[GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

Christian_Ferreira1 · July 2, 2008, 6:17pm

Hi all,

I come here with a question/dilemma...

Why ps.map lacks so much user support?

A lot of people know about GRASS all over the world, but nearly nobody
use it, since nearly any software in the world is less difficult to
produce maps.

GRASS is a wonderful tool for analysis, but it fails to produce the
ultimate result: a map.

Even GMT is widely used, because a lot of people SHARE the scripts,
and there is the "GMT cookbook" on the official website.

But for GRASS everybody can see some good examples here:

http://grass.itc.it/screenshots/cartography.php

But nearly nobody share the scripts to make these wonderful maps...
and you know, a lot of people will never "lose" their time trying to
figure out how ps.map works just using the man page.

Ps.map also needs a "cookbook" in the future.

And at: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts

Ok, we have finally a few scripts, but poorly documented.

I use GRASS since 2001, it is nearly a complete solution for GIS (in
my opinion), but ps.map was always the weak point (in my opinion
too)... normally I need to export all my region/data to
GMT/ArcView/Surfer to make the final map.

For example, my latest work was two pages for an atlas for National
Geographic Brasil/Brazil, with a work that I started developing with
GRASS since 2001... but guess if GRASS was used for the final map?

This is a shame for me.

I am aware of g-ps.map (the alternate GUI for ps.map), but will take
sometime until it became truth.

So... If there someone who wants to share his knowlegde, I can at
least help to compile and document the material to prepare a real
"ps.map cookbook" on the GRASS-Wiki.

Who will join me, and share some material?

Best regards,
Christian

--
Christian dos Santos Ferreira
Oceanographer
Coordinator of Poseidon Linux
QGIS translator (EN to Brazilian Portuguese)
GRASS user since 2001 and "philosopher" for features

Pablo_Carreira · July 2, 2008, 8:44pm

Good questioning.
My solution is that I use Qgis with PDF output to produce the ilustration part of the map and them make the final product with all the legend and titles with Scribus.

Pablo Torres Carreira
INCRA/Araraquara - Brazil.

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:17:18 +0200
From: chris.for.lists@googlemail.com
To: grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

Hi all,

I come here with a question/dilemma…

Why ps.map lacks so much user support?

A lot of people know about GRASS all over the world, but nearly nobody
use it, since nearly any software in the world is less difficult to
produce maps.

GRASS is a wonderful tool for analysis, but it fails to produce the
ultimate result: a map.

Even GMT is widely used, because a lot of people SHARE the scripts,
and there is the “GMT cookbook” on the official website.

But for GRASS everybody can see some good examples here:

http://grass.itc.it/screenshots/cartography.php

But nearly nobody share the scripts to make these wonderful maps…
and you know, a lot of people will never “lose” their time trying to
figure out how ps.map works just using the man page.

Ps.map also needs a “cookbook” in the future.

And at: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts

Ok, we have finally a few scripts, but poorly documented.

I use GRASS since 2001, it is nearly a complete solution for GIS (in
my opinion), but ps.map was always the weak point (in my opinion
too)… normally I need to export all my region/data to
GMT/ArcView/Surfer to make the final map.

For example, my latest work was two pages for an atlas for National
Geographic Brasil/Brazil, with a work that I started developing with
GRASS since 2001… but guess if GRASS was used for the final map?

This is a shame for me.

I am aware of g-ps.map (the alternate GUI for ps.map), but will take
sometime until it became truth.

So… If there someone who wants to share his knowlegde, I can at
least help to compile and document the material to prepare a real
“ps.map cookbook” on the GRASS-Wiki.

Who will join me, and share some material?

Best regards,
Christian

–
Christian dos Santos Ferreira
Oceanographer
Coordinator of Poseidon Linux
QGIS translator (EN to Brazilian Portuguese)
GRASS user since 2001 and “philosopher” for features

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Dylan_Beaudette1 · July 2, 2008, 9:08pm

On Wednesday 02 July 2008, Christian Ferreira wrote:

Hi all,

I come here with a question/dilemma...

