[Geoserver-devel] Default logging profiles are not longer customizable

Hi all,
I’m bringing a discussion started in https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOS-10700 here on list, because I believe it needs a wider audience.

In summary, it’s no longer possible to customize the logging profiles that ship with GeoServer (e…g, PRODUCTION_LOGGING.xml, as found in a vanilla GeoServer installation) because GeoServer would overwrite them on startup with the classpath version.

The “intended” way would be to create a customized profile, “MY_PRODUCTION_LOGGING”, that would sit alongside the one provided by GeoServer.

Jody says it’s a feature… I see it as surprising, and verbose configuration wise (why should one keep logging profiles they don’t care to use as-is, and put another alongside with the same intended purpose?).

Can we please restore the old behavior? If the admin customizes a built-in profile in XML form, it just stays that way. GeoServer should fill back in the logging profiles only if they have been deleted…

Cheers
Andrea

···

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Overwriting an existing file seems wrong to me. I for one would be surprised if it happened to me.

Ian

On Fri, 7 Oct 2022, 18:20 Andrea Aime, <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I’m bringing a discussion started in https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOS-10700 here on list, because I believe it needs a wider audience.

In summary, it’s no longer possible to customize the logging profiles that ship with GeoServer (e…g, PRODUCTION_LOGGING.xml, as found in a vanilla GeoServer installation) because GeoServer would overwrite them on startup with the classpath version.

The “intended” way would be to create a customized profile, “MY_PRODUCTION_LOGGING”, that would sit alongside the one provided by GeoServer.

Jody says it’s a feature… I see it as surprising, and verbose configuration wise (why should one keep logging profiles they don’t care to use as-is, and put another alongside with the same intended purpose?).

Can we please restore the old behavior? If the admin customizes a built-in profile in XML form, it just stays that way. GeoServer should fill back in the logging profiles only if they have been deleted…

Cheers
Andrea

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phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

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Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail


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I think I understand the point of Jody. If the definition of the level of logging stays the same, you know you can have a given information by asking a customer or a user to set the logging to level YYY.

If the definition has been changed, you won’t have the information to help him or her.

To me it should be possible to define several custom logging levels. For the default one, the only thing that should be allowed to be changed should be the location of the file or a rolling policy but not the content of the log.

Alexandre

Le ven. 7 oct. 2022 à 19:58, Ian Turton <ijturton@anonymised.com> a écrit :

Overwriting an existing file seems wrong to me. I for one would be surprised if it happened to me.

Ian

On Fri, 7 Oct 2022, 18:20 Andrea Aime, <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Hi all,
I’m bringing a discussion started in https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOS-10700 here on list, because I believe it needs a wider audience.

In summary, it’s no longer possible to customize the logging profiles that ship with GeoServer (e…g, PRODUCTION_LOGGING.xml, as found in a vanilla GeoServer installation) because GeoServer would overwrite them on startup with the classpath version.

The “intended” way would be to create a customized profile, “MY_PRODUCTION_LOGGING”, that would sit alongside the one provided by GeoServer.

Jody says it’s a feature… I see it as surprising, and verbose configuration wise (why should one keep logging profiles they don’t care to use as-is, and put another alongside with the same intended purpose?).

Can we please restore the old behavior? If the admin customizes a built-in profile in XML form, it just stays that way. GeoServer should fill back in the logging profiles only if they have been deleted…

Cheers
Andrea

==

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Visit http://bit.ly/gs-services-us for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions Group
phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

https://www.geosolutionsgroup.com/

http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it


Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail


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You have a good point about predictability. At the same time, it’s shocking to be able to edit a file, have it working fine for
a while, and then find out it reverted back to a previous state days/weeks/months later, when a restart happens.

The other surprising bit is the change of behavior, after so many years being able to just edit these files without surprises.

Cheers
Andrea

···

Regards,

Andrea Aime

==
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Ing. Andrea Aime
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Technical Lead

GeoSolutions Group
phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

https://www.geosolutionsgroup.com/

http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it


Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail

Sel correction: GeoServer will bulldoze the file the moment one changes the logging profile, so the edit will really never take.
Hopefully one is working with an editor still open, and smart enough to tell them “hey, the file just got modified”.

Cheers
Andrea

···

Regards,

Andrea Aime

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phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

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Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail

Another note, the code is simply checking if the text of the file is an exact copy of the one in the jars, if not, it will just overwrite it.
So there is no way to change the location of the file nor the rolling policy. Implementing it would be possible but not trivial.

Cheers
Andrea

···

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!

Visit http://bit.ly/gs-services-us for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions Group
phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

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Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail

That’s why I used “should”!

