R: R: [Geoserver-devel] R: Geoserver Enterprise

GeoServer GeoServer Developer
1

I updated the page with a few info, just a start...

There's one point that bothers me much, and it's the distinction
between GeoServer and GeoTools (and uDig for that matter).
The page:
  http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GeoServer+2.0+Design
lists this goal:
  "...A framework in which geo-spatial web applications and services
can be built upon..."

So we're talking exclusively of "Web" services???

I don't like the idea of having a framework that let's me do
something (using a service) ONLY through the Web.
I feel the framework should be able to give me a service
irrespective of where I call it from.
So the framework (configuration, instantiation ,etc.)
should be in GeoTools (or in some other "common" project),
then GeoServer will be a "Web" (light) interface upon that
framework and uDig may be a "graphical" (fat) interface
upon that very same framework.

In fact the tasks listed in the page (Catalog, Query, Transaction, Security)
are needed even outside GeoServer.

So, what do you all think about this???

Bye
Paolo Rizzi

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Justin Deoliveira [mailto:jdeolive@anonymised.com]
Inviato: lunedì 24 ottobre 2005 17.04
A: "P.Rizzi Ag.Mobilità Ambiente"
Cc: 'dblasby@anonymised.com'; Gabriel Roldán; "L.Percich Ag.Mobilità
Ambiente"; geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Oggetto: Re: R: [Geoserver-devel] R: Geoserver Enterprise

Hi Paolo,

I am glad you are interested in this topic. A technology has not yet
been decided on, still in the evaluation stage. OSGi is just
the first
one that I have had time to document. Next I plan to evaluate
Geronimo.

Please feel free to add JBoss to the list of candidates. It
you have the
time I would love if you could write some docs about why you
think its a
good way to go.

The list of technologies on the page is by no means complete
so please
add anything else you think should be there.

-Justin

P.Rizzi Ag.Mobilità Ambiente wrote:
>>Da: Justin Deoliveira [mailto:jdeolive@anonymised.com]
>>Inviato: venerdì 30 settembre 2005 19.20
>>We are in the process of putting up some wiki space
dedicated to the
>>design. It would be nice to start refining some of the great
>>discussions
>>that have been going on with OpenSDI and some of things you
guys have
>>been doing over the last little while into a architecure and
>>high level
>>design.
>>
>>Justin
>
> Sorry for disappearing in the last weeks, but I've been taken
> away with exporting data to remote Oracle instances...!!!
>
> I looked in the "RnD" Wiki space of GeoServer and saw the:
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GeoServer+2.0+Technology
> page, that seems the most recently updated.
>
> The only technology actually analized in depth is OSGi,
> does it means you already choose it, or simply is it the first one
> you addressed???
>
> I'd like to add JBoss as a suitable technology, and also a couple
> of other considerations. May I edit the page???
>
> I'm very interested in the proceeding of this and expecially in
> Dave's sentence:
> "...ps. from the last meeting, it appears the "data/catalog"
> portion of the framework will be somewhat like an expanded
> "DataEngine"
> (from the IRC meeting)...".
> I found no reference to this in the Wiki though... Where
can I find it???
>
> Bye
> Paolo Rizzi
>
>
>
>>P.Rizzi Ag.Mobilità Ambiente wrote:
>>
>>>>I read the transcript from yesterday's IRC meeting. Sorry
>>
>>we couldnt
>>
>>>>attend.
>>>
>>>I'm sorry, because we probably didn't advertised the IRC enough...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>For the last 2 weeks, I have been in Victoria talking with
>>
>>the two new
>>
>>>>TOPP employees (Brent Owens and Justin Deoliveira).
>>>>
>>>>We have been discussing a large number of topics, but one
>>
>>of the major
>>
>>>>discussions has been on the Geoserver Enterprise Edition.
>>>>
>>>>This is basically a new plug-in and extension-point based
system for
>>>>doing Geo-based web application (including things like WFS
>>
>>and WMS and
>>
>>>>WCS). And "customizing" existing applications. For
>>
>>example, the SIS
>>
>>>>stuff "plugging in" to WFS, and geo-wiki things. The new
Enterprise
>>>>edition will take geoserver from an application to a platform for
>>>>developing and customizing web-based geo-applications.
>>>>
>>>>We have discussed how we would provide services for most of
>>>>what's been
>>>>talked about on the mailing list and the few IRC
meetings. I think
>>>>you're going to be very excited about it. We are going to
>>>>write up our
>>>>ideas for next week and hope to get some feedback from you.
>>>
>>>Great!!! I'll wait to see what you came up with with much
>>
>>interest!!!
>>
>>>
>>>>dave
>>>
>>> Bye Paolo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>ps. from the last meeting, it appears the "data/catalog"
>>>>portion of the
>>>>framework will be somewhat like an expanded "DataEngine"
>>
>>(from the IRC
>>
>>>>meeting).
>>>
>>>I feel this is fundamental, so I'm happy to know we're
>>
>>quite tuned on it!!!
>>
>>>AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D. LGS. 196/2003
>>>Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta
>>
>>elettronica e/o nel/i
>>
>>>file/s allegato/i, sono da considerarsi strettamente
>>
>>riservate. Il loro
>>
>>>utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del
>>
>>messaggio, per le
>>
>>>finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceveste
>>
>>questo messaggio
>>
>>>senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di
>>
>>darcene notizia
>>
>>>via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso,
>>>cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema; costituisce comportamento
>>
>>contrario ai
>>
>>>principi dettati dal D. Lgs. 196/2003 il trattenere il
>>
>>messaggio stesso,
>>
>>>divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti,
>>
>>copiarlo, od
>>
>>>utilizzarlo per finalità diverse.
>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by:
>>>Power Architecture Resource Center: Free content,
>>
>>downloads, discussions,
>>
>>>and more. http://solutions.newsforge.com/ibmarch.tmpl
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Geoserver-devel mailing list
>>>Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Justin Deoliveira
>>The Open Planning Project
>>http://topp.openplans.org
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D. LGS. 196/2003
> Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta
elettronica e/o nel/i
> file/s allegato/i, sono da considerarsi strettamente
riservate. Il loro
> utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del
messaggio, per le
> finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceveste
questo messaggio
> senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di
darcene notizia
> via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso,
> cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema; costituisce comportamento
contrario ai
> principi dettati dal D. Lgs. 196/2003 il trattenere il
messaggio stesso,
> divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti,
copiarlo, od
> utilizzarlo per finalità diverse.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc.
> Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course
> Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through
End of 2005
> Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more
information
> _______________________________________________
> Geoserver-devel mailing list
> Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel
>