Why ps.map lacks so much user support?

Good question.

A lot of people know about GRASS all over the world, but nearly nobody
use it, since nearly any software in the world is less difficult to
produce maps.

GRASS is a wonderful tool for analysis, but it fails to produce the
ultimate result: a map.

Partially by design, GRASS is primarily geared toward data processing and
analysis.

Even GMT is widely used, because a lot of people SHARE the scripts,
and there is the "GMT cookbook" on the official website.

Glad you mention GMT. It could potentially become what ps.map isn't quite once
the python bindings for both GMT and GRASS are a little more mature.

But for GRASS everybody can see some good examples here:

http://grass.itc.it/screenshots/cartography.php

But nearly nobody share the scripts to make these wonderful maps...
and you know, a lot of people will never "lose" their time trying to
figure out how ps.map works just using the man page.

Ps.map also needs a "cookbook" in the future.

And at: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts

Ok, we have finally a few scripts, but poorly documented.

A ps.map cookbook would be nice- would you like to start it? I imagine that
you will get a couple good ones after posting this. Once you have them, along
with a screen shot, you could post the annotated examples on the wiki.

I use GRASS since 2001, it is nearly a complete solution for GIS (in
my opinion), but ps.map was always the weak point (in my opinion
too)... normally I need to export all my region/data to
GMT/ArcView/Surfer to make the final map.

For example, my latest work was two pages for an atlas for National
Geographic Brasil/Brazil, with a work that I started developing with
GRASS since 2001... but guess if GRASS was used for the final map?

This is a shame for me.

It is a shame. GMT is usually my map-making favorite. Alternatively GRASS +
GMT + Inkscape / Illustrator.

I am aware of g-ps.map (the alternate GUI for ps.map), but will take
sometime until it became truth.

So... If there someone who wants to share his knowlegde, I can at
least help to compile and document the material to prepare a real
"ps.map cookbook" on the GRASS-Wiki.

Who will join me, and share some material?

Best regards,
Christian

Good luck,

Dylan

--
Christian dos Santos Ferreira
Oceanographer
Coordinator of Poseidon Linux
QGIS translator (EN to Brazilian Portuguese)
GRASS user since 2001 and "philosopher" for features
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user

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Dylan Beaudette
Soil Resource Laboratory
http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

martinl · July 2, 2008, 9:10pm

Hi,

2008/7/2 Dylan Beaudette <dylan.beaudette@gmail.com>:

Why ps.map lacks so much user support?

Good question.

I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1],
should be done in the next few mouths.

Martin

[1] http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#GUI_for_ps.map

--
Martin Landa <landa.martin gmail.com> * http://gama.fsv.cvut.cz/~landa *

Glynn_Clements1 · July 2, 2008, 9:37pm

Martin Landa wrote:

>> Why ps.map lacks so much user support?
>
> Good question.

I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1],
should be done in the next few mouths.

FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x.

Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands.

--
Glynn Clements <glynn@gclements.plus.com>

martinl · July 2, 2008, 9:50pm

Hi,

2008/7/2 Glynn Clements <glynn@gclements.plus.com>:

Martin Landa wrote:

>> Why ps.map lacks so much user support?
>
> Good question.

I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1],
should be done in the next few mouths.

FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x.

Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands.

I know, GUI for ps.map is just temporary solution (at least for
grass6), some notes here

http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Direct_printing

Martin

--
Martin Landa <landa.martin gmail.com> * http://gama.fsv.cvut.cz/~landa *

Christian_Ferreira1 · July 3, 2008, 7:16am

Hi,

While the core developers decide about the future for ps.map... I will
keep my idea for a cookbook going, since the "GRASS version upgrade
rate" for users can take months to years. And considering that GRASS
6.4 is not out, seems that GRASS 7 final will be out in 2009/2010.

Then... for some users, grass 7 is years away...

Also, I not a developer... so, my focus is not so much into the
future... but in the actual situation... the potential users and
newbie users that GRASS lose every year because of ps.map. Specially
for those people, the cookbook is necessary.

