Thank you for your information. I have to say I find that pretty frustrating and annoying knowing that GeoNetwork opensource is one of the incubator projects of OSGEO, the number of OSGEO projects is (still) limited and FOSS4G is the OSGEO conference.
Participating with the project in OSGEO has multiple reasons, one of them being that it provides opportunities to work on synergies and work on marketing the OSGEO software stack. Now how does the intent of OSGEOs mission fit with refusing a (single) workshop on one of its projects. Maybe I miss something, but I'd assumed there was at least some kind of a relation!?
Looking forward to some good feedback and discussion on this, also on the OSGEO mailing list as I consider that discussion very relevant in the further development of outreach strategies for ourselves and the OSGEO foundation through conferences.
Core question:
"Should OSGEO projects have guaranteed workshop and presentation space for at least one session?"
Regards,
Jeroen
On Mar 28, 2007, at 5:58 PM, FOSS4G 2007 wrote:
Dear Jeroen Ticheler,
We regret to inform you that we will not be able to accept your Half Day
workshop, "Using the GeoNetwork opensource Spatial Data Catalog", for the
FOSS4G 2007 program. We had a very large number of submissions this year, and
have been able to accept less than half of them
.
We hope you will consider bringing some of your ideas to the conference in the
form of a presentation. The Call for Presentations is currently open, and
there is room for 120 presentations at the conference this year
.
I appreciate your frustration, and I know it is shared by many others, as only 12 of the 34 3-hour workshop submissions could be hosted. The criteria the workshop committee used in their evaluation are here:
All the committee members ranked the submissions on those criteria and the rankings were averaged. Two workshops in the top 12 that were topic duplicates were removed and the next-lowest-ranked non-duplicates were moved up. It appears that being on the committee is no guarantee of satisfaction with the final result. The average of a bunch of lists people want is a list that no one is 100% happy with.
Paul
On 28-Mar-07, at 10:36 PM, Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
Dear people,
Thank you for your information. I have to say I find that pretty frustrating and annoying knowing that GeoNetwork opensource is one of the incubator projects of OSGEO, the number of OSGEO projects is (still) limited and FOSS4G is the OSGEO conference.
Participating with the project in OSGEO has multiple reasons, one of them being that it provides opportunities to work on synergies and work on marketing the OSGEO software stack. Now how does the intent of OSGEOs mission fit with refusing a (single) workshop on one of its projects. Maybe I miss something, but I'd assumed there was at least some kind of a relation!?
Looking forward to some good feedback and discussion on this, also on the OSGEO mailing list as I consider that discussion very relevant in the further development of outreach strategies for ourselves and the OSGEO foundation through conferences.
Core question:
"Should OSGEO projects have guaranteed workshop and presentation space for at least one session?"
Regards,
Jeroen
On Mar 28, 2007, at 5:58 PM, FOSS4G 2007 wrote:
Dear Jeroen Ticheler,
We regret to inform you that we will not be able to accept your Half Day
workshop, "Using the GeoNetwork opensource Spatial Data Catalog", for the
FOSS4G 2007 program. We had a very large number of submissions this year, and
have been able to accept less than half of them
.
We hope you will consider bringing some of your ideas to the conference in the
form of a presentation. The Call for Presentations is currently open, and
there is room for 120 presentations at the conference this year
.
Hi Paul,
Hard not to be frustrated if I look at the closed ranking/review process, the final list that includes non-OSGEO workshops and the fact that no consultation has taken place with workshop submitters on possible alternatives. Just the blunt email that closes the door.
Jeroen
On Mar 29, 2007, at 4:29 PM, Paul Ramsey wrote:
Jeroen,
I appreciate your frustration, and I know it is shared by many others, as only 12 of the 34 3-hour workshop submissions could be hosted. The criteria the workshop committee used in their evaluation are here:
All the committee members ranked the submissions on those criteria and the rankings were averaged. Two workshops in the top 12 that were topic duplicates were removed and the next-lowest-ranked non-duplicates were moved up. It appears that being on the committee is no guarantee of satisfaction with the final result. The average of a bunch of lists people want is a list that no one is 100% happy with.
Paul
On 28-Mar-07, at 10:36 PM, Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
Dear people,
Thank you for your information. I have to say I find that pretty frustrating and annoying knowing that GeoNetwork opensource is one of the incubator projects of OSGEO, the number of OSGEO projects is (still) limited and FOSS4G is the OSGEO conference.
