[GRASS5] Update from Chicago meeting

Dear GRASS Community,

after returning from the Chicago meeting I'll summarize below some relevant
points of the meeting discussions there which were supported by IRC chats.
25 people attended the meeting, a peak of 50-60 people were listening/writing
in the dedicated IRC channels. Comments from IRC were picked up [1] and
discussed, a couple of people also followed via telephone.

Here key points from the meeting:
   * Attendees represented over 17 different groups/companies and over 20
       different open source/free software geospatial projects
   * Foundation name: "Open Source Geospatial Foundation" or just OSGeo.
     Domain will be: http://osgeo.org (already registered, but not yet set up)
   * Initial membership started with attendees who met in Chicago
   * Initial/Interim board elected (from a longer list of proposals):
       - Arnulf Christl - Mapbender/ccgis.de, Germany
       - Chris Holmes - GeoServer, Open Plans, U.S.
       - Gary Lang - MapGuide, Autodesk, U.S.
       - Markus Neteler - GRASS, ITC-irst, Italy
       - Frank Warmerdam - GDAL, OGR, etc., Canada
   * Adding more members and board members will be discussed shortly
       after having set up the infrastructure.

New "OSGeo" mailing lists and Web site will be set up shortly, also the
minutes and results from the meeting will be posted there. This will take
a couple days to get this together. We had 10 hours in the meeting room
and yet very little time to actually post documents.

For me it was a very successful and productive meeting. While being very
skeptical before, I am now confident that the "migration" from a Mapserver
oriented foundation to a global "Geo" foundation happens. Looking at
the interim board, we see that various different projects are represented
from (currently) two continents.

Initially, I was skeptical as I wanted to avoid a Mapserver/Mapguide centric
foundation, and only limited to software issues. The scope of the new OSGeo
foundation is much wider and includes also GIS (not only mapping), promotion
of Free geospatial data (for parts of the world outside North America) and
education issues such as a GFOSS core curriculum. Of course these ideas are
still templates which have to be filled by the communities.

The goal is to establish the new foundation as reference point for all
relevant GFOSS communities. It was discussed to make the new web server a
"one stop shop" for the participating projects. This would help to avoid that
people have to seek many different web sites etc. But also a sourceforge
style shall be avoided.
An idea is to migrate projects to the foundation to homogenize the look and
feel while getting provided all necessary infrastructure (Web server, Mailing
lists, bug tracker, compile farm, whatever else). Things are inspired by the
successful Apache Foundation. However, the new foundation will not strictly
follow their principles which would not make much sense either. For example,
a transfer of the copyright does simply not work for many projects and is
also not desired by everyone. But I see many benefits in migrating the
project hosting to a single server (network):

- harmonized look and feel ("branding" of the GFOSS projects to appear
  as well established and cohesive suggestion to users and clients)
- less work at our end of maintaining the infrastructure
- possibility to easily redirect issues/bug reports across communities
- if possible, compile farm to generate packages for various operating
  systems
- more...

However, this will certainly take time and details have to be worked out.

For now, a couple of projects were suggested to be initial projects in
the new foundation:

- Mapbender
- MapBuilder
- MapGuide
- GDAL/OGR
- GRASS
- OSSIM

The Mapserver project is currently doing a poll in their community
(probably to avoid the November/December problems).

Since copyrights are not touched, my suggestion is to get GRASS into
the foundation. It plays an important role as the only complete free GIS.
So it should become a visible part of the open source GIS product stack.
Unless the question appears to move software/communication channels to a
foundation infrastructure, not much will change for now. But GRASS will
be recognized as key project in this initiative. This may be a good
opportunity to get out of the niche. Cohesion and transparency are
also desired to avoid parallel development of identical algorithms.

I see a major advantage in improving the cohesion between the various
GFOSS projects out there, the Saturday meeting changed my skeptical
opinion into a favourable one. Since I was suggested and elected into
the board, we'll have some influence to get things into the right
direction.

