Hi Everyone,
I thought I would move this discussion to the development list as well.
I think this one may be more of note to self for Ian Turton as this is likely a much bigger change than I would be looking to undertake during my learning period.
The comment raised was:
For many layers it is useful to be able to see the layer over a base layer, especially when designing a new style. It would be nice if a user could specify a base layer in the previews without hand editing the browser URL.
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Paul Wittle via Geoserver-devel <
geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
I did note that you can achieve it using the reflector and Ian noted that
it can actually be achieved using the normal layer preview as well however
some of the other functionality of the page is impacted if you render two
layers in the preview. This may not be the case if the base layer was
actually a base layer type in the OpenLayers map. The simplest method could
actually just be to add OSM as the default base map as an option but we
could just make it fully controlled by a configuration option anyway.
I think it would be nice to have a set of options, but there is a catch...
most options are in 3857, and most data is in something
else, so a reprojection would be needed.
This is a "no go" imho for the normal layer preview, as it is not uncommon
to have data with mis-setup CRS (invalid in the data, or
mis-guessed), if not "EPSG:404000" (no CRS).
In those cases no seeing anything on map would case confusion, as there are
multiple reasons for that to happen.
It would also require a redesign of the preview page and break the SRS/CRS
parameter support (the preview is itself a GetMap request).
However, at least for the style editor preview... why not? The layer
preview would stay there for the simple data verification with no
magic in between, while the view in the editor is indeed meant for
verification of the style being edited.
Cheers
Andrea
Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549
http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
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The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
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(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
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Hi Andrea,
That sounds reasonable enough to me, as I said I’m looking for simple tasks I can work on so perhaps I could just take a look at the style editor as you say?
Once added I wonder if the various previews need more reference to each other as it seems from the discussion that each preview has a specific function yet speaking as more of an end user at this point I would say many users would expect all of the functions to be described as Layer Preview. There is no reference on that page to the style editor preview or to the tile layers preview and so for me the purpose of the page is perhaps a little misleading to someone that is not as close to the development of the application.
To give an example, if I were setting up a layer I would definitely make use of the style editor preview however if I was not using GeoServer much and have only logged on because of an end user complaining about a layer which is not drawing correctly I know for a fact they always go to the Layer Preview link. I’ve watched my colleagues do it and I’ve done it myself. That usually works but not if the layer has a maximum scale at which it renders as discussed.
In the case of the tile preview, the current link states Tile Layers so it doesn’t necessarily draw users to it in the same way as Layer Preview; perhaps it should be called Tile Preview?
As always please feel free to disagree but I’m definitely happy to take a look at the style editor if that is the preferred option.
Cheers,
Paul
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Paul Wittle via Geoserver-devel <geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
I did note that you can achieve it using the reflector and Ian noted that it can actually be achieved using the normal layer preview as well however some of the other functionality of the page is impacted if you render two layers in the preview. This may not be the case if the base layer was actually a base layer type in the OpenLayers map. The simplest method could actually just be to add OSM as the default base map as an option but we could just make it fully controlled by a configuration option anyway.
I think it would be nice to have a set of options, but there is a catch… most options are in 3857, and most data is in something
else, so a reprojection would be needed.
This is a “no go” imho for the normal layer preview, as it is not uncommon to have data with mis-setup CRS (invalid in the data, or
mis-guessed), if not “EPSG:404000” (no CRS).
In those cases no seeing anything on map would case confusion, as there are multiple reasons for that to happen.
It would also require a redesign of the preview page and break the SRS/CRS parameter support (the preview is itself a GetMap request).
However, at least for the style editor preview… why not? The layer preview would stay there for the simple data verification with no
magic in between, while the view in the editor is indeed meant for verification of the style being edited.
Cheers
Andrea
Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549
http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.
The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Paul Wittle <P.Wittle@anonymised.com>
wrote:
Hi Andrea,
That sounds reasonable enough to me, as I said I’m looking for simple
tasks I can work on so perhaps I could just take a look at the style editor
as you say?
Working on the UI is hardly the easiest task you can pick, Wicket does not
have a gentle learning curve. But you have to start from somewhere, so that
might be a case.
Once added I wonder if the various previews need more reference to each
other as it seems from the discussion that each preview has a specific
function yet speaking as more of an end user at this point I would say many
users would expect all of the functions to be described as Layer Preview.
