[Geoserver-devel] GSIP 11 online, data dir handling

Hi all,
following up the data dir handling issues me, Brent
and Justin had a quick chat and I think we have a
compelling proposal, which has been distilled in:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GSIP+11+-+Data+configuration+handling

Hopefully we'll be able to vote it during the next
Geoserver meeting.
Feedback welcomed here, on the ml.

Cheers
Andrea

Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:

I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:

svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
       + trunk
       + branches
       + tags
       + config
           + release
           + minimal
           ...

-Justin

Andrea Aime wrote:

Hi all,
following up the data dir handling issues me, Brent
and Justin had a quick chat and I think we have a
compelling proposal, which has been distilled in:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GSIP+11+-+Data+configuration+handling

Hopefully we'll be able to vote it during the next
Geoserver meeting.
Feedback welcomed here, on the ml.

Cheers
Andrea

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Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:

I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:

svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
      + trunk
      + branches
      + tags
      + config
          + release
          + minimal
          ...

Nicer for us, for sure. Tempting. :slight_smile:
As a developer in South Africa, how would you checkout geoserver
without checking out the config directory? By checking out each
module one by one?

Cheers
Andrea

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:

I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:

svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
       + trunk
       + branches
       + tags
       + config
           + release
           + minimal

Ah sorry, I misread your mail (it's getting late here...)
How would you handle branches this way?
The config is something that's related to the geoserver
version you're playing with.
For example, config dirs for 1.5.x are incompatible with 1.4.x
and the opposite is (sadly) true as well (GEoserver is not
happy that there are no wcs elements in the services.xml
afaik).

Cheers
Andrea

Andrea Aime wrote:

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:

I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:

svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
       + trunk
       + branches
       + tags
       + config
           + release
           + minimal

Ah sorry, I misread your mail (it's getting late here...)
How would you handle branches this way?
The config is something that's related to the geoserver
version you're playing with.
For example, config dirs for 1.5.x are incompatible with 1.4.x
and the opposite is (sadly) true as well (GEoserver is not
happy that there are no wcs elements in the services.xml
afaik).

That's bad. Is there any way we can get that to work?

Cheers
Andrea

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...
Andrea Aime wrote:

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:
  

Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:

I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:

svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
       + trunk
       + branches
       + tags
       + config
           + release
           + minimal
    
Ah sorry, I misread your mail (it's getting late here...)
How would you handle branches this way?
The config is something that's related to the geoserver
version you're playing with.
For example, config dirs for 1.5.x are incompatible with 1.4.x
and the opposite is (sadly) true as well (GEoserver is not
happy that there are no wcs elements in the services.xml
afaik).
  

correct. If I use a 1.4 data directory then a 1.5 version of GeoServer will die. We should probably fix this actually, or throw an appropriate error that says something along the lines of "It looks like you are using an older data directory, you should use one appropriate for this version."
Although I think we have to maintain some sort of backwards compatibility, as this is why we have the data directory: so people can just point a new version at their old data directory. hmm, I will file a bug report.

Cheers
Andrea

Brent Owens
(The Open Planning Project)

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Chris Holmes ha scritto:

Andrea Aime wrote:

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:

I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:

svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
       + trunk
       + branches
       + tags
       + config
           + release
           + minimal

Ah sorry, I misread your mail (it's getting late here...)
How would you handle branches this way?
The config is something that's related to the geoserver
version you're playing with.
For example, config dirs for 1.5.x are incompatible with 1.4.x
and the opposite is (sadly) true as well (GEoserver is not
happy that there are no wcs elements in the services.xml
afaik).

That's bad. Is there any way we can get that to work?

Don't know at the moment, it all boils do to have the config
system handle optional elements and provide defaults.
Opened http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GEOS-877 to handle this.
Cheers
Andrea

PS: I should have opened this before... too many things going on,
     I do loose bits here and there :slight_smile:

Thinking ... you guys are moving too quickly for me these days. I think I need to spend some time with before and after architecture pictures (I hate design discussion in the small with consequenes in the large).