There are various blogs about the new foundation:
http://mappinghacks.com/index.cgi/2006/02/04#osgeo-foundation
http://www.perrygeo.net/wordpress/?p=27
http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2092&trv=1
http://spatialgalaxy.net/?cat=3
http://geotips.blogspot.com/2006/02/open-source-geospatial-foundation.html
...and more...

Images (for now still on the old server since the osgeo.org isn't set up yet):
http://www1.mapserverfoundation.org/chicago-pics/images.html

Hoping for comments,
best regards

Markus

[1] http://logs.qgis.org/geofoundation/
     -> #geofoundation.2006-02-04.log
     -> [Community] [Funding] [Governance] [Legal]

Markus,

I support your proposal.

Moritz

On Tue, February 7, 2006 19:05, Markus Neteler wrote:

Dear GRASS Community,

after returning from the Chicago meeting I'll summarize below some
relevant
points of the meeting discussions there which were supported by IRC chats.
25 people attended the meeting, a peak of 50-60 people were
listening/writing
in the dedicated IRC channels. Comments from IRC were picked up [1] and
discussed, a couple of people also followed via telephone.

Here key points from the meeting:
   * Attendees represented over 17 different groups/companies and over 20
       different open source/free software geospatial projects
   * Foundation name: "Open Source Geospatial Foundation" or just OSGeo.
     Domain will be: http://osgeo.org (already registered, but not yet set
up)
   * Initial membership started with attendees who met in Chicago
   * Initial/Interim board elected (from a longer list of proposals):
       - Arnulf Christl - Mapbender/ccgis.de, Germany
       - Chris Holmes - GeoServer, Open Plans, U.S.
       - Gary Lang - MapGuide, Autodesk, U.S.
       - Markus Neteler - GRASS, ITC-irst, Italy
       - Frank Warmerdam - GDAL, OGR, etc., Canada
   * Adding more members and board members will be discussed shortly
       after having set up the infrastructure.

New "OSGeo" mailing lists and Web site will be set up shortly, also the
minutes and results from the meeting will be posted there. This will take
a couple days to get this together. We had 10 hours in the meeting room
and yet very little time to actually post documents.

For me it was a very successful and productive meeting. While being very
skeptical before, I am now confident that the "migration" from a Mapserver
oriented foundation to a global "Geo" foundation happens. Looking at
the interim board, we see that various different projects are represented
from (currently) two continents.

Initially, I was skeptical as I wanted to avoid a Mapserver/Mapguide
centric
foundation, and only limited to software issues. The scope of the new
OSGeo
foundation is much wider and includes also GIS (not only mapping),
promotion
of Free geospatial data (for parts of the world outside North America) and
education issues such as a GFOSS core curriculum. Of course these ideas
are
still templates which have to be filled by the communities.

The goal is to establish the new foundation as reference point for all
relevant GFOSS communities. It was discussed to make the new web server a
"one stop shop" for the participating projects. This would help to avoid
that
people have to seek many different web sites etc. But also a sourceforge
style shall be avoided.
An idea is to migrate projects to the foundation to homogenize the look
and
feel while getting provided all necessary infrastructure (Web server,
Mailing
lists, bug tracker, compile farm, whatever else). Things are inspired by
the
successful Apache Foundation. However, the new foundation will not
strictly
follow their principles which would not make much sense either. For
example,
a transfer of the copyright does simply not work for many projects and is
also not desired by everyone. But I see many benefits in migrating the
project hosting to a single server (network):

- harmonized look and feel ("branding" of the GFOSS projects to appear
  as well established and cohesive suggestion to users and clients)
- less work at our end of maintaining the infrastructure
- possibility to easily redirect issues/bug reports across communities
- if possible, compile farm to generate packages for various operating
  systems
- more...

However, this will certainly take time and details have to be worked out.

