1) GSIP 5
2) Ingestion engine
3) Current release progress
4) Custom UI changes
5) WMS optimizations for production envoronments
-------------------------------------------------
brent_ ok well lets start
brent_ 1) GSIP 5
brent_ anyone have further comments on it?
brent_ http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOS/GSIP+5+-+Release+process
sigq Title: GSIP 5 - Release process - Confluence (at docs.codehaus.org)
aaime Me one, I have to read it 
aaime (doing so now, what a straggler I am)
brent_ =)
brent_ I will send out an email this week asking for people to give some final feedback on it, and if it all looks settled, then I will ask people to vote on it
aaime Hmm... not sure I like subpoints... we are not the jdk :-p
brent_ heh, k
aaime Stuff for conferences and the like is not official anyways...
brent_ well sometimes we have had a release go out and a problem sneaks into the release, and we have to release right away again. Usually ends up being called 1.3.xa, or 1.3.xb
aaime Right... yes, this is a good use case for immediate ones
groldan I think RC + beta is kind of redundant,
aaime but in that case they are stable
groldan we shuold adopt one or another
brent_ not many people understand that RC does mean beta though
aaime Because RC is _not_ beta
brent_ yeh one or the other, I would rather use 'beta'
aaime is the release unless a bug pops out
aaime (that's what RC usually are anyways)
brent_ I just want to see "beta" in the file name and on the download page so people know what they are getting into
aaime well, but that should be for milestones
aaime and RC is not public tested but developers should feel it's perfectly ok
aaime (release candidate)
brent_ not publically tested?
aaime Well, usually most of the people start downloading and running from RC onwards
aaime conscious administrator usually don't install xx.0 anyways, wait for xx.1
aaime so in my head RC is something that has been tested by developers and a few enthusiasts
aaime but not by the public
groldan so: alfa while new features are to be added, beta on feature freeze, while there are pending bug fixes, and RC from that on?
aaime That's the usual classification I always heard of
brent_ ok, but we still have to have it up for download, and that is public. So public will still end up getting their hands on it
aaime Understood, but there is public and public. Betas are downloaded by tens of people, RC by hundreds usually
brent_ that sounds good groldan
brent_ ok, aaime, we can put up the downloads on sourceforge and just not on geoserver.org?
brent_ (for RCs)
aaime I'd put all on geoserver.org anyways
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aaime if someones sees a "beta" or "milestone" he should know what it is
brent_ ok
aaime and avoid it for production purposes
brent_ so we still want RC's to have the tag "beta" attached to them?
aaime No!
groldan I think that besides defining the release terminology, we really need to catch up on strenghting the test coverage, as per Andrea's worries
aaime if something is "release candidate" it means developers feel it's good to be released
groldan CITE is the _minimal_ for functional testing, but...
brent_ ok
aaime only want some wider testing to see if someone can spot some other bug
aaime RC means "I give up, I can't find any more serious bugs people"
brent_ ok, sounds good
aaime (not exactly what we're doing for 1.4.0rc1 :-p)
brent_ we can though
brent_ but maybe it is good to wait until the GSIP is voted on
aaime Well, let's put it this way
brent_ groldan, I agree that we need more testing, beyond CITE
aaime jira is full of issue reports
aaime what should we do?
aaime It's not like we can think geoserver 1.4.0rc1 will be witout any serious issue I think
groldan I would like to have unit, functional, stress
groldan and fancy reports
aaime I would be happy with the first 3
groldan maybe eclipse¡s Bird is something to have in count, want to dig into it from a while now
brent_ do we eventually want to have a target test coverage for a release requirement?
aaime At the moment it's basically impossible
brent_ yeh, I said eventually 
aaime I would say, let's replace UI and configuration, and add testing in the process
aaime then start adding target test coverages
aaime aka, require a test coverage level when we are not too far from it 
brent_ ok
groldan sounds reasonable
aaime But yes, we should start adding tests now or we'll never get there
brent_ is this something we want to tackle after 1.5?
aaime Guess so
aaime since 1.5 is almost done anyways
brent_ yeh
brent_ I will make the changes to the GSIP page to reflect your comments on RC vs beta
brent_ and add in future testing requirements, or at least the ability to vote to have more requirements put in
aaime Cool
=-= brent_ has changed the topic to “0) propose agenda items 1) GSIP 5 2) Ingestion engine 3) Current releaase progress”
brent_ Is GeoUser here to talk about the Ingestion engine?
brent_ if not we can move onto talking about the current status of this release
appetkov (if I can get some advise aftere him?)
