[GRASS-user] r.terraflow -> streams ?

hello

can I produce stream map using r.terraflow maps ?

regards

--
Ahmet Temiz
Jeoloji Müh.
Afet Ýþleri Genel Müdürlüðü
Deprem Araþtýrma Dairesi
Tel: (312) 287 89 51 veya (312) 287 26 80/1547
Faks: (312) 287 89 51
E. Posta: temiz@deprem.gov.tr
www.deprem.gov.tr

Ahmet Temiz
Geological Eng.
General Directorate of Disaster Affairs
Earthquake Research Department
Phone: +90 (312) 287 89 51 or (312) 287 26 80/1547
Fax: +90 (312) 287 89 51
E. Mail: temiz@deprem.gov.tr
www.deprem.gov.tr

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On Tuesday 16 May 2006 02:59, orkun wrote:

hello

can I produce stream map using r.terraflow maps ?

regards

here is one such example:

http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/drupal/node/166

cheers,

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soils and Biogeochemistry Graduate Group
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

Dylan Beaudette wrote:

On Tuesday 16 May 2006 02:59, orkun wrote:

hello

can I produce stream map using r.terraflow maps ?

regards

here is one such example:

http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/drupal/node/166

cheers,

thank you

I looked the site you directed me.
Compared to r.watershed, r.terraflow produced stream map much faster. But
there seems to be broken streams. Although I lowered the accumulation threshold value, broken streams still exist.
How can I get unbroken streams using r.terraflow.

Since I worked on DEM quality, I saw some interesting features
in the other part of the site. Does "DEM vs. Field Slope" show
DEM's quality.

regards

--
Ahmet Temiz
Jeoloji Müh.
Afet Ýþleri Genel Müdürlüðü
Deprem Araþtýrma Dairesi
Tel: (312) 287 89 51 veya (312) 287 26 80/1547
Faks: (312) 287 89 51
E. Posta: temiz@deprem.gov.tr
www.deprem.gov.tr

Ahmet Temiz
Geological Eng.
General Directorate of Disaster Affairs
Earthquake Research Department
Phone: +90 (312) 287 89 51 or (312) 287 26 80/1547
Fax: +90 (312) 287 89 51
E. Mail: temiz@deprem.gov.tr
www.deprem.gov.tr

--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

On Wednesday 17 May 2006 00:42, orkun wrote:

Dylan Beaudette wrote:
>On Tuesday 16 May 2006 02:59, orkun wrote:
>>hello
>>
>>can I produce stream map using r.terraflow maps ?
>>
>>regards
>
>here is one such example:
>
>http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/drupal/node/166
>
>cheers,

thank you

I looked the site you directed me.
Compared to r.watershed, r.terraflow produced stream map much faster. But
there seems to be broken streams. Although I lowered the accumulation
threshold value, broken streams still exist.
How can I get unbroken streams using r.terraflow.

Hi,

You could try computing the line lengths, and throwing out features that are
less that a given length:

v.to.db ...
v.extract ...

Or.. it would be even better to characterize stream networks according to
their "order" , based on the number of contributaries feed into the main
channel. Then, keep all streams of order _n_ or greater.

Since I worked on DEM quality, I saw some interesting features
in the other part of the site. Does "DEM vs. Field Slope" show
DEM's quality.

I think that you might be referring to this image:
http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/drupal/node/189?size=_original

The title is a little confusing, as it is a comparison between slope values
measured in the field with a clinometer compared with slope values computed
from a DEM via r.slope.aspect . The take-home message from that graph was
that the DEM-computed slope values tended to under estimate field measured
values [1]. Also that a comparison between DEM and field slope seemed to work
best when comparing average slope within a 20 meter radius as compared to
using the DEM derived slope value at the exact location of the field
measurement.

[1] note that field measurement of slope is not an exact science, and is
certainly not conducted at the same scale at which the DEM for this area was
created (10 meter grid) .

Cheers,

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soils and Biogeochemistry Graduate Group
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

On Wednesday 17 May 2006 10:22, Ksenia Konwicki wrote:

Just a quick comment regarding DEM accuracy.

It is important to understand how a DEM was generated when considering
accuracy. Was it derived from points or contours, what interpolation
process was used, is the data prone to striping artifacts?

As an example, here in BC, point and breakline data - both hard and soft
breaklines - are provided as raw elevation data. We have done a fair number
of trials regarding how to create the most representative raster DEM. We
have looked at IDW, RST with various tension settings, and kriging using
point data, as well as deriving point data from the breaklines and creating
a TIN with breaklines interpolated to raster. The nature of the raw data
makes the TIN the optimal method - in essence the data was collected for
that DEM creation method. Also the nature of the data collection leads to
striping artifacts (see Albani & Klinkenberg, 2003) which must be removed
before the DEM is considered hydrologically sound and representative. This
is one factor that I have learned over the past year, without a high
quality DEM hydrologic modelling is compromised, no matter what flow
direction/flow accumulation algorithm you use.

Kessie.

Good points Kessie.