Participating with the project in OSGEO has multiple reasons, one of them being that it provides opportunities to work on synergies and work on marketing the OSGEO software stack. Now how does the intent of OSGEOs mission fit with refusing a (single) workshop on one of its projects. Maybe I miss something, but I'd assumed there was at least some kind of a relation!?
Looking forward to some good feedback and discussion on this, also on the OSGEO mailing list as I consider that discussion very relevant in the further development of outreach strategies for ourselves and the OSGEO foundation through conferences.
Core question:
"Should OSGEO projects have guaranteed workshop and presentation space for at least one session?"
Regards,
Jeroen
On Mar 28, 2007, at 5:58 PM, FOSS4G 2007 wrote:
Dear Jeroen Ticheler,
We regret to inform you that we will not be able to accept your Half Day
workshop, "Using the GeoNetwork opensource Spatial Data Catalog", for the
FOSS4G 2007 program. We had a very large number of submissions this year, and
have been able to accept less than half of them
.
We hope you will consider bringing some of your ideas to the conference in the
form of a presentation. The Call for Presentations is currently open, and
there is room for 120 presentations at the conference this year
.
I count 12 projects on the slightly twitchy osgeo.org home page. I would agree that osgeo projects should be given a strong preference if not an automatic slot. With 12 workshops, it's hard to see why each project doesn't get a slot.
Allan
On Mar 29, 2007, at 11:15, Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
Hi Paul,
Hard not to be frustrated if I look at the closed ranking/review process, the final list that includes non-OSGEO workshops and the fact that no consultation has taken place with workshop submitters on possible alternatives. Just the blunt email that closes the door.
Jeroen
On Mar 29, 2007, at 4:29 PM, Paul Ramsey wrote:
Jeroen,
I appreciate your frustration, and I know it is shared by many others, as only 12 of the 34 3-hour workshop submissions could be hosted. The criteria the workshop committee used in their evaluation are here:
All the committee members ranked the submissions on those criteria and the rankings were averaged. Two workshops in the top 12 that were topic duplicates were removed and the next-lowest-ranked non-duplicates were moved up. It appears that being on the committee is no guarantee of satisfaction with the final result. The average of a bunch of lists people want is a list that no one is 100% happy with.
Paul
On 28-Mar-07, at 10:36 PM, Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
Dear people,
Thank you for your information. I have to say I find that pretty frustrating and annoying knowing that GeoNetwork opensource is one of the incubator projects of OSGEO, the number of OSGEO projects is (still) limited and FOSS4G is the OSGEO conference.
Participating with the project in OSGEO has multiple reasons, one of them being that it provides opportunities to work on synergies and work on marketing the OSGEO software stack. Now how does the intent of OSGEOs mission fit with refusing a (single) workshop on one of its projects. Maybe I miss something, but I'd assumed there was at least some kind of a relation!?
Looking forward to some good feedback and discussion on this, also on the OSGEO mailing list as I consider that discussion very relevant in the further development of outreach strategies for ourselves and the OSGEO foundation through conferences.
Core question:
"Should OSGEO projects have guaranteed workshop and presentation space for at least one session?"
Regards,
Jeroen
On Mar 28, 2007, at 5:58 PM, FOSS4G 2007 wrote:
Dear Jeroen Ticheler,
We regret to inform you that we will not be able to accept your Half Day
workshop, "Using the GeoNetwork opensource Spatial Data Catalog", for the
FOSS4G 2007 program. We had a very large number of submissions this year, and
have been able to accept less than half of them
.
We hope you will consider bringing some of your ideas to the conference in the
form of a presentation. The Call for Presentations is currently open, and
there is room for 120 presentations at the conference this year
.
I'm sorry, but I don't have many other doors to open, and I cannot imagine you truly expected me to find alternative arrangements for all 22 3-hour workshops that did not make the 12. For every point ("GeoNetwork is an OSGeo project") there is a counterpoint ("MapWindow is a popular project you OSGeo guys are ignoring!").
I have enough computers for 6 labs, which translates to 12 sessions. In order to make EVEN MORE room we added the "short" format, now known as "labs", which added another 16 slots (2 tracks throughout the presentation portion of the conference). And we gave submitters the option of choosing which formats they felt they could use.
The long-format workshops had to be chosen and slotted ahead of registration because people are going to be PAYING for them, and we want them to get what they request. Perhaps next year the organizers can attempt Dan's choose-first-optimize-later approach, which has the benefit of reflecting actual demand from attendees and the drawback of higher organizational complexity.