brent_ definitely
brent_ 3) Current release progress
brent_ we only have one blocker left
brent_ some docs stuff
appetkov (excellent, lmk when I can chime in)
brent_ and about 20 other tasks
brent_ sure thing appetkov
brent_ I tested the data_dir fix that justin made and it appears to work
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aaime well, most of my staff marked as "in progress" really just needs the switch to gt2 2.2.1
brent_ (data_dir / web.xml)
brent_ ok
brent_ right, we need the geotools release right?
aaime Yes, we need it
brent_ ok
brent_ oh Allesio said he can help out with the release, so if you have too many tasks to complete for this release, I sure you can assign some to him
aaime Who's going to do it?
brent_ not sure
jgarnett hello
brent_ hi Jody
brent_ Jody, we are talking about getting a geotools release out this week
aaime Friday I'll be away the whole day
brent_ ok
brent_ we can ask the list and see if anyone can make the release
jgarnett well I had really hoped that that steering document would of been reviewed.
jdeolive i remember reviewing it twice
jgarnett I would like to know if we are going to have a GeoTools PMC be responsible for this release etc....
jgarnett heh - thanks. Maybe I should say "adopt" the steering document then ....
aaime No gt2 meeeting yesterday...
brent_ if there are some tasks in this geoserver release that we can't get to before the end of the week, I think we should release anyways (as long as there are no blockers)
jgarnett that is too bad, any idea what happened? (canadian holiday?)
brent_ and american holiday
jgarnett So in terms of geoserver when would you like a 2.2.x code freeze?
brent_ Friday
brent_ or thursday
brent_ we want to release monday
brent_ or tuesday
jgarnett um so when you make up your mind send an email
brent_ k =)
aaime I already did twice
brent_ andrea is the only one working in 2.2, so it's his call when he is done
jgarnett I do not think making a release will be a problem, I would like to see that the geotools PMC takes responsibility as it is there mandate. I think andrea's email serves as a week's notice etc...
aaime Anybody here knowing a light windows text editor with patching capabilities?
jdeolive vi for windows
aaime sob...
jdeolive haha
brent_ I don't know of any
brent_ is that all we need to discuss about the releases?
brent_ ok
brent_ appetkov, you have the floor
appetkov can anyone tell me if there is an easy way to inherit look and feel for the web ui, for user written pages?
appetkov what i want to do is work on a community module, but it looks like to have the same look and feel i have to hack on the struts config
brent_ we use stylesheets
brent_ you can inherit from existing pages I believe
appetkov the module is for custom defined CRS list (we talked on the list about it before)
brent_ that will get you the menus
aaime you know you can't have pages in your module now, but you have to put them inside the web module, right?
brent_ I take a look at some pages and see how it is done, then I will send you an email
appetkov excellent, thanks
brent_ yeh, like Andrea said your pages have to be in the 'web' module
appetkov OK I will look into it and try that
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jgarnett hey guys did you go through the GSIP list to continue last night's meeting?
brent_ hi Cameron
brent_ we talked about GSIP 5 Jody
brent_ but not 2 or 3
brent_ we can extend the meeting time if you want to talk about them
CameronShorter hi, I've got a question about making Geoserver return WMS layers faster (when you are ready)
appetkov aaime, i didn't know about the web module
aaime Hum... are you working on geoserver 1.3.x?
CameronShorter Not sure, I'm not the system admin of the WMS box.
brent_ ok Cameron
CameronShorter I just want to point the sys admin in the right direction.
aaime My questio was for appetkov
aaime :_)
appetkov aaime, are you asking Cameron?
CameronShorter oops, sorry.
appetkov oh ok, wcs merge (the web is in there yes)
aaime So yes, any jsp you write must stay in the web module
appetkov OK
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aaime Cameron, what was your question?
brent_ CameronShorter: are you guys using caching or any tiling scheme? Or do you want just general performance improvements?
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aaime (it's not like we have a "fast" switch hidden somewhere... :-p)
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brent_ shhh, we do, it's in the Pro version
aaime Arg, sorry, I'm still inexperienced
CameronShorter I'm using a Geoserver WMS and the layers are returning very slowly (30 secs to 3 mins).
brent_ woa...
brent_ how many features are in the datasets and what are they stored in?
CameronShorter I want to give the WMS sys-admin some ideas with regards to optimisation.
aaime How many layers, how fancy sld?