So let me define the large:
- how do I run with no data directory
- how do I cluster the resulting GeoServer

Jody

Hi all,
following up the data dir handling issues me, Brent
and Justin had a quick chat and I think we have a
compelling proposal, which has been distilled in:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GSIP+11+-+Data+configuration+handling

Hopefully we'll be able to vote it during the next
Geoserver meeting.
Feedback welcomed here, on the ml.

Cheers
Andrea

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Of course now that I read the page I find we are talking about svn and our build process. This is not really a subject for a GSIP; let's fix build problems as they arrise and leave GSIP for decisions with strategic consequences for GeoServer as a product / project.

Cheers,
Jody

Hi all,
following up the data dir handling issues me, Brent
and Justin had a quick chat and I think we have a
compelling proposal, which has been distilled in:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GSIP+11+-+Data+configuration+handling

Hopefully we'll be able to vote it during the next
Geoserver meeting.
Feedback welcomed here, on the ml.

Cheers
Andrea

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Hmm, fair enough. I guess I thought that config directories would be something that cut across geoserver versions and branches. In that case I would prefer either of the following

1.

  svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
         + trunk
         + branches
         + tags
         + config
    + trunk
      + branches
      + tags

Or

2.

  svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
         + trunk
            + geoserver
            + config
         + branches
         + tags
         + config

I guess #2 is more or less the original proposal.

-Justin

Andrea Aime wrote:

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:

I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:

svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
       + trunk
       + branches
       + tags
       + config
           + release
           + minimal

Ah sorry, I misread your mail (it's getting late here...)
How would you handle branches this way?
The config is something that's related to the geoserver
version you're playing with.
For example, config dirs for 1.5.x are incompatible with 1.4.x
and the opposite is (sadly) true as well (GEoserver is not
happy that there are no wcs elements in the services.xml
afaik).

Cheers
Andrea

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jdeolive@anonymised.com
The Open Planning Project
http://topp.openplans.org

Jody Garnett ha scritto:

Of course now that I read the page I find we are talking about svn and our build process. This is not really a subject for a GSIP;

Well, me, Justin and Brent were of a different advice.
This is strategic from the pov of developing, and since it requires
a svn reorganization, it's critical as well.

Different point of views I guess :slight_smile:
Cheers
Andrea

GSIP 11 actually is kind of orthogonal to those two questions. It's more about fixing a bit of a mess with how we store data dirs, and getting that in line with how data dirs originally were.

Running with no data dir is definitely a problem, but one that should be solved independently of this. Clustering is definitely a 'next' type question, and the baseline should be fixed first...

Jody Garnett wrote:

Thinking ... you guys are moving too quickly for me these days. I think I need to spend some time with before and after architecture pictures (I hate design discussion in the small with consequenes in the large).

So let me define the large:
- how do I run with no data directory
- how do I cluster the resulting GeoServer

Jody

Hi all,
following up the data dir handling issues me, Brent
and Justin had a quick chat and I think we have a
compelling proposal, which has been distilled in:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GSIP+11+-+Data+configuration+handling

Hopefully we'll be able to vote it during the next
Geoserver meeting.
Feedback welcomed here, on the ml.

Cheers
Andrea

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+1 for #2

Brent Owens
(The Open Planning Project)

Justin Deoliveira wrote:

Hmm, fair enough. I guess I thought that config directories would be something that cut across geoserver versions and branches. In that case I would prefer either of the following

1.

  svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
         + trunk
         + branches
         + tags
         + config
    + trunk
      + branches
      + tags

Or

2.

  svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
         + trunk
            + geoserver
            + config
         + branches
         + tags
         + config

I guess #2 is more or less the original proposal.

-Justin

Andrea Aime wrote:
  

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:
    

Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:

I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:

svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
       + trunk
       + branches
       + tags
       + config
           + release
           + minimal
      

Ah sorry, I misread your mail (it's getting late here...)
How would you handle branches this way?
The config is something that's related to the geoserver
version you're playing with.
For example, config dirs for 1.5.x are incompatible with 1.4.x
and the opposite is (sadly) true as well (GEoserver is not
happy that there are no wcs elements in the services.xml
afaik).