The short format labs are not going to be scheduled until the program is made in July, and therefore subject to more potential change, should someone drop out of that list.
Paul
Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
Hi Paul,
Hard not to be frustrated if I look at the closed ranking/review process, the final list that includes non-OSGEO workshops and the fact that no consultation has taken place with workshop submitters on possible alternatives. Just the blunt email that closes the door.
Jeroen
On Mar 29, 2007, at 4:29 PM, Paul Ramsey wrote:
Jeroen,
I appreciate your frustration, and I know it is shared by many others, as only 12 of the 34 3-hour workshop submissions could be hosted. The criteria the workshop committee used in their evaluation are here:
All the committee members ranked the submissions on those criteria and the rankings were averaged. Two workshops in the top 12 that were topic duplicates were removed and the next-lowest-ranked non-duplicates were moved up. It appears that being on the committee is no guarantee of satisfaction with the final result. The average of a bunch of lists people want is a list that no one is 100% happy with.
Paul
On 28-Mar-07, at 10:36 PM, Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
Dear people,
Thank you for your information. I have to say I find that pretty frustrating and annoying knowing that GeoNetwork opensource is one of the incubator projects of OSGEO, the number of OSGEO projects is (still) limited and FOSS4G is the OSGEO conference.
Participating with the project in OSGEO has multiple reasons, one of them being that it provides opportunities to work on synergies and work on marketing the OSGEO software stack. Now how does the intent of OSGEOs mission fit with refusing a (single) workshop on one of its projects. Maybe I miss something, but I'd assumed there was at least some kind of a relation!?
Looking forward to some good feedback and discussion on this, also on the OSGEO mailing list as I consider that discussion very relevant in the further development of outreach strategies for ourselves and the OSGEO foundation through conferences.
Core question:
"Should OSGEO projects have guaranteed workshop and presentation space for at least one session?"
Regards,
Jeroen
On Mar 28, 2007, at 5:58 PM, FOSS4G 2007 wrote:
Dear Jeroen Ticheler,
We regret to inform you that we will not be able to accept your Half Day
workshop, "Using the GeoNetwork opensource Spatial Data Catalog", for the
FOSS4G 2007 program. We had a very large number of submissions this year, and
have been able to accept less than half of them
.
We hope you will consider bringing some of your ideas to the conference in the
form of a presentation. The Call for Presentations is currently open, and
there is room for 120 presentations at the conference this year
.
Thank you for your information. I have to say I find that pretty frustrating and annoying knowing that GeoNetwork opensource is one of the incubator projects of OSGEO, the number of OSGEO projects is (still) limited and FOSS4G is the OSGEO conference.
Participating with the project in OSGEO has multiple reasons, one of them being that it provides opportunities to work on synergies and work on marketing the OSGEO software stack. Now how does the intent of OSGEOs mission fit with refusing a (single) workshop on one of its projects. Maybe I miss something, but I'd assumed there was at least some kind of a relation!?
There are some other nuances to the argument that have been somewhat buried. During the past debate about what to name the conference (FOSS4G vs OSGeo Conference), there was very strong interest in keeping the conference much broader than only OSGeo projects - hence the re-use of the FOSS4G name, to show it was not just OSGeo. Had the committee chosen to give OSGeo projects a priority, then many of the folks from the historic FOSS4G (and other) conferences would have felt usurped. Now if it was not called FOSS4G perhaps that constraint would be less of a concern.
Also, if a majority of workshops ended up being for OSGeo projects, then this would really only be an "outward facing" event - marketing outside of our known group of users/members. By having other projects represented in workshops, it provides our community opportunities to learn about other projects outside the normal fold.
That said, with my marketing hat on, I'd love to see all OSGeo projects get a priority in workshop submissions. How would this look from year to year? Does it just become same old projects doing same old presentations year after year? Or would we only give newly joined projects from the last year the opportunity to showcase in a workshop? Better yet, how about projects that have recently graduated from incubation! Then there is some more incentive to get through it. Now I think we're on to something....
If you make it two hour workshops you can have 18 instead of 12.
2 hours is more than enough IMHO.
