[GRASSLIST:9625] water resource management with GRASS & RDBMS

GRASS GRASS user
1

As some of you may or may not know. that OTHER software company is trying to establish their Geodatabase data model as a “GIS standard” (at least this is the trend in the US from what I’m seeing). I havent been impressed or enthused about it at all. This second generation, “windows only” software (arcmap) by that other company has had many, many shortcomings, failure to function in a production environment, and bugs that hardly justify the price tag.

In their attempt to weave the Geodatabase into the fabric of government agencies and large corporations, which has the trickle down effect on consultants who work for them (Water management agencies in this specific application), they have come out with this “ArcHydro” concept. RFPs are coming out asking for “ArcHydro”.

The book for arcHydro states right up front, (although you have to really read between the lines), it is still a pre/post processor for real water model simulation software to do what they do best. However, it is obviously biased from that other company’s geodatabase approach. In reading it thus far, i really dont see why this cannot be done with GRASS and a RDBMS.

Has anyone implemented and used arcHydro? If so, what is your thoughts on a GRASS/RDBMS approach?

Would anyone find a corresponding open source solution document, which unless conflicting with an existing name already, I will call “OpenHydro”, useful as an open source solution to what the proprietary company is promoting in their latest round of propaganda?

I am forced to learn this ArcHydro procedure/framework to do a project our company won, which called specifically for the implementation of ArcHydro. However, through my readings and implementation, I plan on making the same concept available through open source tools, specifically with the use of GRASS and a RDBMS.

Basically I’m looking to find 1) anyone who has used arcHydro and 2) if there is interest in generating an “OpenHydro” alternative using GRASS.

Surely all the open source developers and users are on the “nice” list of Santa!

Wishing Happy Holidays around the world!

2

Hello, I've just used some functions of the ArcHydroTools....
Then I just developed a DB structure for online-realtime stationa and a Rainfall-runoff Distributed Model within GRASS (embedded)....
I think that your idea is really nice and helpfull.
I also think that it could be ported in the OpenSource by using GRASS data structure!!!
I also believe that I could adjust my model to get starting data and pre-processing from this new data structure,
in order to build an hydrologic GRASS application structure...

I used the perfix h.modulename for my new developed command.
This could be an idea....

currently my model name is HydroFOSS... so OpenHydro I think is free :slight_smile:

Let me know your impression.

Have a nice holyday.

Massimiliano

M S wrote:

As some of you may or may not know. that OTHER software company is trying
to establish their Geodatabase data model as a "GIS standard" (at least this
is the trend in the US from what I'm seeing). I havent been impressed or
enthused about it at all. This second generation, "windows only" software
(arcmap) by that other company has had many, many shortcomings, failure to
function in a production environment, and bugs that hardly justify the price
tag.

In their attempt to weave the Geodatabase into the fabric of government
agencies and large corporations, which has the trickle down effect on
consultants who work for them (Water management agencies in this specific
application), they have come out with this "ArcHydro" concept. RFPs are
coming out asking for "ArcHydro".

The book for arcHydro states right up front, (although you have to really
read between the lines), it is still a pre/post processor for real water
model simulation software to do what they do best. However, it is obviously
biased from that other company's geodatabase approach. In reading it thus
far, i really dont see why this cannot be done with GRASS and a RDBMS.

Has anyone implemented and used arcHydro? If so, what is your thoughts on a
GRASS/RDBMS approach?

Would anyone find a corresponding open source solution document, which
unless conflicting with an existing name already, I will call "OpenHydro",
useful as an open source solution to what the proprietary company is
promoting in their latest round of propaganda?

I am forced to learn this ArcHydro procedure/framework to do a project our
company won, which called specifically for the implementation of ArcHydro.
However, through my readings and implementation, I plan on making the same
concept available through open source tools, specifically with the use of
GRASS and a RDBMS.

Basically I'm looking to find 1) anyone who has used arcHydro and 2) if
there is interest in generating an "OpenHydro" alternative using GRASS.

Surely all the open source developers and users are on the "nice" list of
Santa!

Wishing Happy Holidays around the world!

--

Eng. Massimiliano Cannata
Scuola Universitaria Professionale della Svizzera Italiana
Istituto Scienze della Terra
Via Trevano, c.p. 72
CH-6952 Canobbio-Lugano
Tel: +41 (0)58 666 62 18
Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09

3

excellent! I have much more reading to do, and as i continue down the road I will proabalby be seeking help from people like your self.

once I gain more experience with archydro (i’m a vetern of arc/info vector and raster data modeling, and they hydro functions within the A/I GRID module) I will be able to apply these concepts to the GRASS modules.