Thomas Adams is with me... who else?

Christian

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Glynn Clements
<glynn@gclements.plus.com> wrote:

Martin Landa wrote:

>> Why ps.map lacks so much user support?
>
> Good question.

I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1],
should be done in the next few mouths.

FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x.

Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands.

--
Glynn Clements <glynn@gclements.plus.com>
_______________________________________________
grass-user mailing list
grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user

neteler · July 3, 2008, 7:40am

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:16 AM, Christian Ferreira
<chris.for.lists@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi,

While the core developers decide about the future for ps.map... I will
keep my idea for a cookbook going,

Please consider to use the GRASS Wiki for that. This is the best place
to develop community documents.

Also, I not a developer... so, my focus is not so much into the
future... but in the actual situation... the potential users and
newbie users that GRASS lose every year because of ps.map. Specially
for those people, the cookbook is necessary.

That's perfect. (Power) users are the right people to write user documentation.

The document will most likely evolve into the right direction.

Markus

maning_sambale · July 3, 2008, 8:14am

+1 on the ps.map cookbook

I can provide my ps.map files. Some ideas:
1. Techniques in making atlas, like a script that can use a single
ps.map config to a number of regions to create a map atlas expanding
the ps.atlas script.

2. More http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/AreaFillPatterns for
landuse/cover, geology, etc.

3. Basic/advanced ps.map config for various map layout

4. How-to on integrating ps.map output to other graphics/printing apps
(scribus, gimp, latex)

When I got the hang of ps.map, I find it easier to tweak map layouts.
Much like when you got the hang of using mapserver's map file :).
Actually it seems very similar to mapserver's mapfile.

cheers,
maning

On 7/3/08, Christian Ferreira <chris.for.lists@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi,

While the core developers decide about the future for ps.map... I will
keep my idea for a cookbook going, since the "GRASS version upgrade
rate" for users can take months to years. And considering that GRASS
6.4 is not out, seems that GRASS 7 final will be out in 2009/2010.

Then... for some users, grass 7 is years away...

Also, I not a developer... so, my focus is not so much into the
future... but in the actual situation... the potential users and
newbie users that GRASS lose every year because of ps.map. Specially
for those people, the cookbook is necessary.

Thomas Adams is with me... who else?

Christian

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Glynn Clements
<glynn@gclements.plus.com> wrote:

Martin Landa wrote:

>> Why ps.map lacks so much user support?
>
> Good question.

I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1],
should be done in the next few mouths.

FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x.

Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands.

--
Glynn Clements <glynn@gclements.plus.com>
_______________________________________________
grass-user mailing list
grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user

_______________________________________________
grass-user mailing list
grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user

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mlennert · July 3, 2008, 10:26am

On 03/07/08 09:16, Christian Ferreira wrote:

Hi,

While the core developers decide about the future for ps.map... I will
keep my idea for a cookbook going, since the "GRASS version upgrade
rate" for users can take months to years. And considering that GRASS
6.4 is not out, seems that GRASS 7 final will be out in 2009/2010.

Then... for some users, grass 7 is years away...

Also, I not a developer... so, my focus is not so much into the
future... but in the actual situation... the potential users and
newbie users that GRASS lose every year because of ps.map. Specially
for those people, the cookbook is necessary.

Thomas Adams is with me... who else?

See
http://geog-pc40.ulb.ac.be/grass/psmap/

for two ps.map files and the resulting map, showing thematic mapping, proportionate circles and patterns. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the pattern files I used...

Once I have some time, I'll try to contribute some more, possibly about using R to create symbols which you can then integrate with the eps '$' option in vpoints (see ages.png as an example, but can't find the psmap file right now )

Moritz

Hamish · July 3, 2008, 1:56pm

FYI, I've added some more hints & tricks to the wiki page:
http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts

Moritz Lennert wrote:

See http://geog-pc40.ulb.ac.be/grass/psmap/

for two ps.map files and the resulting map, showing thematic mapping,
proportionate circles and patterns. Unfortunately, I seem
to have lost the pattern files I used...

