation, or illustration.

- Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and
containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars,
height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables
taken from public documents or other common sources)."

[1] http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wnp

--
73, de Brad KB8UYR/6 <rez touchofmadness com>

7

Dylan wrote:

> What I had tried to mention was the collection of color palette files here:
>
> http://sview01.wiredworkplace.net/pub/cpt-city/
>
> Perhaps we can convert a pile of these into GRASS-compatible color rules
> files.

Benjamin:

Good stuff

yes! well spotted.

All the palettes are available in GMT color format, which is just plain
ASCII and very similar to GRASS' own colour rule files in the 'cols'
database elements. The only major difference seems to be three
additional lines at the end of the file specifying colours for
foreground, background and no data areas which could simply be
discarded.

So how about adding an option cpt=filename to r.colors, to set the
color rules for a raster map from a GMT ASCII file?

My immediate idea on seeing the site was to write a GMT->GRASS converter in a
shell script, but your idea is nice too.

Rather than a new option I would add it as a new flag which would change the
behaviour of the rules= file input option.

The best of these styles could still be hardcoded into r.colors'
database.

note nothing is hardcoded, they are just ascii files in $GISBASE/etc/colors/

P.S.: Some of these palettes actually have licenses attached to them.
What sort of a world do we live in that requires the most trivial
things to be licensed? Come on people, you can give _some_ things to
the public domain w/o conditions ...

Brad:

(paraphrasing) You can't copyright colors

... but can you copyright a series of colors? Maybe I'm thinking more from a
mathematical standpoint versus a legal one, but if you take the 2D case instead
of the 1D case, then you have an image, which is copyrightable. Presumably we
can incorporate anything from GMT though (GPL). [I like their bathymetry
scheme]

I'll have a look at the GMT format spec later today and get back to the list
with a better idea of how much work would be involved. Writing out to a raster
cats/ file as well is an interesting idea, but would need a second flag.

Hamish

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7

8

On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 13:25 -0700, Hamish wrote:

Brad:
> (paraphrasing) You can't copyright colors

... but can you copyright a series of colors? Maybe I'm thinking more from a
mathematical standpoint versus a legal one, but if you take the 2D case instead
of the 1D case, then you have an image, which is copyrightable. Presumably we
can incorporate anything from GMT though (GPL). [I like their bathymetry
scheme]

"Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs;
mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring;
mere listings of ingredients or contents."

That leads me to believe that the image product is copyrightable, but
the input colors (the ingredients) are not copyrightable.

I'll get clarification from one of my despicable lawyer friends. :wink:

--
73, de Brad KB8UYR/6 <rez touchofmadness com>

9

Brad Douglas wrote:

On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 13:25 -0700, Hamish wrote:
> Brad:
> > (paraphrasing) You can't copyright colors
>
> ... but can you copyright a series of colors? Maybe I'm thinking more
> from a mathematical standpoint versus a legal one, but if you take
> the 2D case instead of the 1D case, then you have an image, which is
> copyrightable. Presumably we can incorporate anything from GMT though
> (GPL). [I like their bathymetry scheme]

"Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs;
mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring;
mere listings of ingredients or contents."

That leads me to believe that the image product is copyrightable, but
the input colors (the ingredients) are not copyrightable.

The original work is in the combination of the colors. But I think you
are right it is the image not the colors which have copyright. (unless
the rules themselves are printed, as in computer code or a poem)
??

It was my understanding that that wording was there to stop paint
companies from trying to lay claim to some specific "Nevada Sunset"
RRR:GGG:BBB combo. They can trademark the name, but not copyright the
color. (sorry to mix trademark & copyright here)

similarly (but less relevant) Harley-Davidson recently losing it's court
case over trying to trademark the sound of its engine when another
manufacturer came out with something sounding not-dissimilar. The best
they could do would be to copyright a recording of it, but that is about
as enforceable as copyrighting a recording of 4'33" of silence.

I'll get clarification from one of my despicable lawyer friends. :wink:

hey, if someone doesn't like to share, then from purely a public
relations standpoint we probably should respect that. Even if we are
legally free to do it, there is a moral duty not to.

We can make r.colors accept any rules file the user gives it, the
question we are dealing with is what can be incorporated into the offical
grass distro.

shrug,
Hamish

10

Benjamin Ducke wrote:

So how about adding an option cpt=filename to r.colors, to set the
color rules for a raster map from a GMT ASCII file?

oh, I forgot I'd already done a GRASS->GMT color table translator for the
r.out.gmt script.
  http://grass.gdf-hannover.de/wiki/GRASS_AddOns#Raster_add-ons

working on the other direction now.

"no data" color can be represented in the GRASS color rules file with
"nv".

Hamish

11

On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 13:43 +1300, Hamish wrote:

Brad Douglas wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 13:25 -0700, Hamish wrote:
> > Brad:
> > > (paraphrasing) You can't copyright colors
> >
> > ... but can you copyright a series of colors? Maybe I'm thinking more
> > from a mathematical standpoint versus a legal one, but if you take
> > the 2D case instead of the 1D case, then you have an image, which is
> > copyrightable. Presumably we can incorporate anything from GMT though
> > (GPL). [I like their bathymetry scheme]
>
> "Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs;
> mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring;
> mere listings of ingredients or contents."
>
> That leads me to believe that the image product is copyrightable, but
> the input colors (the ingredients) are not copyrightable.