On 12/23/05, Massimiliano Cannata <massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch> wrote:

Hello, I’ve just used some functions of the ArcHydroTools…
Then I just developed a DB structure for online-realtime stationa and a
Rainfall-runoff Distributed Model within GRASS (embedded)…
I think that your idea is really nice and helpfull.
I also think that it could be ported in the OpenSource by using GRASS
data structure!!!
I also believe that I could adjust my model to get starting data and
pre-processing from this new data structure,
in order to build an hydrologic GRASS application structure…

I used the perfix h.modulename for my new developed command.
This could be an idea…

currently my model name is HydroFOSS… so OpenHydro I think is free :slight_smile:

Let me know your impression.

Have a nice holyday.

Massimiliano

M S wrote:

As some of you may or may not know. that OTHER software company is trying
to establish their Geodatabase data model as a “GIS standard” (at least this
is the trend in the US from what I’m seeing). I havent been impressed or
enthused about it at all. This second generation, “windows only” software
(arcmap) by that other company has had many, many shortcomings, failure to
function in a production environment, and bugs that hardly justify the price
tag.

In their attempt to weave the Geodatabase into the fabric of government
agencies and large corporations, which has the trickle down effect on
consultants who work for them (Water management agencies in this specific
application), they have come out with this “ArcHydro” concept. RFPs are
coming out asking for “ArcHydro”.

The book for arcHydro states right up front, (although you have to really
read between the lines), it is still a pre/post processor for real water
model simulation software to do what they do best. However, it is obviously
biased from that other company’s geodatabase approach. In reading it thus
far, i really dont see why this cannot be done with GRASS and a RDBMS.

Has anyone implemented and used arcHydro? If so, what is your thoughts on a
GRASS/RDBMS approach?

Would anyone find a corresponding open source solution document, which
unless conflicting with an existing name already, I will call “OpenHydro”,
useful as an open source solution to what the proprietary company is
promoting in their latest round of propaganda?

I am forced to learn this ArcHydro procedure/framework to do a project our
company won, which called specifically for the implementation of ArcHydro.
However, through my readings and implementation, I plan on making the same
concept available through open source tools, specifically with the use of
GRASS and a RDBMS.

Basically I’m looking to find 1) anyone who has used arcHydro and 2) if
there is interest in generating an “OpenHydro” alternative using GRASS.

Surely all the open source developers and users are on the “nice” list of
Santa!

Wishing Happy Holidays around the world!

–

Eng. Massimiliano Cannata
Scuola Universitaria Professionale della Svizzera Italiana
Istituto Scienze della Terra
Via Trevano, c.p. 72
CH-6952 Canobbio-Lugano
Tel: +41 (0)58 666 62 18
Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09

4

Hi,

I'm working in a civil engineering company and we're doing many water management studies.
I'm not really a GIS user but since gis are becomes more widely used, we're interested in using gis software.
For example, a GRASS (or QGIS) interface for epanet toolkit can really be a killing app.
I've seen a grass4 module for floodplain analysis using HEC-2 model. This can be a really cool feature too.

I haven't any programming skills but I'm very interessested by this kind of features. So I'll be glad to help.

But since I don't know ArcHydro, maybe I misunderstand the subject :slight_smile:

M S a écrit :

As some of you may or may not know. that OTHER software company is trying to establish their Geodatabase data model as a "GIS standard" (at least this is the trend in the US from what I'm seeing). I havent been impressed or enthused about it at all. This second generation, "windows only" software (arcmap) by that other company has had many, many shortcomings, failure to function in a production environment, and bugs that hardly justify the price tag.

In their attempt to weave the Geodatabase into the fabric of government agencies and large corporations, which has the trickle down effect on consultants who work for them (Water management agencies in this specific application), they have come out with this "ArcHydro" concept. RFPs are coming out asking for "ArcHydro".

The book for arcHydro states right up front, (although you have to really read between the lines), it is still a pre/post processor for real water model simulation software to do what they do best. However, it is obviously biased from that other company's geodatabase approach. In reading it thus far, i really dont see why this cannot be done with GRASS and a RDBMS.

Has anyone implemented and used arcHydro? If so, what is your thoughts on a GRASS/RDBMS approach?

Would anyone find a corresponding open source solution document, which unless conflicting with an existing name already, I will call "OpenHydro", useful as an open source solution to what the proprietary company is promoting in their latest round of propaganda?