For now, a couple of projects were suggested to be initial projects in
the new foundation:

- Mapbender
- MapBuilder
- MapGuide
- GDAL/OGR
- GRASS
- OSSIM

The Mapserver project is currently doing a poll in their community
(probably to avoid the November/December problems).

Since copyrights are not touched, my suggestion is to get GRASS into
the foundation. It plays an important role as the only complete free GIS.
So it should become a visible part of the open source GIS product stack.
Unless the question appears to move software/communication channels to a
foundation infrastructure, not much will change for now. But GRASS will
be recognized as key project in this initiative. This may be a good
opportunity to get out of the niche. Cohesion and transparency are
also desired to avoid parallel development of identical algorithms.

I see a major advantage in improving the cohesion between the various
GFOSS projects out there, the Saturday meeting changed my skeptical
opinion into a favourable one. Since I was suggested and elected into
the board, we'll have some influence to get things into the right
direction.

There are various blogs about the new foundation:
http://mappinghacks.com/index.cgi/2006/02/04#osgeo-foundation
http://www.perrygeo.net/wordpress/?p=27
http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2092&trv=1
http://spatialgalaxy.net/?cat=3
http://geotips.blogspot.com/2006/02/open-source-geospatial-foundation.html
...and more...

Images (for now still on the old server since the osgeo.org isn't set up
yet):
http://www1.mapserverfoundation.org/chicago-pics/images.html

Hoping for comments,
best regards

Markus

[1] http://logs.qgis.org/geofoundation/
     -> #geofoundation.2006-02-04.log
     -> [Community] [Funding] [Governance] [Legal]

_______________________________________________
grass5 mailing list
grass5@grass.itc.it
http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grass5

Hello Markus,

at first, thank you for detailed description of the meeting. As you
already said, I also thing this was a very productive meeting just by
the impression I became while joined #geofoundation for about 2
hours on saturday!

Some comments inline.

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 19:05:25 +0100 Markus Neteler <neteler@itc.it>
wrote:

Dear GRASS Community,

after returning from the Chicago meeting I'll summarize below some
relevant points of the meeting discussions there which were supported
by IRC chats. 25 people attended the meeting, a peak of 50-60 people
were listening/writing in the dedicated IRC channels. Comments from
IRC were picked up [1] and discussed, a couple of people also
followed via telephone.

Here key points from the meeting:
   * Attendees represented over 17 different groups/companies and
over 20 different open source/free software geospatial projects
   * Foundation name: "Open Source Geospatial Foundation" or just
OSGeo. Domain will be: http://osgeo.org (already registered, but not
yet set up)
   * Initial membership started with attendees who met in Chicago
   * Initial/Interim board elected (from a longer list of proposals):
       - Arnulf Christl - Mapbender/ccgis.de, Germany
       - Chris Holmes - GeoServer, Open Plans, U.S.
       - Gary Lang - MapGuide, Autodesk, U.S.
       - Markus Neteler - GRASS, ITC-irst, Italy
       - Frank Warmerdam - GDAL, OGR, etc., Canada

Good mixture between geographers and coders though.
Nice to see you there :slight_smile:

   * Adding more members and board members will be discussed shortly
       after having set up the infrastructure.

New "OSGeo" mailing lists and Web site will be set up shortly, also
the minutes and results from the meeting will be posted there. This
will take a couple days to get this together. We had 10 hours in the
meeting room and yet very little time to actually post documents.

For me it was a very successful and productive meeting. While being
very skeptical before, I am now confident that the "migration" from a
Mapserver oriented foundation to a global "Geo" foundation happens.
Looking at the interim board, we see that various different projects
are represented from (currently) two continents.

Initially, I was skeptical as I wanted to avoid a Mapserver/Mapguide
centric foundation, and only limited to software issues. The scope of
the new OSGeo foundation is much wider and includes also GIS (not
only mapping), promotion of Free geospatial data (for parts of the
world outside North America) and education issues such as a GFOSS
core curriculum. Of course these ideas are still templates which have
to be filled by the communities.