Cheers
Andrea

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yup, #2 looks better

Gabriel
On Thursday 25 January 2007 20:29, Brent Owens wrote:

+1 for #2

Brent Owens
(The Open Planning Project)

Justin Deoliveira wrote:
> Hmm, fair enough. I guess I thought that config directories would be
> something that cut across geoserver versions and branches. In that case
> I would prefer either of the following
>
> 1.
>
> svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
> + trunk
> + branches
> + tags
> + config
> + trunk
> + branches
> + tags
>
> Or
>
> 2.
>
> svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
> + trunk
> + geoserver
> + config
> + branches
> + tags
> + config
>
> I guess #2 is more or less the original proposal.
>
> -Justin
>
> Andrea Aime wrote:
>> Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:
>>> Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:
>>>
>>> I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to
>>> layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under
>>> the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:
>>>
>>> svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
>>> + trunk
>>> + branches
>>> + tags
>>> + config
>>> + release
>>> + minimal
>>
>> Ah sorry, I misread your mail (it's getting late here...)
>> How would you handle branches this way?
>> The config is something that's related to the geoserver
>> version you're playing with.
>> For example, config dirs for 1.5.x are incompatible with 1.4.x
>> and the opposite is (sadly) true as well (GEoserver is not
>> happy that there are no wcs elements in the services.xml
>> afaik).
>>
>> Cheers
>> Andrea
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> cash
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I'm struggling to work out if there is any agreement on what os being voted on here...

Here's another couple or cases to consider IMHO, if someone can explain just how things will work in these cases I'm happy:

1) I have two versions of geoserver, running 50 different Feature Types. lets say the config is incompatible for 3 or these between version X and version Y - I want to load config 1 for the 47 and have version X load the 3 specific ones

2) I have two instances of geoserver (production and test) running 50 FTypes... I want to modify one FeatureType in the test version, and deploy it for a test period.

3) I have a series of configs for testing various paerts of the system, and I want to perform regression testing for each new version of geoserver I build, whilst keeping several previous versions running unchanged against one or more of these configs. (erg version X against Config A for one client, version Y agaisnt config B for another) - this seems to be the common requirement for developers delivering real systems,

distrubuting source code (sample configs) is one issue, the ability to actually manage configs (peicemeal loading) from multiple sources is another. I'm not sure what the implications are for this proposal - is some sort of default/override implied by having config in both the branch tree and the svn root?

Rob a

Chris Holmes wrote:

GSIP 11 actually is kind of orthogonal to those two questions. It's more about fixing a bit of a mess with how we store data dirs, and getting that in line with how data dirs originally were.

Running with no data dir is definitely a problem, but one that should be solved independently of this. Clustering is definitely a 'next' type question, and the baseline should be fixed first...

Jody Garnett wrote:

Thinking ... you guys are moving too quickly for me these days. I think I need to spend some time with before and after architecture pictures (I hate design discussion in the small with consequenes in the large).

So let me define the large:
- how do I run with no data directory
- how do I cluster the resulting GeoServer

Jody

Hi all,
following up the data dir handling issues me, Brent
and Justin had a quick chat and I think we have a
compelling proposal, which has been distilled in:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GSIP+11+-+Data+configuration+handling

Hopefully we'll be able to vote it during the next
Geoserver meeting.
Feedback welcomed here, on the ml.

Cheers
Andrea

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Rob Atkinson ha scritto:

I'm struggling to work out if there is any agreement on what os being voted on here...

Here's another couple or cases to consider IMHO, if someone can explain just how things will work in these cases I'm happy:

1) I have two versions of geoserver, running 50 different Feature Types. lets say the config is incompatible for 3 or these between version X and version Y - I want to load config 1 for the 47 and have version X load the 3 specific ones

2) I have two instances of geoserver (production and test) running 50 FTypes... I want to modify one FeatureType in the test version, and deploy it for a test period.

3) I have a series of configs for testing various paerts of the system, and I want to perform regression testing for each new version of geoserver I build, whilst keeping several previous versions running unchanged against one or more of these configs. (erg version X against Config A for one client, version Y agaisnt config B for another) - this seems to be the common requirement for developers delivering real systems,

distrubuting source code (sample configs) is one issue, the ability to actually manage configs (peicemeal loading) from multiple sources is another. I'm not sure what the implications are for this proposal - is some sort of default/override implied by having config in both the branch tree and the svn root?