CameronShorter I think there are lots of features. (All the contours of lakes in the USA)
brent_ yeh that would be a big dataset
CameronShorter SLD doesn't seem to be very fancy.
brent_ I would suggest improving the SLD and maybe having some generalized layers
CameronShorter I think the data is in Shapefiles.
aaime Can you move it to postgis?
brent_ you could have 4 or 5 datasets, each one more generalized than the last
CameronShorter I can probably move to postgis. Would that improve things?
brent_ then have the SLD render the appropriate layers
aaime (geoserver is still not using indexed shpaefiles right?)
brent_ um, there is the indexed shapefile datastore, yeh
aaime I had a feeling postgis it's faster than shafiles in the last days
aaime Ok, but does it ship with geoserver by default?
brent_ correct
brent_ it needs to be installed separately
brent_ for Sigma, we had to create several generalization of the road dataset
aaime So you either try to install the indexed shapefile datastore or you switch to postgis
CameronShorter ok
brent_ then in the SLD we requested it to draw the particular geometry based on how zoomed in the user is
CameronShorter Does indexing make much of a difference?
brent_ yes!
aaime A lot
aaime when you zoom in at least
brent_ indexing is the best thing
aaime not when you depict the full map
aaime in that case, it's generalized layers that help
CameronShorter is indexing comparable with using Postgis?
aaime postgis has indexing built in
brent_ you will need to create indexes in postgis too
brent_ but they are easy to create
CameronShorter ok
brent_ in the SLD you can also use filters to select just the features you want based on an attribute
CameronShorter Yes, I've been playing with SLD in Mapbuilder lately.
aaime Ah, right, so that you can show only major lakes on small maps, and increase on bigger ones
aaime that would be especially good if the attribute is indexed in postgis
brent_ so for lakes you can have it render just lakes that have a certain area (if you have that parameter)
CameronShorter (Doing client side vector rendering using SLD and SVG)
aaime (the attribute you use for feature selection)
CameronShorter ok
brent_ does that answer your question?
aaime Btw, how did you generalize the roads? I mean, did you write a custom utility, or used something else?
CameronShorter Ok, bottom line - use indexed shapefiles (requires a seperate pluggin) or install postgis with indexing. Combine with generalization (using seperate layers of SLD filter by attribute).
CameronShorter Yes thanks.
brent_ dave used something to do it
brent_ yep that should do it cameron
aaime Ah, using 1.4.0rc1 will help too :-p
brent_ you will probably want to generalize lakes cause they can often have a *lot* of points
CameronShorter Yes, for generalization, do you reduce the number of vetices in a line, or just not render detailed layers?
brent_ reduce the number of vertices
CameronShorter Are there tools for generalization?
aaime gt2 does on the fly generalization, but it's definitely faster to have data already generalized
aaime Maybe Jump does something, not sure
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brent_ yeh, I can't remember what dave used, but there are some out there. I will email you a page if I can find out where it is
CameronShorter ok, thanks.
CameronShorter That is it from me. Thankyou.
aaime You're welcomed
brent_ geouser just left, he was going to talk about ingestion
brent_ I will fire him off an email and see if he is coming back in
appetkov so I got the jar for custom CRS list going, but with a hardcoded value for the user's file
appetkov it follows Jody's idea for a user defined file with CRS definitions in it
appetkov it loads the list on geoserver startup
appetkov however, it would be nice if the user has more control over it, and eventually addn content to it too
aaime as long as it's in a jar, you can't change it
appetkov that's why iI was asking for the jsp help
appetkov no, not in jar, not the user CRS list
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appetkov (that was the whole point)
aaime Ok
aaime So you'd like to expose the file location and contents thru the web user interface
appetkov yes, let's say to the authenticated user
aaime prepare for some though days... the configuration system of geoserver is... welll.... don't know how to define it
brent_ scary
aaime Let's just say adding a simple property made my head hurt quite a bit
aaime Yeah
appetkov it is I looked around
brent_ 5 gray hairs per page you edit
brent_ the main struts-config.xml file is there most of the work is done
brent_ *where most of the work is done
appetkov that's the one I didn't want to touch
brent_ heh
brent_ you can just edit the JSPs and put in a regular html hyperlink to point to your page
appetkov So user stuff in community can be added to the web interface?
brent_ but if you want it to interact directly with geoserver, you will need to use struts-config.xml
appetkov OK
brent_ um... not sure
appetkov I guess I was thinking about adding jsp pages as painlessly as adding a jar for community module
brent_ anything else to discuss today?
appetkov thanks for your help guys
brent_ np, if you run into questions about the web UI we can try to answer
appetkov excellent, thanks
brent_ ok I'm going to call the meeting to a close
brent_ thanks for attending everyone
--
Brent Owens
(The Open Planning Project)