One point I thought to put on the carta before the conference was
the free geospatial data part. Good to see that this will be one of the
focus of OSGeo (at least outside US).

The goal is to establish the new foundation as reference point for all
relevant GFOSS communities. It was discussed to make the new web
server a "one stop shop" for the participating projects. This would
help to avoid that people have to seek many different web sites etc.
But also a sourceforge style shall be avoided.

Good idea. Supplying all relevant part for building a Free GIS/mapping
setup should be grabbed from a centralized place. However, this is not
an easy task to setup.

An idea is to migrate projects to the foundation to homogenize the
look and feel while getting provided all necessary infrastructure
(Web server, Mailing lists, bug tracker, compile farm, whatever
else). Things are inspired by the successful Apache Foundation.
However, the new foundation will not strictly follow their principles
which would not make much sense either. For example, a transfer of
the copyright does simply not work for many projects and is also not
desired by everyone. But I see many benefits in migrating the project
hosting to a single server (network):

- harmonized look and feel ("branding" of the GFOSS projects to appear
  as well established and cohesive suggestion to users and clients)
- less work at our end of maintaining the infrastructure
- possibility to easily redirect issues/bug reports across communities
- if possible, compile farm to generate packages for various operating
  systems
- more...

However, this will certainly take time and details have to be worked
out.

For now, a couple of projects were suggested to be initial projects in
the new foundation:

- Mapbender
- MapBuilder
- MapGuide
- GDAL/OGR
- GRASS
- OSSIM

The Mapserver project is currently doing a poll in their community
(probably to avoid the November/December problems).

Did you decide "by your own" that GRASS will to be part of the
foundation? BTW, I fully support this idea, because GRASS is a mayor
tool for "creating" data, which is needed to present them...

Since copyrights are not touched, my suggestion is to get GRASS into
the foundation. It plays an important role as the only complete free
GIS. So it should become a visible part of the open source GIS
product stack.

full ACK.

Unless the question appears to move
software/communication channels to a foundation infrastructure, not
much will change for now. But GRASS will be recognized as key project
in this initiative. This may be a good opportunity to get out of the
niche. Cohesion and transparency are also desired to avoid parallel
development of identical algorithms.

I see a major advantage in improving the cohesion between the various
GFOSS projects out there, the Saturday meeting changed my skeptical
opinion into a favourable one. Since I was suggested and elected into
the board, we'll have some influence to get things into the right
direction.

Again, nice to see you there

There are various blogs about the new foundation:
http://mappinghacks.com/index.cgi/2006/02/04#osgeo-foundation
http://www.perrygeo.net/wordpress/?p=27
http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2092&trv=1
http://spatialgalaxy.net/?cat=3
http://geotips.blogspot.com/2006/02/open-source-geospatial-foundation.html
...and more...

Images (for now still on the old server since the osgeo.org isn't set
up yet): http://www1.mapserverfoundation.org/chicago-pics/images.html

Hoping for comments,
best regards

Markus

[1] http://logs.qgis.org/geofoundation/
     -> #geofoundation.2006-02-04.log
     -> [Community] [Funding] [Governance] [Legal]

BTW, nice to read the logs, Schuyler did an amazing job on IRC.

Best
  Stephan

--
GDF Hannover - Solutions for spatial data analysis and remote sensing
Hannover Office - Mengendamm 16d - D-30177 Hannover
Internet: www.gdf-hannover.de - Email: holl@gdf-hannover.de
Phone : ++49-(0)511.39088507 - Fax: ++49-(0)511.39088508

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 12:15:12PM +0100, Stephan Holl wrote:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 19:05:25 +0100 Markus Neteler <neteler@itc.it>
wrote:

> Dear GRASS Community,

...