DEM creation, filtering, and all subsequent analysis can be somewhat of an art
form.

some interesting articles surface when searching for the reference that you
mentioned:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox&q=Albani++Klinkenberg%2C+2003&btnG=Search

Cheers,

Dylan

Dylan Beaudette wrote:
> On Wednesday 17 May 2006 00:42, orkun wrote:
> > Dylan Beaudette wrote:
> > >On Tuesday 16 May 2006 02:59, orkun wrote:
> > >>hello
> > >>
> > >>can I produce stream map using r.terraflow maps ?
> > >>
> > >>regards
> > >
> > >here is one such example:
> > >
> > >http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/drupal/node/166
> > >
> > >cheers,
> >
> > thank you
> >
> > I looked the site you directed me.
> > Compared to r.watershed, r.terraflow produced stream map much faster.
> > But there seems to be broken streams. Although I lowered the
> > accumulation threshold value, broken streams still exist.
> > How can I get unbroken streams using r.terraflow.
>
> Hi,
>
> You could try computing the line lengths, and throwing out features that
> are less that a given length:
>
> v.to.db ...
> v.extract ...
>
> Or.. it would be even better to characterize stream networks according to
> their "order" , based on the number of contributaries feed into the main
> channel. Then, keep all streams of order _n_ or greater.
>
> > Since I worked on DEM quality, I saw some interesting features
> > in the other part of the site. Does "DEM vs. Field Slope" show
> > DEM's quality.
>
> I think that you might be referring to this image:
> http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/drupal/node/189?size=_original
>
> The title is a little confusing, as it is a comparison between slope
> values measured in the field with a clinometer compared with slope values
> computed from a DEM via r.slope.aspect . The take-home message from that
> graph was that the DEM-computed slope values tended to under estimate
> field measured values [1]. Also that a comparison between DEM and field
> slope seemed to work best when comparing average slope within a 20 meter
> radius as compared to using the DEM derived slope value at the exact
> location of the field measurement.
>
> [1] note that field measurement of slope is not an exact science, and is
> certainly not conducted at the same scale at which the DEM for this area
> was created (10 meter grid) .
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Dylan Beaudette
> Soils and Biogeochemistry Graduate Group
> University of California at Davis
> 530.754.7341
>
> _______________________________________________
> grassuser mailing list
> grassuser@grass.itc.it
> http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser

--
Ksenia E. Konwicki, RPF
Ecologist

Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants
1579 9th Avenue
Prince George, BC V2L 3R8
P (250)562-2628
F (250)562-6942
E kes@timberline.ca

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soils and Biogeochemistry Graduate Group
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

On Thursday 18 May 2006 01:07, orkun wrote:

THANK YOU

Dylan Beaudette wrote:
>On Wednesday 17 May 2006 00:42, orkun wrote:
>>Dylan Beaudette wrote:
>>>On Tuesday 16 May 2006 02:59, orkun wrote:
>>>>hello
>>>>
>>>>can I produce stream map using r.terraflow maps ?
>>>>
>>>>regards
>>>
>>>here is one such example:
>>>
>>>http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/drupal/node/166
>>>
>>>cheers,
>>
>>thank you
>>
>>I looked the site you directed me.
>>Compared to r.watershed, r.terraflow produced stream map much faster. But
>>there seems to be broken streams. Although I lowered the accumulation
>>threshold value, broken streams still exist.
>>How can I get unbroken streams using r.terraflow.
>
>Hi,
>
>You could try computing the line lengths, and throwing out features that
> are less that a given length:
>
>v.to.db ...
>v.extract ...

In fact, I want to join broken lines to continuous lines, which are from
head of
upstream to downstream.

Hmm.. that might be a little bit harder. It might be simpler to extract _more_
lines than required, from the output of r.terraflow, and then remove the
extra lines that you do not want.

one possible way with with some raster commands:

r.terraflow elev=elev direction=dir filled=filled tci=tci acc=acc
swatershed=watershed
#get the watersheds
r.to.vect in=watershed out=watershed feature=area -s -v
#
#two possible ways to extract a very rough stream network
r.mapcalc "streams = if(tci >= 10, 1, null())"

#once you have your streams, then experiment with r.grow / r.thin to get the
best looking stream network.

>Or.. it would be even better to characterize stream networks according to
>their "order" , based on the number of contributaries feed into the main
>channel. Then, keep all streams of order _n_ or greater.
>
>>Since I worked on DEM quality, I saw some interesting features
>>in the other part of the site. Does "DEM vs. Field Slope" show
>>DEM's quality.
>
>I think that you might be referring to this image:
>http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/drupal/node/189?size=_original
>
>The title is a little confusing, as it is a comparison between slope
> values measured in the field with a clinometer compared with slope values
> computed from a DEM via r.slope.aspect . The take-home message from that
> graph was that the DEM-computed slope values tended to under estimate
> field measured values [1]. Also that a comparison between DEM and field
> slope seemed to work best when comparing average slope within a 20 meter
> radius as compared to using the DEM derived slope value at the exact
> location of the field measurement.

simply ground truth ? if so, what a coincidence !
All I want to do is to choose terrain models that are
produced with different parameters and methods
reflect real ground conditions.
that is to say:
which interpolation method for contour elevation data?
and which grid spacing ?

that is the topic of _many_ articles in the literature. I would suggest the
book Terrain Analysis for a good background:

Hutchinson, M.F. & Gallant, J.C. Wilson, J.P. & Gallant, J.C. (ed.) Digital
elevation models and representation of terrain shape Terrain Analysis, John
Wiley and Sons Inc., 2000 .

>[1] note that field measurement of slope is not an exact science, and is
>certainly not conducted at the same scale at which the DEM for this area
> was created (10 meter grid) .

Is "10 m grid" your preference to create slope map. Actually it
is my preference. As far as I see coarser grid than 10 m cannot
some morphological features such as slope, curvature, streams
and etc.

If you have time, I want to know your ideas.

All I had to work with was a 10 meter grid... you might try r.resamp.rst for a
finer grid ... however your results may vary.

I hope, grass will have krig interpolation feature
in next version.

you should be able to do this via the GRASS->R interface described in the
GRASS Newsletter vol. 3 (http://grass.itc.it/newsletter/GRASSNews_vol3.pdf)

cheers,

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soils and Biogeochemistry Graduate Group
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341