I am forced to learn this ArcHydro procedure/framework to do a project our company won, which called specifically for the implementation of ArcHydro. However, through my readings and implementation, I plan on making the same concept available through open source tools, specifically with the use of GRASS and a RDBMS.

Basically I'm looking to find 1) anyone who has used arcHydro and 2) if there is interest in generating an "OpenHydro" alternative using GRASS.

Surely all the open source developers and users are on the "nice" list of Santa!

Wishing Happy Holidays around the world!

5

Replying to MS and Massimiliano,

I spent a little time trying to see what it is that ArcHydro actually does.
It is indeed a complex hydrological data model, in part due the fact that it
is operationalized in a vector environment. A large part of the ArcHydro
data model looks like it could be done in the GRASS environment with an
RDBMS (a number possible with GRASS, including PostgreSQL [with PostGIS],
MySQL [widely known and also has a spatial data extension, though the latter
doesn't seem as well known as PostGIS], SQLite [compact, with all tables in
a single file]). The availability of network analysis tools for GRASS and
the fact that it is topological are helpful in this regard.

That said, it seems at an admittedly brief glance, that a considerable
amount of ArcHydro functionality could be achievable and perhaps simpler
using the GRASS raster tools. Hydrological analysis and modeling has a long
history in GRASS and is particularly well developed, with numerous
modules--including, for example, r.flow, r.terraflow, r.basin.fill,
r.watershed, r.topmodel, etc.

When these are combined with the mapcalculator and scripted, you can do a
lot.

Michael
__________________________________________
Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology
School of Human Evolution and Social Change
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ 85287-2402

phone: 480-965-6213
fax: 480-965-7671
www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton

From: Massimiliano Cannata <massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:02:19 +0100
To: M S <mseibel@gmail.com>
Cc: GRASS Users List <grasslist@baylor.edu>
Subject: [GRASSLIST:9627] Re: water resource management with GRASS & RDBMS

Hello, I've just used some functions of the ArcHydroTools....
Then I just developed a DB structure for online-realtime stationa and a
Rainfall-runoff Distributed Model within GRASS (embedded)....
I think that your idea is really nice and helpfull.
I also think that it could be ported in the OpenSource by using GRASS
data structure!!!
I also believe that I could adjust my model to get starting data and
pre-processing from this new data structure,
in order to build an hydrologic GRASS application structure...

I used the perfix h.modulename for my new developed command.
This could be an idea....

currently my model name is HydroFOSS... so OpenHydro I think is free :slight_smile:

Let me know your impression.

Have a nice holyday.

Massimiliano

M S wrote:

As some of you may or may not know. that OTHER software company is trying
to establish their Geodatabase data model as a "GIS standard" (at least this
is the trend in the US from what I'm seeing). I havent been impressed or
enthused about it at all. This second generation, "windows only" software
(arcmap) by that other company has had many, many shortcomings, failure to
function in a production environment, and bugs that hardly justify the price
tag.

In their attempt to weave the Geodatabase into the fabric of government
agencies and large corporations, which has the trickle down effect on
consultants who work for them (Water management agencies in this specific
application), they have come out with this "ArcHydro" concept. RFPs are
coming out asking for "ArcHydro".

The book for arcHydro states right up front, (although you have to really
read between the lines), it is still a pre/post processor for real water
model simulation software to do what they do best. However, it is obviously
biased from that other company's geodatabase approach. In reading it thus
far, i really dont see why this cannot be done with GRASS and a RDBMS.

Has anyone implemented and used arcHydro? If so, what is your thoughts on a
GRASS/RDBMS approach?

Would anyone find a corresponding open source solution document, which
unless conflicting with an existing name already, I will call "OpenHydro",
useful as an open source solution to what the proprietary company is
promoting in their latest round of propaganda?

I am forced to learn this ArcHydro procedure/framework to do a project our
company won, which called specifically for the implementation of ArcHydro.
However, through my readings and implementation, I plan on making the same
concept available through open source tools, specifically with the use of
GRASS and a RDBMS.

Basically I'm looking to find 1) anyone who has used arcHydro and 2) if
there is interest in generating an "OpenHydro" alternative using GRASS.

Surely all the open source developers and users are on the "nice" list of
Santa!

Wishing Happy Holidays around the world!

--

Eng. Massimiliano Cannata
Scuola Universitaria Professionale della Svizzera Italiana
Istituto Scienze della Terra
Via Trevano, c.p. 72
CH-6952 Canobbio-Lugano
Tel: +41 (0)58 666 62 18
Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09