There is no reference on that page to the style editor preview or to the
tile layers preview and so for me the purpose of the page is perhaps a
little misleading to someone that is not as close to the development of the
application.
The preview is meant mostly for the admin to run tests while setting up
layers and as a quick way for users to have a peek at the data.
What most users would like to see is instead a full blown client where they
can look at various layers, in full page form, with a background and the
like, maybe with the ability to add remote layers, maybe with tools and so
on. There is no such a thing in GeoServer, I have been suggesting for a
while in my company to build a simple one around MapStore2, to be delivered
as a plugin, but I'm getting no traction.
To give an example, if I were setting up a layer I would definitely make
use of the style editor preview however if I was not using GeoServer much
and have only logged on because of an end user complaining about a layer
which is not drawing correctly I know for a fact they always go to the
Layer Preview link. I’ve watched my colleagues do it and I’ve done it
myself. That usually works but not if the layer has a maximum scale at
which it renders as discussed.
See above, it's a "no go" because in order to use a common background we'd
need reprojection in the mix
In the case of the tile preview, the current link states Tile Layers so it
doesn’t necessarily draw users to it in the same way as Layer Preview;
perhaps it should be called Tile Preview?
The "Tile layers" page is not visible to common users, only to admins.
Please read carefully my answer on the other thread and let's talk about
tiled
preview there please (one thread, one topic).
--
Regards,
Andrea Aime
Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549
http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il
loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio,
per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo
messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di
darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio
stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso,
divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od
utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.
The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
information in this message that has been received in error. The sender
does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes
made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of
e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.
Hi,
I think that summarises it well but just for clarity when I say end user I am referring to admin users rather than members of the general public; we don’t advertise the GeoServer administration pages for our deployment. I’m primarily suggesting that even some admin users would not necessarily understand the nuances of the different previews if it was not explained to them. That said, GeoServer is an international project so I probably wouldn’t expect them to.
I note your point regarding the Wicket learning curve; how long can a ticket remain open?
If we change the scope of this ticket to be adding the base map to the style editor and assign it to me (if that is what you do with tickets) then I’m happy to look at it but as you say it might be a while. If that is problematic then we could simply close the ticket and open a new one when I’m ready to actually make the specific pull request for the change.
Final point noted, I will reply there.
Cheers,
Paul
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Paul Wittle <P.Wittle@…4807…> wrote:
Hi Andrea,
That sounds reasonable enough to me, as I said I’m looking for simple tasks I can work on so perhaps I could just take a look at the style editor as you say?
Working on the UI is hardly the easiest task you can pick, Wicket does not have a gentle learning curve. But you have to start from somewhere, so that might be a case.
Once added I wonder if the various previews need more reference to each other as it seems from the discussion that each preview has a specific function yet speaking as more of an end user at this point I would say many users would expect all of the functions to be described as Layer Preview. There is no reference on that page to the style editor preview or to the tile layers preview and so for me the purpose of the page is perhaps a little misleading to someone that is not as close to the development of the application.
The preview is meant mostly for the admin to run tests while setting up layers and as a quick way for users to have a peek at the data.
What most users would like to see is instead a full blown client where they can look at various layers, in full page form, with a background and the like, maybe with the ability to add remote layers, maybe with tools and so on. There is no such a thing in GeoServer, I have been suggesting for a while in my company to build a simple one around MapStore2, to be delivered as a plugin, but I’m getting no traction.
To give an example, if I were setting up a layer I would definitely make use of the style editor preview however if I was not using GeoServer much and have only logged on because of an end user complaining about a layer which is not drawing correctly I know for a fact they always go to the Layer Preview link. I’ve watched my colleagues do it and I’ve done it myself. That usually works but not if the layer has a maximum scale at which it renders as discussed.
See above, it’s a “no go” because in order to use a common background we’d need reprojection in the mix
In the case of the tile preview, the current link states Tile Layers so it doesn’t necessarily draw users to it in the same way as Layer Preview; perhaps it should be called Tile Preview?
The “Tile layers” page is not visible to common users, only to admins. Please read carefully my answer on the other thread and let’s talk about tiled
preview there please (one thread, one topic).
–
Regards,
Andrea Aime
Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549
http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.