Le sam. 8 oct. 2022 à 16:35, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> a écrit :

On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 9:20 PM Alexandre Gacon <alexandre.gacon@anonymised.com> wrote:

To me it should be possible to define several custom logging levels. For the default one, the only thing that should be allowed to be changed should be the location of the file or a rolling policy but not the content of the log.

Another note, the code is simply checking if the text of the file is an exact copy of the one in the jars, if not, it will just overwrite it.
So there is no way to change the location of the file nor the rolling policy. Implementing it would be possible but not trivial.

Cheers
Andrea

==

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phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

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Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail

Jody here with some notes for the discussion:

  1. The documentation refers to these as built-in logging configurations. I think it is good that the built-in logging configurations are available for use as an example (rather than just hidden in a jar).

https://docs.geoserver.org/main/en/user/configuration/logging.html

  1. The documentation on customization (above) has an example that starts with copying a built-in configuration and making changes.

  2. The blog post has some more details on updating from properties → xml; but also updating about the built-in xml definitions updating each release. Reading the blog post it just has an example using properties and not an xml file.

If you made any customizations to the built-in profiles, you can recover your changes from backup bak file. You can use this backup as a reference when creating a new xml logging profile, or restore this under a different name which does not conflict with the built-in logging profiles.

  1. I do expect these logging configuration to change over time, see bug https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOS-10701 for an example. As such it is nice to treat these as built-in and managed as part of the software.

aside: Initially I tried writing some code that checked if the built-in files had been customized; and only update ones that had not had their checksum change. PR review guidance was to simplify the code. Perhaps reviewers were thinking it was only applying with updating from properties → xml and not an ongoing policy.

···


Jody Garnett

Jody here with some notes for the discussion:

Most of the notes here are diverging from the point at hand, and present no novelty. I’m going to use a GeoServer 2.20.0 release I have locally to show
the behavior previous to the one incompatible change pointed out at the beginning of this thread.

  1. The documentation refers to these as built-in logging configurations. I think it is good that the built-in logging configurations are available for use as an example (rather than just hidden in a jar).

https://docs.geoserver.org/main/en/user/configuration/logging.html

Using 2.20.0, I have removed all the configuration logging files (*.pèroperties), restarted GeoServer, they are all back in the directory.
They have always served as example, never been hidden in a jar file.

  1. The documentation on customization (above) has an example that starts with copying a built-in configuration and making changes.

The ability to configure a custom profile is not new, I have been creating them for ages. Here is the 2.20.x documentation, showing
how to customize a logging profile using property files:
https://docs.geoserver.org/2.20.x/en/user/configuration/logging.html#custom-logging-profiles

  1. The blog post has some more details on updating from properties → xml; but also updating about the built-in xml definitions updating each release. Reading the blog post it just has an example using properties and not an xml file.

Communication is good, thank you for doing that. However, not relevant to the point at hand, let me copy and paste the title of this thread:
“Default logging profiles are no longer customizable” .

For reference, I edited the 2.20.x DEFAULT_LOGGING.properties to a date format more similar to a ISO date,
started GeoServer, pattern holds, stop and restart, still there.
As said above, if one wants to recover the built-in tiles, they just have to remove them, and GeoServer 2.20.x would
expand them back from the classpath.

This is the behavior everyone has been used to, for at least the past 15 years.

If you made any customizations to the built-in profiles, you can recover your changes from backup bak file. You can use this backup as a reference when creating a new xml logging profile, or restore this under a different name which does not conflict with the built-in logging profiles.

That has been your own decision, taken without discussing it in a GSIP or mentioning it during mail discussion. This is the real point of this thread.
Change is possible, but it requires public discussion, not single handled bulldozing because you think you know better.
If and when the PSC agrees the direction is good, then we communicate to users that the behavior they were used to, it’s no longer there.

  1. I do expect these logging configuration to change over time, see bug https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOS-10701 for an example. As such it is nice to treat these as built-in and managed as part of the software.

I expect to own the files just like any other file in the data directory. I has been like that for as long as I can remember.
It was not your place to make this decision, you are putting yourself above us all, and the rules/customs that govern this community.

To draw a parallel, can you remove the built-in styles? Not really, GeoServer will try to re-create them, because it needs them to work.
Can you edit them? Yes you can, I do it all the time (it’s my own responsibility to keep them semantically in line with their intended usage,
and if not, I’ll pay the price at every new layer configured).