Look in $GISBASE/etc/paint/patterns/

Once I have some time, I'll try to contribute some
more, possibly about using R to create symbols which you can then
integrate with the eps '$' option in vpoints (see ages.png as an
example, but can't find the psmap file right now )

Nice bar graphs -> lets you do d.vect.chart magic with ps.map.

how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend?

Hamish

Hamish · July 3, 2008, 2:03pm

maning sambale:

I can provide my ps.map files.

thanks - http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts

Some ideas:
1. Techniques in making atlas, like a script that can use
a single ps.map config to a number of regions to create a map
atlas expanding the ps.atlas script.

see http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/GRASS_AddOns#ps.atlas

2. More http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/AreaFillPatterns for
landuse/cover, geology, etc.

go for it. instructions to do that are at the above link.

3. Basic/advanced ps.map config for various map layout

advanced options are only used if you specify them.
by default you just need basic 1 or 2 line instructions.
(?)

4. How-to on integrating ps.map output to other
graphics/printing apps (scribus, gimp, latex)

those in the know, please expand:
http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts#Integration_with_other_software

regards,
Hamish

mlennert · July 3, 2008, 2:12pm

On 03/07/08 15:56, Hamish wrote:

FYI, I've added some more hints & tricks to the wiki page:
http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts

Moritz Lennert wrote:

See http://geog-pc40.ulb.ac.be/grass/psmap/

for two ps.map files and the resulting map, showing thematic mapping,
proportionate circles and patterns. Unfortunately, I seem
to have lost the pattern files I used...

Look in $GISBASE/etc/paint/patterns/

Yes, but I customized them slightly for my needs and I think I must have erased those customised versions...

Once I have some time, I'll try to contribute some
more, possibly about using R to create symbols which you can then
integrate with the eps '$' option in vpoints (see ages.png as an
example, but can't find the psmap file right now )

Nice bar graphs -> lets you do d.vect.chart magic with ps.map.

Yep, actually much more than d.vect.chart since you can create any form you want (have also worked with triangles)...

how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend?

I create a new vector point map (belscale in the psmap files) with the points placed at the spot where I would like the legend. Then it suffices to update the values in the attribute table to relevant values related to your map and to display this 'map' just like the real one...

One thing that still bothers me with bubble plot is the lack of the possibility to sort the bubbles so that you are sure to have the largest in the back...

But I would like to work on all this for a new d.thematic.points...when I have time again.

Moritz

Hamish · July 3, 2008, 2:47pm

Hamish:

> how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend?

Moritz Lennert wrote:

I create a new vector point map (belscale in the psmap
files) with the points placed at the spot where I would
like the legend.
Then it suffices to update the values in the attribute table to
relevant values related to your map and to display this 'map' just
like the real one...

thanks for the trick.

One thing that still bothers me with bubble plot is the
lack of the possibility to sort the bubbles so that you are
sure to have the largest in the back...

fillcolor=none and go by outer ring :-/
ISTR some code to sort them was committed somewhere..

I see the New York Times often has nice bubble plots for their maps.
They make the fill color semi-transparent, then stacked bubbles are
darker where they overlap. PostScript won't "do" transparency, so
perhaps something to look for in the grass7 display drivers.

Hamish

mlennert · July 3, 2008, 3:26pm

On 03/07/08 16:47, Hamish wrote:

Hamish:

how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend?

Moritz Lennert wrote:

I create a new vector point map (belscale in the psmap
files) with the points placed at the spot where I would
like the legend.
Then it suffices to update the values in the attribute table to
relevant values related to your map and to display this 'map' just
like the real one...

thanks for the trick.

One thing that still bothers me with bubble plot is the
lack of the possibility to sort the bubbles so that you are
sure to have the largest in the back...

fillcolor=none and go by outer ring :-/
ISTR some code to sort them was committed somewhere..