--
Justin Deoliveira
The Open Planning Project
http://topp.openplans.org

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D. LGS. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i
file/s allegato/i, sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro
utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le
finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceveste questo messaggio
senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia
via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso,
cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema; costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D. Lgs. 196/2003 il trattenere il messaggio stesso,
divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od
utilizzarlo per finalità diverse.

2

P.Rizzi Ag.Mobilità Ambiente wrote:

I updated the page with a few info, just a start...

I took a look at your docs, and this is great. I was unaware of the JBoss microcontainer stuff, looks pretty promising.

There's one point that bothers me much, and it's the distinction
between GeoServer and GeoTools (and uDig for that matter).
The page:
  http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GeoServer+2.0+Design
lists this goal:
  "...A framework in which geo-spatial web applications and services
can be built upon..."

So we're talking exclusively of "Web" services???

No. I apologize, the term service is used pretty loosley in that document. Web service is just one of the "interfaces" that should be integratable with the framework. Or at least that is how I see it.

I don't like the idea of having a framework that let's me do
something (using a service) ONLY through the Web.
I feel the framework should be able to give me a service
irrespective of where I call it from.

I fully agree, I think the key is that people already have a technology that they use to publish their services, J2EE, Web Services/Soap, etc.., so we need to creating something lightweight and non-invasive.

So the framework (configuration, instantiation ,etc.)
should be in GeoTools (or in some other "common" project),
then GeoServer will be a "Web" (light) interface upon that framework and uDig may be a "graphical" (fat) interface
upon that very same framework.

Yes, in an ideal world the "framework" would just be the plugin/container system used in geotools.

In fact the tasks listed in the page (Catalog, Query, Transaction, Security)
are needed even outside GeoServer.

As for these things, they were more or less just random thoughts of what people wanted to see. The more and more I think about it I dont think we should try to address these things. People have already solved these problems. Our framework needs to be able to integrate with these solutions.

So, what do you all think about this???

I think that everyone kind of has a slightly differnt idea of what GeoServer enterprise should look like. I am glad you restarted this discussion

Bye
Paolo Rizzi

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Justin Deoliveira [mailto:jdeolive@anonymised.com]
Inviato: lunedì 24 ottobre 2005 17.04
A: "P.Rizzi Ag.Mobilità Ambiente"
Cc: 'dblasby@anonymised.com'; Gabriel Roldán; "L.Percich Ag.Mobilità
Ambiente"; geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Oggetto: Re: R: [Geoserver-devel] R: Geoserver Enterprise

Hi Paolo,

I am glad you are interested in this topic. A technology has not yet been decided on, still in the evaluation stage. OSGi is just the first one that I have had time to document. Next I plan to evaluate Geronimo.