This is just a way to fix how we manage the _development and release_
process. We are not touching in any way the config code and its
capabilities.
It's just that the current way we handle the data dirs used for
release and testing is hard to mantain.

Jody and Rob, your points are well noted and appreciated, but these
comments are good for GSIP 8 and GSIP 9. I'm going to start a thread
for each so that we can get better organised with comments.

Cheers
Andrea

Sounds like there is good agreement on this. Just a note can we give people a "get out of the pool" warning before anyone goes ahead and does this. Thanks.

-Justin

Andrea Aime wrote:

Chris Holmes ha scritto:

Andrea Aime wrote:

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

Comment attached. Will past in here for discussion:

I would like to keep the svn layout as is, as it is the standard way to layout an svn repository. Instead just create another directory under the root of the repository called "config". So repo layout looks like:

svn.codehaus.org/geoserver
       + trunk
       + branches
       + tags
       + config
           + release
           + minimal

Ah sorry, I misread your mail (it's getting late here...)
How would you handle branches this way?
The config is something that's related to the geoserver
version you're playing with.
For example, config dirs for 1.5.x are incompatible with 1.4.x
and the opposite is (sadly) true as well (GEoserver is not
happy that there are no wcs elements in the services.xml
afaik).

That's bad. Is there any way we can get that to work?

Don't know at the moment, it all boils do to have the config
system handle optional elements and provide defaults.
Opened http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GEOS-877 to handle this.
Cheers
Andrea

PS: I should have opened this before... too many things going on,
    I do loose bits here and there :slight_smile:

!DSPAM:1004,45b8ffa979462095110867!

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jdeolive@anonymised.com
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Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

Sounds like there is good agreement on this. Just a note can we give people a "get out of the pool" warning before anyone goes ahead and does this. Thanks.

Well since we had a GSIP for this, we need votes as well (the downside
of using a GSIP, as Jody warned). I prefer it like this anyways, since we're
going to change our directory tree layout.

So, so far we have positive votes from:
* aaime
* jdeolive
* bowens

We need another vote at least, and no negatives.

Cheers
Andrea

Honestly I like the zip files for configuration, but all you are right … if I need to change just a demo request which is an xml file of few bytes, I have to commit the zip file.

My only concern is, we used zip files to save space, now we are going back to a directory structure that stores the configuration directories uncopressed for every release. Personally I have no problems … so if it is good for you, go ahed.

Do you think it is too hard to preserve both ways (zip file and config dir)?

+1 for directory tree 2 proposed by Justin.

On 1/26/07, aaime <aaime@anonymised.com> wrote:

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:

Sounds like there is good agreement on this. Just a note can we give
people a “get out of the pool” warning before anyone goes ahead and does
this. Thanks.

Well since we had a GSIP for this, we need votes as well (the downside
of using a GSIP, as Jody warned). I prefer it like this anyways, since we’re
going to change our directory tree layout.

So, so far we have positive votes from:

  • aaime
  • jdeolive
  • bowens

We need another vote at least, and no negatives.

Cheers
Andrea


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Eng. Alessio Fabiani
Vice President/CTO GeoSolutions

http://www.geo-solutions.it


I should have been more clear on my previous post.
so +1 on option #2

PS: could we require a keyword on the subject when voting on a GSIP? something
like the one on this message: "vote on GSIP #NN". Would help to collect votes
or it's just that I get lost with ease.

Gabriel

On Friday 26 January 2007 09:12, aaime wrote:

Justin Deoliveira ha scritto:
> Sounds like there is good agreement on this. Just a note can we give
> people a "get out of the pool" warning before anyone goes ahead and does
> this. Thanks.

Well since we had a GSIP for this, we need votes as well (the downside
of using a GSIP, as Jody warned). I prefer it like this anyways, since
we're going to change our directory tree layout.

So, so far we have positive votes from:
* aaime
* jdeolive
* bowens

We need another vote at least, and no negatives.

Cheers
Andrea

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Gabriel Roldán (groldan@anonymised.com)
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