I once created a d.vect.chart2 [1] in which I sorted the bubbles, but never committed it. At this stage, I'd rather implement it in d.thematic.point.

I see the New York Times often has nice bubble plots for their maps.
They make the fill color semi-transparent, then stacked bubbles are
darker where they overlap. PostScript won't "do" transparency, so
perhaps something to look for in the grass7 display drivers.

Doesn't postscript 3 include transparency ?

But I still think that an option to ordering them should be available.

Moritz

[1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2006-October/026624.html

Hamish · July 3, 2008, 4:14pm

Moritz

Doesn't postscript 3 include transparency ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_(graphic)#Transparency_in_PDF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_(graphic)#Transparency_in_PostScript

Hamish

Glynn_Clements1 · July 3, 2008, 4:56pm

Moritz Lennert wrote:

> I see the New York Times often has nice bubble plots for their maps.
> They make the fill color semi-transparent, then stacked bubbles are
> darker where they overlap. PostScript won't "do" transparency, so
> perhaps something to look for in the grass7 display drivers.

Doesn't postscript 3 include transparency ?

No.

PostScript will probably never attempt to include translucency in the
same way that video-oriented graphics systems do.

For video, translucency is implemented by alpha-blending, i.e.
interpolating between the colour being drawn and what's already in the
frame buffer.

Printers only have 1-bit per component in the frame buffer, i.e. 1bpp
for mono, 4bpp for CMYK, and use halftones to simulate intermediate
shades. Interpolation doesn't work when you only have "off" and "on".

You can simulate translucency to an extent in PostScript using pattern
fills. But this is a lot more complex than with video, as you have to
specifically design all of the patterns to produce the correct result
when overlaid, which means figuring out which parts overlap each other
in advance.

The alternative is to render eveything to a 24-bpp image then print
that. But that creates huge PS/PDF files, which isn't a problem if
you're just sending PS to a printer, but isn't good if you're making
PDFs for download.

For similar reasons, PDF only supports translucency for filled areas,
not for images.

SVG doesn't have this problem, as it's targeted at video rather than
hardcopy.

--
Glynn Clements <glynn@gclements.plus.com>

Christian_Ferreira1 · July 3, 2008, 9:54pm

Hello Maning,

Yes... I would like to receive your contributions (ps.map files).

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:14 AM, maning sambale
<emmanuel.sambale@gmail.com> wrote:

+1 on the ps.map cookbook

I can provide my ps.map files. Some ideas:
1. Techniques in making atlas, like a script that can use a single
ps.map config to a number of regions to create a map atlas expanding
the ps.atlas script.

2. More http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/AreaFillPatterns for
landuse/cover, geology, etc.

This looks interesting.

3. Basic/advanced ps.map config for various map layout

4. How-to on integrating ps.map output to other graphics/printing apps
(scribus, gimp, latex)

This is a point where we need someone with a good experience on it to
contribute.

When I got the hang of ps.map, I find it easier to tweak map layouts.
Much like when you got the hang of using mapserver's map file :).
Actually it seems very similar to mapserver's mapfile.

Yes, this is true.

Markus... I will use the Wiki, ok?

Let's make this way... I will organize the "cookbook" this way (plus
with the ideas from Maning)

1) Short description how ps.map works (concept);
2) One or two simple scripts (to newbies have a startup);
3) Some advanced scripts;

For the complex/advanced scripts my idea is do something similar to
the Mapserver books from Tyler M. and Bill K. (I have both :-D)...
build a long ps.map file step-by-step. To make it clear what each part
is really doing, and how customize it.

Comments?

Best regards,
Christian

PS: Thanks Hamish and Moritz for the contributions!

Tim_Michelsen · July 4, 2008, 8:23am

see http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/GRASS_AddOns#ps.atlas

Please try to develop new scripts in a cross-platform way using python or any other scriping language that works easy with the windows version. The windows port together with a easy (non-programmers way) and relaible high quality production oportunity for maps is a key factor for the decision whether or not to choose FOSSGIS in my department in the next month...