The Future of GRASS

GRASS GRASS user
1

Dear GRASS users and programmers,

    I'm surprised that Andreas Holz's posting on the future of GRASS
didn't get more response. (You will find a copy of his posting appended
to this posting.)

    I have many questions, but I think his proposal to create a
"Free GIS Foundation" should be considered seriously. Their are major
changes taking place in the US Federal government that will result
in much less funding for freeware in general and GRASS in particular.
Like Andreas I think the world needs an open GIS which is affordable
and open for everyone to view and modify as needed.

    GRASS could be the foundation for such a GIS. It is a good GIS
with a large highly skilled user/developer base. It was also developed
in the public domain, so the source code is publicly available for
all to use, modify, and redistribute. This is true even if CERL shuts
down the GRASS project.

    Before creating a new organization, I'ld like to know what the
existing organizations are doing.

    (1) What is the status of the CERL GRASS development program?
         Is it shuting down? Phasing down? ???
         Will there be a GRASS 5.0?
         If so, what will it contain?

    (2) Once upon a time there was an "Open GRASS Foundation" which
         then became the "Open GIS Foundation" which doesn't seem to
         have much interest in GRASS.
         Is this true?
         Are they relevant to the future of GRASS?

    (3) What happened to the GRASS Journal or GRASS Online Journal or ???

    (4) Did the same thing happen to the GRASS Conference?
         Since most GRASS (or Linux) users can't afford to attend
         conferences would it be practical to hold some sort of
         online conference? I suppose internet isn't quite there yet.
         At least, I'm not there with my 14.4 k baud SLIP account.

    (5) I keep hearing that some of the GRASS developers are now
         working on the "next generation of GIS software".
         Is this something the GRASS people should wait for?
         (Or is this like waiting for a good version of MS-Windows?)

    The Free Software Foundation, the Linux Project, publishers such as
Specialized System Consultants and O'Reiley & Associates, and internet
communications have all advanced the freeware industry a great deal.
They seem to be developing a freeware business model which is highly
decentralized and doesn't depend on major government and/or corporate
sponsors. This might work well for a "Free GIS Foundation."

    So if there was a "Free GIS Foundation"

    (1) How would it be funded?
         How much funding would be required?
         (Could this come from sales of advertising in online and paper
         publications, subscriptions, coffee cups and nick-nacks?)
         If so, who would fund it up front?

    (2) Could the modified versions of GRASS be moved to a GNU license
         or is this important? (This would help keep all future enhancements
         by anyone open to all.)

    (3) Would current GRASS users/programmers accept and aid a
         "Free GIS Foundation"?

                                                      David Mandel
                                                      Chief Activist
                                                      Portland Linux Users Grou
p
                                                      1114 NE 57th
                                                      Portland, Oregon 97213
                                                      USA
                                                      dmandel@transport.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

2

David:

I have been wondering much the same thing since I read the
posting on the future of GRASS. Specifically, I was wondering
if Rutgers might be considering giving GRASS a new home. Since
they have a large GRASS information page there is some logic to
it. Have you or Andreas heard any more on this subject. I have
been considering setting up a home page and might consider using
it as a distribution site. The costs don't seem out of range
but, to some extent, it would depend upon the ammount of
traffic. I agree that I would be more comfortable providing a
home for the GRASS code if it were covered under the GNU
copyright.

Jim Patek
Environmental Engineer
Patek and Associates
Austin, TX
jpatek@smokey.prismnet.com

David Mandel wrote:

Dear GRASS users and programmers,

    I'm surprised that Andreas Holz's posting on the future of GRASS
didn't get more response. (You will find a copy of his posting appended
to this posting.)

    I have many questions, but I think his proposal to create a
"Free GIS Foundation" should be considered seriously. Their are major
changes taking place in the US Federal government that will result
in much less funding for freeware in general and GRASS in particular.
Like Andreas I think the world needs an open GIS which is affordable
and open for everyone to view and modify as needed.

    GRASS could be the foundation for such a GIS. It is a good GIS
with a large highly skilled user/developer base. It was also developed
in the public domain, so the source code is publicly available for
all to use, modify, and redistribute. This is true even if CERL shuts
down the GRASS project.

    Before creating a new organization, I'ld like to know what the
existing organizations are doing.

    (1) What is the status of the CERL GRASS development program?
         Is it shuting down? Phasing down? ???
         Will there be a GRASS 5.0?
         If so, what will it contain?

    (2) Once upon a time there was an "Open GRASS Foundation" which
         then became the "Open GIS Foundation" which doesn't seem to
         have much interest in GRASS.
         Is this true?
         Are they relevant to the future of GRASS?

    (3) What happened to the GRASS Journal or GRASS Online Journal or ???