Best regards,
Bart
Paul Ramsey schreef:
Jeroen,
I appreciate your frustration, and I know it is shared by many others, as only 12 of the 34 3-hour workshop submissions could be hosted. The criteria the workshop committee used in their evaluation are here:
All the committee members ranked the submissions on those criteria and the rankings were averaged. Two workshops in the top 12 that were topic duplicates were removed and the next-lowest-ranked non-duplicates were moved up. It appears that being on the committee is no guarantee of satisfaction with the final result. The average of a bunch of lists people want is a list that no one is 100% happy with.
Paul
On 28-Mar-07, at 10:36 PM, Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
Dear people,
Thank you for your information. I have to say I find that pretty frustrating and annoying knowing that GeoNetwork opensource is one of the incubator projects of OSGEO, the number of OSGEO projects is (still) limited and FOSS4G is the OSGEO conference.
Participating with the project in OSGEO has multiple reasons, one of them being that it provides opportunities to work on synergies and work on marketing the OSGEO software stack. Now how does the intent of OSGEOs mission fit with refusing a (single) workshop on one of its projects. Maybe I miss something, but I'd assumed there was at least some kind of a relation!?
Looking forward to some good feedback and discussion on this, also on the OSGEO mailing list as I consider that discussion very relevant in the further development of outreach strategies for ourselves and the OSGEO foundation through conferences.
Core question:
"Should OSGEO projects have guaranteed workshop and presentation space for at least one session?"
Regards,
Jeroen
On Mar 28, 2007, at 5:58 PM, FOSS4G 2007 wrote:
Dear Jeroen Ticheler,
We regret to inform you that we will not be able to accept your Half Day
workshop, "Using the GeoNetwork opensource Spatial Data Catalog", for the
FOSS4G 2007 program. We had a very large number of submissions this year, and
have been able to accept less than half of them
.
We hope you will consider bringing some of your ideas to the conference in the
form of a presentation. The Call for Presentations is currently open, and
there is room for 120 presentations at the conference this year
.
On Thu, March 29, 2007 07:36, Jeroen Ticheler wrote:
Dear people,
Thank you for your information. I have to say I find that pretty
frustrating and annoying knowing that GeoNetwork opensource is one of
the incubator projects of OSGEO, the number of OSGEO projects is
(still) limited and FOSS4G is the OSGEO conference.
Participating with the project in OSGEO has multiple reasons, one of
them being that it provides opportunities to work on synergies and
work on marketing the OSGEO software stack. Now how does the intent
of OSGEOs mission fit with refusing a (single) workshop on one of its
projects. Maybe I miss something, but I'd assumed there was at least
some kind of a relation!?
Looking forward to some good feedback and discussion on this, also on
the OSGEO mailing list as I consider that discussion very relevant in
the further development of outreach strategies for ourselves and the
OSGEO foundation through conferences.
Core question:
"Should OSGEO projects have guaranteed workshop and presentation
space for at least one session?"
Regards,
Jeroen
Hey Paul,
without wanting to break your planning, would it be possible to cut the
Mapbender Workshop slot and share it with GeoNetwork (if they are happy
with 1.5 hs)? I would be pleased to shorten our part a bit to make some
space as I think that metadata actually is a highly important bit. So far
I do not see anything else on metadata.
I don't want to start shuffling and all but yes, I feel some arguments are
right.
Regards,
On Mar 28, 2007, at 5:58 PM, FOSS4G 2007 wrote:
Dear Jeroen Ticheler,
We regret to inform you that we will not be able to accept your
Half Day
workshop, "Using the GeoNetwork opensource Spatial Data Catalog",
for the
FOSS4G 2007 program. We had a very large number of submissions
this year, and
have been able to accept less than half of them
.
We hope you will consider bringing some of your ideas to the
conference in the
form of a presentation. The Call for Presentations is currently
open, and
there is room for 120 presentations at the conference this year
.
Hey Paul,
without wanting to break your planning, would it be possible to cut the
Mapbender Workshop slot and share it with GeoNetwork (if they are happy
with 1.5 hs)?
The Mapbender workshop is a better fit with the GeoTools codewise introduction to GIS. If we include .net examples we still tell a consistent story as a workshop and we manage to have a something for both Java and .net developers.
I am talking to Daniel now to see if this is actually a good idea.
GeoNetwork is however in a class of its own (the only catalog / Metadata component to submit a workshop proposal).
I would be pleased to shorten our part a bit to make some
space as I think that metadata actually is a highly important bit. So far
I do not see anything else on metadata.
I don't want to start shuffling and all but yes, I feel some arguments are
right.
Regards,
Cheers, and thanks for thinking of others Arnulf even if all we can do is learn for next time.