The original work is in the combination of the colors. But I think you
are right it is the image not the colors which have copyright. (unless
the rules themselves are printed, as in computer code or a poem)
??

It was my understanding that that wording was there to stop paint
companies from trying to lay claim to some specific "Nevada Sunset"
RRR:GGG:BBB combo. They can trademark the name, but not copyright the
color. (sorry to mix trademark & copyright here)

That seems like a reasonable justification. In reality, I see very few
palettes on the site that are in question.

similarly (but less relevant) Harley-Davidson recently losing it's court
case over trying to trademark the sound of its engine when another
manufacturer came out with something sounding not-dissimilar. The best
they could do would be to copyright a recording of it, but that is about
as enforceable as copyrighting a recording of 4'33" of silence.

> I'll get clarification from one of my despicable lawyer friends. :wink:

hey, if someone doesn't like to share, then from purely a public
relations standpoint we probably should respect that. Even if we are
legally free to do it, there is a moral duty not to.

Of course, we should respect people's work and ask for permission if the
license is not obviously compatible. We should also always give credit
where due, no matter the license.

I'm interested in how this could possibly affect GRASS and other OSS.
It's good to have some understanding of the legal implications of our
work and how others could potentially abuse it.

We can make r.colors accept any rules file the user gives it, the
question we are dealing with is what can be incorporated into the offical
grass distro.

Correct.

the individual colors in the palette can't be, but what of the order
of the palette?

This is why I want clarification. OTOH, could we probably ++ or -- the
RGB triplets, but again, that's bad form.

I'll contact the site maintainer for guidance provided someone has time
to do the work of importing interesting palettes. Anyone up for the
task? If not we can drop the thread unless anyone is interested in my
findings.

--
73, de Brad KB8UYR/6 <rez touchofmadness com>

12

On 10/3/07 11:17 AM, "Benjamin Ducke" <benjamin.ducke@ufg.uni-kiel.de>
wrote:

So how about adding an option cpt=filename to r.colors, to set the
color rules for a raster map from a GMT ASCII file?

It's already in there for GRASS 6.3

Michael

__________________________________________
Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology
Director of Graduate Studies
School of Human Evolution & Social Change
Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity
Arizona State University

phone: 480-965-6213
fax: 480-965-7671
www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton

13

Benjamin Ducke wrote:

All the palettes are available in GMT color format, which is just plain
ASCII and very similar to GRASS' own colour rule files in the 'cols'
database elements. The only major difference seems to be three
additional lines at the end of the file specifying colours for
foreground, background and no data areas which could simply be
discarded.

GRASS colour tables have an entry for null, which corresponds to
"no data", but the foreground and background values can be discarded.

So how about adding an option cpt=filename to r.colors, to set the
color rules for a raster map from a GMT ASCII file?

That would probably be straightforward.

The best of these styles could still be hardcoded into r.colors'
database.

In that case, you might be better off with a script which converts GMT
palettes to files suitable for use by r.colours.

--
Glynn Clements <glynn@gclements.plus.com>

14

Dylan Beaudette wrote:

> All the palettes are available in GMT color format, which is just plain
> ASCII and very similar to GRASS' own colour rule files in the 'cols'
> database elements. The only major difference seems to be three
> additional lines at the end of the file specifying colours for
> foreground, background and no data areas which could simply be
> discarded.

Indeed. Will have to poke around in the r.colors source -- anyone an expert on
how the rules file is parsed?

See lib/gis/color_rules.c.

Note that those functions are used by r.colors to parse its input (-i,
rules=, color=rules), which differs from the internal format of GRASS
colour tables (r.colors files can have values specified as a
percentage, the internal format requires absolute values).

--
Glynn Clements <glynn@gclements.plus.com>

15

Brad Douglas wrote:

> > P.S.: Some of these palettes actually have licenses attached to them.
> > What sort of a world do we live in that requires the most trivial
> > things to be licensed? Come on people, you can give _some_ things to
> > the public domain w/o conditions ...
>
> My thoughts exactly- however you are going to have to pay-up if you decide to
> implement this idea! j/k

The product palette image can be copyrighted, but the palette, itself,
cannot be copyrighted.

From copyrights.gov[1] - What can NOT be copyrighted (not a complete
list):

As GRASS is distributed internationally, it isn't sufficient to comply
with US law.

What is subject to copyright varies internationally. E.g. typefaces
are not subject to copyright in the US, but they are in other
countries (e.g. Germany).

On the subject of typefaces, the US Copyright Office considers that
bitmap fonts aren't subject to copyright, being nothing more than a
representation of a typeface, but that outline fonts are considered
computer "programs" and thus subject to copyright.

By the same reasoning, a .cpt (etc) file might be considered a
"program" which generates the colouring.

If the creator of a palette is claming copyright, it wouldn't be a
good idea to dismiss that claim without adequate legal advice (which
would need to encompass more than just US law).

--
Glynn Clements <glynn@gclements.plus.com>