The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Paul Wittle <P.Wittle@anonymised.com>
wrote:
Hi,
I think that summarises it well but just for clarity when I say end user I
am referring to admin users rather than members of the general public; we
don’t advertise the GeoServer administration pages for our deployment. I’m
primarily suggesting that even some admin users would not necessarily
understand the nuances of the different previews if it was not explained to
them. That said, GeoServer is an international project so I probably
wouldn’t expect them to.
Hum... I see. I would not mind much renaming "tiled layers" into "tiled
preview" but there are thing in that page like disk quota, seeding and
clean links that are not previews.
However you have a point, I seldomly use that page myself, keep on
forgetting that is there, mostly because if I want to configure tile
caching I go to the layer and then switch to the tile caching tab... so
yeah, that page is indeed problematic from that point of view.
Maybe it's also the location of the page in the menu, one edits
layers/styles first, and the "tile layers" link is a few sections down.
Wondering if moving "tile caching" up, right below "Data" in the menu,
may help some with that.
And maybe also splitting the tile preview, which would be visible to all,
and have a tile layers page that has the remaining things (disk quota,
seed, clear), which is visible only to admins.
I note your point regarding the Wicket learning curve; how long can a
ticket remain open?
Given the recent discussion, a improvement/new feature ticket will stay
open one year before being closed. A bug report one does not get closed
instead.
(the cleanup of old feature requests is yet to be done, mind)
If we change the scope of this ticket to be adding the base map to the
style editor and assign it to me (if that is what you do with tickets) then
I’m happy to look at it but as you say it might be a while. If that is
problematic then we could simply close the ticket and open a new one when
I’m ready to actually make the specific pull request for the change.
No problems. Assigning tickets is something we do when someone starts
working on them, otherwise users can get the false impression that the
ticket is being
taken care of, while it is not (sometimes people assign the ticket and then
stop working and forget to un-assign, but you should see that most of the
tickets
are in unassigned state)
Final point noted, I will reply there.
Thank you! 
Cheers
Andrea
--
Regards,
Andrea Aime
Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549
http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il
loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio,
per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo
messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di
darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio
stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso,
divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od
utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.
The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
information in this message that has been received in error. The sender
does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes
made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of
e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.
Aaand… I ended up talking about tiled layers in the wrong thread… oh well!!!
Cheers
Andrea
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:
–
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Paul Wittle <P.Wittle@anonymised.com> wrote:
Hi,
I think that summarises it well but just for clarity when I say end user I am referring to admin users rather than members of the general public; we don’t advertise the GeoServer administration pages for our deployment. I’m primarily suggesting that even some admin users would not necessarily understand the nuances of the different previews if it was not explained to them. That said, GeoServer is an international project so I probably wouldn’t expect them to.
Hum… I see. I would not mind much renaming “tiled layers” into “tiled preview” but there are thing in that page like disk quota, seeding and clean links that are not previews.
However you have a point, I seldomly use that page myself, keep on forgetting that is there, mostly because if I want to configure tile caching I go to the layer and then switch to the tile caching tab… so yeah, that page is indeed problematic from that point of view.
Maybe it’s also the location of the page in the menu, one edits layers/styles first, and the “tile layers” link is a few sections down. Wondering if moving “tile caching” up, right below “Data” in the menu,
may help some with that.
And maybe also splitting the tile preview, which would be visible to all, and have a tile layers page that has the remaining things (disk quota, seed, clear), which is visible only to admins.
I note your point regarding the Wicket learning curve; how long can a ticket remain open?
Given the recent discussion, a improvement/new feature ticket will stay open one year before being closed. A bug report one does not get closed instead.
(the cleanup of old feature requests is yet to be done, mind)
If we change the scope of this ticket to be adding the base map to the style editor and assign it to me (if that is what you do with tickets) then I’m happy to look at it but as you say it might be a while. If that is problematic then we could simply close the ticket and open a new one when I’m ready to actually make the specific pull request for the change.
No problems. Assigning tickets is something we do when someone starts working on them, otherwise users can get the false impression that the ticket is being
taken care of, while it is not (sometimes people assign the ticket and then stop working and forget to un-assign, but you should see that most of the tickets
are in unassigned state)
Final point noted, I will reply there.
Thank you!
Cheers
Andrea
–
Regards,
Andrea Aime
Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549
http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.
The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.
Regards,
Andrea Aime
Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549
http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.
The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.