Please feel free to add JBoss to the list of candidates. It you have the time I would love if you could write some docs about why you think its a good way to go.

The list of technologies on the page is by no means complete so please add anything else you think should be there.

-Justin

P.Rizzi Ag.Mobilità Ambiente wrote:

Da: Justin Deoliveira [mailto:jdeolive@anonymised.com]
Inviato: venerdì 30 settembre 2005 19.20
We are in the process of putting up some wiki space

dedicated to the

design. It would be nice to start refining some of the great discussions that have been going on with OpenSDI and some of things you

guys have

been doing over the last little while into a architecure and high level design.

Justin

Sorry for disappearing in the last weeks, but I've been taken
away with exporting data to remote Oracle instances...!!!

I looked in the "RnD" Wiki space of GeoServer and saw the:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GeoServer+2.0+Technology
page, that seems the most recently updated.

The only technology actually analized in depth is OSGi,
does it means you already choose it, or simply is it the first one
you addressed???

I'd like to add JBoss as a suitable technology, and also a couple
of other considerations. May I edit the page???

I'm very interested in the proceeding of this and expecially in
Dave's sentence:
"...ps. from the last meeting, it appears the "data/catalog" portion of the framework will be somewhat like an expanded
"DataEngine" (from the IRC meeting)...".
I found no reference to this in the Wiki though... Where

can I find it???

Bye
Paolo Rizzi

P.Rizzi Ag.Mobilità Ambiente wrote:

I read the transcript from yesterday's IRC meeting. Sorry

we couldnt

attend.

I'm sorry, because we probably didn't advertised the IRC enough...

For the last 2 weeks, I have been in Victoria talking with

the two new

TOPP employees (Brent Owens and Justin Deoliveira).

We have been discussing a large number of topics, but one

of the major

discussions has been on the Geoserver Enterprise Edition.

This is basically a new plug-in and extension-point based

system for

doing Geo-based web application (including things like WFS

and WMS and

WCS). And "customizing" existing applications. For

example, the SIS

stuff "plugging in" to WFS, and geo-wiki things. The new

Enterprise

edition will take geoserver from an application to a platform for
developing and customizing web-based geo-applications.

We have discussed how we would provide services for most of what's been
talked about on the mailing list and the few IRC

meetings. I think

you're going to be very excited about it. We are going to write up our
ideas for next week and hope to get some feedback from you.

Great!!! I'll wait to see what you came up with with much

interest!!!

dave

    Bye Paolo

ps. from the last meeting, it appears the "data/catalog" portion of the
framework will be somewhat like an expanded "DataEngine"

(from the IRC

meeting).

I feel this is fundamental, so I'm happy to know we're

quite tuned on it!!!

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D. LGS. 196/2003 Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta

elettronica e/o nel/i

file/s allegato/i, sono da considerarsi strettamente

riservate. Il loro

utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del

messaggio, per le

finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceveste

questo messaggio

senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di

darcene notizia

via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso,
cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema; costituisce comportamento

contrario ai

principi dettati dal D. Lgs. 196/2003 il trattenere il

messaggio stesso,

divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti,

copiarlo, od

utilizzarlo per finalità diverse.

-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by:
Power Architecture Resource Center: Free content,

downloads, discussions,

and more. http://solutions.newsforge.com/ibmarch.tmpl
_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

--
Justin Deoliveira
The Open Planning Project
http://topp.openplans.org

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D. LGS. 196/2003 Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta

elettronica e/o nel/i

file/s allegato/i, sono da considerarsi strettamente

riservate. Il loro

utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del

messaggio, per le

finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceveste

questo messaggio

senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di

darcene notizia

via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso,
cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema; costituisce comportamento

contrario ai

principi dettati dal D. Lgs. 196/2003 il trattenere il

messaggio stesso,

divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti,

copiarlo, od

utilizzarlo per finalità diverse.

-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc.
Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course
Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through

End of 2005

Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more

information

_______________________________________________
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

--
Justin Deoliveira
The Open Planning Project
http://topp.openplans.org

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D. LGS. 196/2003 Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i
file/s allegato/i, sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro
utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le
finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceveste questo messaggio
senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia
via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso,
cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema; costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D. Lgs. 196/2003 il trattenere il messaggio stesso,
divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od
utilizzarlo per finalità diverse.

--
Justin Deoliveira
The Open Planning Project
http://topp.openplans.org