    (4) Did the same thing happen to the GRASS Conference?
         Since most GRASS (or Linux) users can't afford to attend
         conferences would it be practical to hold some sort of
         online conference? I suppose internet isn't quite there yet.
         At least, I'm not there with my 14.4 k baud SLIP account.

    (5) I keep hearing that some of the GRASS developers are now
         working on the "next generation of GIS software".
         Is this something the GRASS people should wait for?
         (Or is this like waiting for a good version of MS-Windows?)

    The Free Software Foundation, the Linux Project, publishers such as
Specialized System Consultants and O'Reiley & Associates, and internet
communications have all advanced the freeware industry a great deal.
They seem to be developing a freeware business model which is highly
decentralized and doesn't depend on major government and/or corporate
sponsors. This might work well for a "Free GIS Foundation."

    So if there was a "Free GIS Foundation"

    (1) How would it be funded?
         How much funding would be required?
         (Could this come from sales of advertising in online and paper
         publications, subscriptions, coffee cups and nick-nacks?)
         If so, who would fund it up front?

    (2) Could the modified versions of GRASS be moved to a GNU license
         or is this important? (This would help keep all future enhancements
         by anyone open to all.)

    (3) Would current GRASS users/programmers accept and aid a
         "Free GIS Foundation"?

                                                      David Mandel
                                                      Chief Activist
                                                      Portland Linux Users Gr

oup

                                                      1114 NE 57th
                                                      Portland, Oregon 97213
                                                      USA
                                                      dmandel@transport.com

----------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>From Andreas.Holz@oi32.kwu.siemens.deWed Mar 6 09:34:47 1996
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:42:28 +0100 (MEZ)
From: Andreas Holz <Andreas.Holz@oi32.kwu.siemens.de>
Reply to: grassu-list@moon.cecer.army.mil
Sender: grass-lists-owner@moon.cecer.army.mil.
Reply-To: grassu-list@moon.cecer.army.mil.
Precedence: Bulk
To: grassu-list@max.cecer.army.mil
Cc: GRASS@oi32.kwu.siemens.de, LINUX@oi32.kwu.siemens.de,
    Thre@oi32.kwu.siemens.de, GRASS@oi32.kwu.siemens.de,
    CD@oi32.kwu.siemens.de, and@oi32.kwu.siemens.de,
    the@oi32.kwu.siemens.de, shutdown@oi32.kwu.siemens.de,
    of@oi32.kwu.siemens.de, the@oi32.kwu.siemens.de,
    GRASS@oi32.kwu.siemens.de, development@oi32.kwu.siemens.de
Subject: grassp-list@max.cecer.army.mil

Dear GRASS users and programmers,

        a lot of thanks to all, who bought the GRASS CD for Linux and
        gave me support for my "GRASS for Linux on CD" project. There
        are only a few CD's available.

        I'm planning a new release for Linux based on the new
        Linux ELF format, but I won't release the CD before
        fall or winter 96, because I have to finish my PhD, I'm
        moving from south Germany to northeast and I'll start
        a job at a GIS-related office.

        In connection with the CD there will be available a book
        on GIS, esp. using GRASS, because there is no good and
        practical book on GIS available, from my knowledge.

        The new GRASS release will be much more stable ab bug free
        than the current CD.

        All users of the current CD wil get the new one for a special price.

        I was very surprised, when I read about the GRASS development
        shutdown, because I thought, there will be a new GRASS release,
        called GRASS 5.0 in Winter 95! This means, there will be no
        maintained free GIS availabe on the market!

        I think, now is the time to create a public project to
        maintain and to enhance the GRASS code in the future.

        I propose to create a "Free Gis Foundation" similar to the
        Linux project to:

                - manage the code
                - debug the code
                - enhance GRASS
                - create a modern user-interface
                - coordinate the development
                - manage a ftp-server
                - manage a GRASS www server
                .. and Your ideas

        And some questions to CERL:

                - what will be the state of GRASS-code after
                  the shutdown of development
                        - will the code be free in the future
                        - who will get the rights to distribute

Andreas

==============================================================
David Mandel, Linux Activist dmandel@transport.com
Internet Provided by: Transport Logic (503) 243-1940
               Serving the Pacific Northwestern USA
Portland * Vancouver * McMinnville * Salem * Bend

3

On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, J.M. Patek wrote:

David:

I have been wondering much the same thing since I read the
posting on the future of GRASS. Specifically, I was wondering
if Rutgers might be considering giving GRASS a new home.

No, I don't know what Rutgers is doing if anything.
I intend to contact them and see.

                                            Dave Mandel

==============================================================
David Mandel, Linux Activist dmandel@transport.com
Internet Provided by: Transport Logic (503) 243-1940
               Serving the Pacific Northwestern USA
Portland * Vancouver * McMinnville * Salem * Bend