[Geoserver-users] JDBCConfig export Catalog to XML Catalog in GEOSERVER DAT DIR

geowolf wrote

Whether people are using it or not is, in the end, more or less
irrelevant,
because this community
is not a public service, it's a body of work shared by some people, and
used by many others.

Thank you, Andrea.

I am acutely aware of that, just like, I think, many of GeoServer's users.
The problem is that there is only that much funding available. Some of us
already support as much as they can afford the development of the OSS they
use. Personally, if I am to hit an impassable road bump with GeoServer, I
would request paid support, budget permitting.

Apologies if this sounds like criticism - far from my intention - but saying
that it's irrelevant whether people use it or not sounds discouraging.

The name "GeoServer - User" suggests a public forum, even though it's not a
public service. Ultimately, a public discussion could 1) spur activity
around a module, leading to contributions 2) help with gathering valuable
feedback, such as use cases, 3) allow users to team up and support a feature
which might be too expensive for a single user to fund. The more [sensible]
users, and the more they get involved, the higher the conversion rate.

That's more or less what I had in mind when I said we could do more.

Best regards,
Manuel

--
Sent from: http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/GeoServer-User-f3786390.html

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 5:10 PM, timita <timita@anonymised.com> wrote:

Apologies if this sounds like criticism - far from my intention - but
saying
that it's irrelevant whether people use it or not sounds discouraging.

I don't mean to discourage contribution, mind, but I do want to discourage
the
notion that people can just ask and developers have nothing better to do
than
follow their requests.
If GeoServer was a paid product, it might make sense to do that, so that a
new
set of licences are getting sold at the N+1 release.
But it is not, and development is really driven by necessities of the
contributor's
paid work (plus some spare time activity that clearly cannot be steered any
way,
each one has a right to do what they prefer outside of working hours).
It's actually somewhat worse than this, in that the project is being kept
alive by
a bunch of people that perform a number of unpaid activities, like user
support,
code reviews, releases, participation to the monthly bug stomp and the like,
while others merrily keep on "contributing" bits of code that they were
sponsored
to work on, without taking on any of the above. Now that's fine for a
isolated contribution,
not so when they are repeated over time (like, there is clearly a business
revolving
around the project, but without the "cost" that core devs pay daily),
because it's
discouraging, upsetting and eventually starving the core devs (starving as
in,
the ratio between actual maintainers and available code to maintain worsens
and worsens
over time).
Anyways, I'm digressing :slight_smile:

The key point is that actual change needs actual resources.

The name "GeoServer - User" suggests a public forum, even though it's not a
public service. Ultimately, a public discussion could 1) spur activity
around a module, leading to contributions 2) help with gathering valuable
feedback, such as use cases,

Yep, we have multiple rounds of these two, if you check the archives.

3) allow users to team up and support a feature
which might be too expensive for a single user to fund.

This bit is actually partially covered too, there are more pull requests
showing on on JDBCConfig,
which is a sign of interest and partial resourcing. What is missing is an
actual maintainer
(someone that reviews pull requests, answers user questions, and generally
truly
participates to the project life), enough that the module can switch from
community "hell"
to official extension.

Cheers
Andrea

==

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V
for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
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loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio,
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utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
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copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
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does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
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e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

Hi Andrea,

Thank you for taking the time for such detailed explanation. It made things a lot clearer.

"
I do want to discourage the
notion that people can just ask and developers have nothing better to do than
follow their requests.
"

Yeah, this is simply not the kind of people I ever thought of encouraging. Everyone reaching the age of 14 and having written their first System.out.println(“foo”) should assume better.

"
the project is being kept alive by
a bunch of people that perform a number of unpaid activities, like user support,
code reviews, releases, participation to the monthly bug stomp and the like,
while others merrily keep on “contributing” bits of code that they were sponsored
to work on, without taking on any of the above.
"

That is something I never thought about. I’ll keep it mind. It is actually something I could personally try and help with.

Particularly with user support, I’m actually very happy to do what I can, as I think I got to know GeoServer very well. Is this forum the place to start with? Or is it the issue tracker? Apologies for lacking the basic knowledge in this respect.

Best regards,
Manuel

···

On 20 March 2018 at 16:49, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 5:10 PM, timita <timita@anonymised.com> wrote:

Apologies if this sounds like criticism - far from my intention - but saying
that it’s irrelevant whether people use it or not sounds discouraging.