Did you decide "by your own" that GRASS will to be part of the
foundation? BTW, I fully support this idea, because GRASS is a mayor
tool for "creating" data, which is needed to present them...

No, I did not *decide* anything. GRASS was proposed by someone
else in the room and they asked me if I would agree.
So did I, since I don't see legal implications. A OSGEO
Foundation without GIS doesn't make much sense to me.
But I said that I will post the suggestion to the community
(here, us) to get a consensus on this. It's a proposal.

It is anticipated that all projects have to survive the
"incubator" phase [1] (similar to what the Apache project is
doing). Maybe GRASS doesn't survive... (ok, just kiddin')?

A lot of things will have to be checked before any project
will be accepted by the foundation (intellectual property,
code maturity etc). This has yet to be defined.

...

BTW, nice to read the logs, Schuyler did an amazing job on IRC.

Yes, Schuyler did a great job.

Markus

[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#incubator

Hello Markus,

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:43:03 +0100 Markus Neteler <neteler@itc.it> wrote:

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 12:15:12PM +0100, Stephan Holl wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 19:05:25 +0100 Markus Neteler <neteler@itc.it>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear GRASS Community,
...
> Did you decide "by your own" that GRASS will to be part of the
> foundation? BTW, I fully support this idea, because GRASS is a mayor
> tool for "creating" data, which is needed to present them...

No, I did not *decide* anything. GRASS was proposed by someone
else in the room and they asked me if I would agree.
So did I, since I don't see legal implications. A OSGEO
Foundation without GIS doesn't make much sense to me.
But I said that I will post the suggestion to the community
(here, us) to get a consensus on this. It's a proposal.

I am fine with this. I would like to see GRASS as a foundation-member,
since it is the only mature free GIS.

It is anticipated that all projects have to survive the
"incubator" phase [1] (similar to what the Apache project is
doing). Maybe GRASS doesn't survive... (ok, just kiddin')?

:slight_smile:

A lot of things will have to be checked before any project
will be accepted by the foundation (intellectual property,
code maturity etc). This has yet to be defined.

Yes. It seems that some amount of work will come up in the next weeks
to define this guidelines for acceptance.

...

> BTW, nice to read the logs, Schuyler did an amazing job on IRC.

Yes, Schuyler did a great job.

Markus

[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#incubator

Stephan

--
GDF Hannover - Solutions for spatial data analysis and remote sensing
Hannover Office - Mengendamm 16d - D-30177 Hannover
Internet: www.gdf-hannover.de - Email: holl@gdf-hannover.de
Phone : ++49-(0)511.39088507 - Fax: ++49-(0)511.39088508

On Feb 8, 2006, at 8:21 AM, Stephan Holl wrote:

Hello Markus,

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:43:03 +0100 Markus Neteler <neteler@itc.it> wrote:

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 12:15:12PM +0100, Stephan Holl wrote:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 19:05:25 +0100 Markus Neteler <neteler@itc.it>
wrote:

Dear GRASS Community,

...

Did you decide "by your own" that GRASS will to be part of the
foundation? BTW, I fully support this idea, because GRASS is a mayor
tool for "creating" data, which is needed to present them...

No, I did not *decide* anything. GRASS was proposed by someone
else in the room and they asked me if I would agree.
So did I, since I don't see legal implications. A OSGEO
Foundation without GIS doesn't make much sense to me.
But I said that I will post the suggestion to the community
(here, us) to get a consensus on this. It's a proposal.

I am fine with this. I would like to see GRASS as a foundation-member,
since it is the only mature free GIS.

We have discussed the issue of the foundation here before Markus left
for the meeting and the idea was supported by everybody who bothered
to express his opinion, so I believe that Markus had a mandate to agree for all
of us for GRASS to become a founding member (while Mapserver has to wait
for its procedures to go through so you don't see them in the list of founding projects
although they initiated the idea, I assume thy will be there soon too).
The foundation is really important for many reasons, as one of the meeting participants
mentioned, the individual projects are becoming more dependent on each other
(GDAL is a good example of a project upon which many others depend)
so coordination and a formal organization is becoming ever more important.