That same goes for the built-in logging profiles, I edit them if I want to get information presented in a different way… e.g., when I’m trying
to debug a concurrency issue at a customer site, I have them add the thread id in the log pattern. That does not change the semantics
of a “DEFAULT_LOGGING”, it’s just giving me better information. Unfortunately most of our customers are still on older versions of
GeoServer and had not noticed the issue until a few days ago.

aside: Initially I tried writing some code that checked if the built-in files had been customized; and only update ones that had not had their checksum change. PR review guidance was to simplify the code. Perhaps reviewers were thinking it was only applying with updating from properties → xml and not an ongoing policy.

Indeed, I could not have expected a PSC member to just go and change the behavior like this. The notion that you’re talking about this
as a precise decision you made, instead of a simple oversight, is even more shocking.

Let me quote a bit of our GSIP process: “Generally you will make a GSIP when you want something major done in GeoServer and need feedback from others. GSIPs are needed for things that will have an impact on other community members, and thus should be talked about.”

Lately you have been waving the “would you like to write a GSIP?” for minor new features, but then
sneak into a large PR a change that does impact on other community members, without discussion.
I believe we need a new GSIP that clarifies, with enumeration and examples, what warrants a GSIP, and
what does not.

···

Regards,

Andrea Aime

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Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail

Andrea

I am really not attached to either behaviour, if you would like to change it so the built-in profiles are not overwritten like before that is fine.

You wanted to bring this to the email list for discussion and we are.

Jody

···


Jody Garnett

Ok, I’ll call this progress.

Yet, as stated before, we can discuss, but deciding on this kind of behavioral changes is in the hands of the PSC, no single developer should move ahead on their own.
So I would invite Alessio, Jukka, Kevin, Nuno, Simone and Torben to also share their opinion on the matter (me, Jody and Ian have spoken already).

Cheers
Andrea

···

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fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

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Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail

Good morning,
having the logging configuration overridden after an edition, in practice not being able to customize the default login profiles, was both a puzzling and an unpleasant surprise for me.

Although I understand the rationale behind this change, creating predictability, this affects a functional behavior that’s been there for years.
Such a significant change should have been highlighted and voted through the PSC, hence +1 in favor of reverting this change.

I will vote -1 on this change, if I edit a configuration in GeoServer (through the UI or in the data directory when no UI is available) I don’t want the system to automatically and silently override it unless it is strictly necessary, for example during a migration where this is inevitable.
That say, I have nothing against adding an option (checkbox) to the global info that would block the customization of the default logging profiles, but this is something that would need to be explicitly activated by the administrator.

Kind regards,
Nuno Oliveira

···

Regards,

Nuno Oliveira

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Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

Regardless of intent or nominal best-practice, it seems like this is a pretty significant regression for some users of GeoServer. As such, I am in favor of reverting the change.

I could see retaining the functionality to overwrite these files if they change as an optional configuration, but not as the default.

Cheers,
Torben

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 2:00 AM Nuno Oliveira <nuno.oliveira@anonymised.com> wrote:

Good morning,
having the logging configuration overridden after an edition, in practice not being able to customize the default login profiles, was both a puzzling and an unpleasant surprise for me.

Although I understand the rationale behind this change, creating predictability, this affects a functional behavior that’s been there for years.
Such a significant change should have been highlighted and voted through the PSC, hence +1 in favor of reverting this change.

I will vote -1 on this change, if I edit a configuration in GeoServer (through the UI or in the data directory when no UI is available) I don’t want the system to automatically and silently override it unless it is strictly necessary, for example during a migration where this is inevitable.
That say, I have nothing against adding an option (checkbox) to the global info that would block the customization of the default logging profiles, but this is something that would need to be explicitly activated by the administrator.

Kind regards,
Nuno Oliveira

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 11:12 PM Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@anonymised.com> wrote:

Andrea

I am really not attached to either behaviour, if you would like to change it so the built-in profiles are not overwritten like before that is fine.

Ok, I’ll call this progress.

Yet, as stated before, we can discuss, but deciding on this kind of behavioral changes is in the hands of the PSC, no single developer should move ahead on their own.
So I would invite Alessio, Jukka, Kevin, Nuno, Simone and Torben to also share their opinion on the matter (me, Jody and Ian have spoken already).

Cheers
Andrea

==

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Ing. Andrea Aime
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phone: +39 0584 962313

fax: +39 0584 1660272

mob: +39 339 8844549

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Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia.

This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.

I am sorry if my initial response to the issue appeared dismissive; I was just trying to indicate that this change was on purpose.

Please keep in mind that this is new code for log4j and there is no commit to easily “revert” as mentioned in this thread …

I created a draft PR which I think highlights where the change is needed https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/pull/6234

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Jody Garnett