I don’t mean to discourage contribution, mind, but I do want to discourage the
notion that people can just ask and developers have nothing better to do than
follow their requests.
If GeoServer was a paid product, it might make sense to do that, so that a new
set of licences are getting sold at the N+1 release.
But it is not, and development is really driven by necessities of the contributor’s
paid work (plus some spare time activity that clearly cannot be steered any way,
each one has a right to do what they prefer outside of working hours).
It’s actually somewhat worse than this, in that the project is being kept alive by
a bunch of people that perform a number of unpaid activities, like user support,
code reviews, releases, participation to the monthly bug stomp and the like,
while others merrily keep on “contributing” bits of code that they were sponsored
to work on, without taking on any of the above. Now that’s fine for a isolated contribution,
not so when they are repeated over time (like, there is clearly a business revolving
around the project, but without the “cost” that core devs pay daily), because it’s
discouraging, upsetting and eventually starving the core devs (starving as in,
the ratio between actual maintainers and available code to maintain worsens and worsens
over time).
Anyways, I’m digressing :slight_smile:

The key point is that actual change needs actual resources.

The name “GeoServer - User” suggests a public forum, even though it’s not a
public service. Ultimately, a public discussion could 1) spur activity
around a module, leading to contributions 2) help with gathering valuable
feedback, such as use cases,

Yep, we have multiple rounds of these two, if you check the archives.

  1. allow users to team up and support a feature
    which might be too expensive for a single user to fund.

This bit is actually partially covered too, there are more pull requests showing on on JDBCConfig,
which is a sign of interest and partial resourcing. What is missing is an actual maintainer
(someone that reviews pull requests, answers user questions, and generally truly
participates to the project life), enough that the module can switch from community “hell”
to official extension.

Cheers
Andrea

==

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 6:35 PM, Manuel Timita <manuel@anonymised.com> wrote:

That is something I never thought about. I'll keep it mind. It is actually
something I could personally try and help with.

Particularly with user support, I'm actually very happy to do what I can,
as I think I got to know GeoServer very well. Is this forum the place to
start with? Or is it the issue tracker? Apologies for lacking the basic
knowledge in this respect.

Just hang on the user list and when you see a request that you think you
can provide help to,
jump in and answer.

I try very hard not to answer mails right away to allow others to chime in
and help too (ok ok, sometimes
I forget, need to get better at this :-p )

Cheers
Andrea

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V
for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il
loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio,
per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo
messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di
darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio
stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso,
divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od
utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for
the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or
proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act
(Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy's New Data Protection
Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction,
copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is
strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the
information in this message that has been received in error. The sender
does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or
completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes
made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of
e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.

Thanks Andrea. You’ve been very patient :slight_smile:

···

On 20 March 2018 at 17:50, Andrea Aime <andrea.aime@anonymised.com> wrote:

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 6:35 PM, Manuel Timita <manuel@anonymised.com> wrote:

That is something I never thought about. I’ll keep it mind. It is actually something I could personally try and help with.

Particularly with user support, I’m actually very happy to do what I can, as I think I got to know GeoServer very well. Is this forum the place to start with? Or is it the issue tracker? Apologies for lacking the basic knowledge in this respect.

Just hang on the user list and when you see a request that you think you can provide help to,
jump in and answer.

I try very hard not to answer mails right away to allow others to chime in and help too (ok ok, sometimes
I forget, need to get better at this :-p )

Cheers

Andrea

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054 Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39 339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003

Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio, per le finalità indicate nel messaggio stesso. Qualora riceviate questo messaggio senza esserne il destinatario, Vi preghiamo cortesemente di darcene notizia via e-mail e di procedere alla distruzione del messaggio stesso, cancellandolo dal Vostro sistema. Conservare il messaggio stesso, divulgarlo anche in parte, distribuirlo ad altri soggetti, copiarlo, od utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai principi dettati dal D.Lgs. 196/2003.

The information in this message and/or attachments, is intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) and may be confidential or proprietary in nature or covered by the provisions of privacy act (Legislative Decree June, 30 2003, no.196 - Italy’s New Data Protection Code).Any use not in accord with its purpose, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, distribution, or either dissemination, either whole or partial, is strictly forbidden except previous formal approval of the named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please contact immediately the sender by telephone, fax or e-mail and delete the information in this message that has been received in error. The sender does not give any warranty or accept liability as the content, accuracy or completeness of sent messages and accepts no responsibility for changes made after they were sent or for other risks which arise as a result of e-mail transmission, viruses, etc.