And of course we are all happy to see Markus elected to the OS GEO board,

Helena

It is anticipated that all projects have to survive the

"incubator" phase [1] (similar to what the Apache project is
doing). Maybe GRASS doesn't survive... (ok, just kiddin')?

:slight_smile:

A lot of things will have to be checked before any project
will be accepted by the foundation (intellectual property,
code maturity etc). This has yet to be defined.

Yes. It seems that some amount of work will come up in the next weeks
to define this guidelines for acceptance.

...

BTW, nice to read the logs, Schuyler did an amazing job on IRC.

Yes, Schuyler did a great job.

Markus

[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#incubator

Stephan

--
GDF Hannover - Solutions for spatial data analysis and remote sensing
Hannover Office - Mengendamm 16d - D-30177 Hannover
Internet: www.gdf-hannover.de - Email: holl@gdf-hannover.de
Phone : ++49-(0)511.39088507 - Fax: ++49-(0)511.39088508

_______________________________________________
grass5 mailing list
grass5@grass.itc.it
http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grass5

Helena Mitasova
Dept. of Marine, Earth and Atm. Sciences
1125 Jordan Hall, NCSU Box 8208,
Raleigh NC 27695
http://skagit.meas.ncsu.edu/~helena/

Just want to add my voice on list that I fully support GRASS participation
in the new OSGeo Foundation. Hats off to Markus for not only making GRASS an
integral founding member of this exciting new organization for geospatial
technologies, but for also getting elected to the initial board.

Michael
__________________________________________
Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology
School of Human Evolution and Social Change
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ 85287-2402

phone: 480-965-6213
fax: 480-965-7671
www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton

From: Stephan Holl <holl@gdf-hannover.de>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:21:38 +0100
To: Markus Neteler <neteler@itc.it>
Cc: grass developers list <grass5@grass.itc.it>, GRASS user list
<grasslist@baylor.edu>
Subject: [GRASSLIST:10205] Re: [GRASS5] Update from Chicago meeting

Hello Markus,

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:43:03 +0100 Markus Neteler <neteler@itc.it> wrote:

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 12:15:12PM +0100, Stephan Holl wrote:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 19:05:25 +0100 Markus Neteler <neteler@itc.it>
wrote:

Dear GRASS Community,

...

Did you decide "by your own" that GRASS will to be part of the
foundation? BTW, I fully support this idea, because GRASS is a mayor
tool for "creating" data, which is needed to present them...

No, I did not *decide* anything. GRASS was proposed by someone
else in the room and they asked me if I would agree.
So did I, since I don't see legal implications. A OSGEO
Foundation without GIS doesn't make much sense to me.
But I said that I will post the suggestion to the community
(here, us) to get a consensus on this. It's a proposal.

I am fine with this. I would like to see GRASS as a foundation-member,
since it is the only mature free GIS.

It is anticipated that all projects have to survive the
"incubator" phase [1] (similar to what the Apache project is
doing). Maybe GRASS doesn't survive... (ok, just kiddin')?

:slight_smile:

A lot of things will have to be checked before any project
will be accepted by the foundation (intellectual property,
code maturity etc). This has yet to be defined.

Yes. It seems that some amount of work will come up in the next weeks
to define this guidelines for acceptance.

...

BTW, nice to read the logs, Schuyler did an amazing job on IRC.

Yes, Schuyler did a great job.

Markus

[1] How the ASF works

Stephan

--
GDF Hannover - Solutions for spatial data analysis and remote sensing
Hannover Office - Mengendamm 16d - D-30177 Hannover
Internet: www.gdf-hannover.de - Email: holl@gdf-hannover.de
Phone : ++49-(0)511.39088507 - Fax: ++49-(0)511.39088508