Hi,
I just stumbled over this popularity ranking of GIS software:
http://gisgeography.com/mapping-out-gis-software-landscape
I took the liberty to comment on the article (scoll to the bottom). Maybe someone has points to add…
There is also a “review” of Free and Open Source GIS Software:
http://gisgeography.com/free-gis-software/
Kind regards,
Stefan
FYI, I could not resist to also commenting on the GRASS “review” here:
http://gisgeography.com/grass-gis-geographic-resources-analysis-support-system/
as I actually took a bit offense in what gisgeography.com was writing – even if I am not one of the developers of all the nice features they condemned in the “review”.
Obviously, the authors of the review seem to be lost in new surroundings… This makes me even more happy, that I do not depend on an overloaded GUI (which now and then gets fully renovated so users think they get a new and better software, buy the “new” version and then run to courses for learning the new GUI).
Cheers
Stefan
From: Qgis-user [mailto:qgis-user-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Blumentrath, Stefan
Sent: 23. september 2016 10:10
To: grass-user grass-user (grass-user@lists.osgeo.org) grass-user@lists.osgeo.org; Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [Qgis-user] GIS software popularity ranking: http://gisgeography.com/mapping-out-gis-software-landscape
Hi,
I just stumbled over this popularity ranking of GIS software:
http://gisgeography.com/mapping-out-gis-software-landscape
I took the liberty to comment on the article (scoll to the bottom). Maybe someone has points to add…
There is also a “review” of Free and Open Source GIS Software:
http://gisgeography.com/free-gis-software/
Kind regards,
Stefan
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016, Blumentrath, Stefan wrote:
FYI, I could not resist to also commenting on the GRASS "review" here:
Obviously, the authors of the review seem to be lost in new
surroundings.
Stefan,
When you realize that the majority of computer users who write articles or
reviews for the Web know only Microsoft's OSes the author's 'cons' make
perfect sense.
Too many users know only to point-and-click, drag-and-drop, and work in a
pretty GUI. The idea of typing something on a command line is not only
foreigh, but frightening; many have never done so before. When you see
complaints such as 'the toolbars are in a different place' and 'handles
coordinate systems in different locations' it is obvious that the writer is
very limited in understanding what's important: function over form.
I read reviews like this and know to ignore them. Those readers who accept
such reviews at face value are equally naive. The focus on the user
interface is typical of those who were taught superficial use of an
application without fully understanding how to use it to solve problems. The
analogy I use when texplaing my GIS or statistical tools to clients and
others is that one can teach someone how to use a word processor but that
does not make him a writer.
Rich
Sadly, it's not just Microsoft users that take the GUI view. A couple of years ago GRASS was reviewed in Linux Journal and they didn't even mention it was scriptable. I wrote a letter to the editor to point that out and they responded that that was minimally interesting.
Dave Roberts
On 09/26/16 06:55, Rich Shepard wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016, Blumentrath, Stefan wrote:
FYI, I could not resist to also commenting on the GRASS "review" here:
Obviously, the authors of the review seem to be lost in new
surroundings.Stefan,
When you realize that the majority of computer users who write
articles or
reviews for the Web know only Microsoft's OSes the author's 'cons' make
perfect sense.Too many users know only to point-and-click, drag-and-drop, and work in a
pretty GUI. The idea of typing something on a command line is not only
foreigh, but frightening; many have never done so before. When you see
complaints such as 'the toolbars are in a different place' and 'handles
coordinate systems in different locations' it is obvious that the writer is
very limited in understanding what's important: function over form.I read reviews like this and know to ignore them. Those readers who
accept
such reviews at face value are equally naive. The focus on the user
interface is typical of those who were taught superficial use of an
application without fully understanding how to use it to solve problems.
The
analogy I use when texplaing my GIS or statistical tools to clients and
others is that one can teach someone how to use a word processor but that
does not make him a writer.Rich
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On 2016-09-27 at 16:57, Dave Roberts <droberts@montana.edu> wrote:
Sadly, it's not just Microsoft users that take the GUI view. A couple
of years ago GRASS was reviewed in Linux Journal and they didn't even
mention it was scriptable. I wrote a letter to the editor to point
that out and they responded that that was minimally interesting.
I predict scriptable interfaces will become more popular as larger data and "reproducible research" become more important. The former is why almost all GIS packages include script capabilities. The latter will increase its usage. Then it is up to users to realize that something designed to be scriptable works better than something where the scripting is added on to a GUI.
-k.
On Tue, 27 Sep 2016, Dave Roberts wrote:
Sadly, it's not just Microsoft users that take the GUI view. A couple of
years ago GRASS was reviewed in Linux Journal and they didn't even mention
it was scriptable. I wrote a letter to the editor to point that out and
they responded that that was minimally interesting.
Dave,
I think this makes sense in the context in which desktop GIS developed. It
was developed and marketed as mapping software. It could be used to answer
two main questions: what is where? And, where is what? I'm thinking of
MapInfo in the early 1990s where one could do simple vector overlays but the
emphasis was on producing pretty maps. This was different from the
PC-ARC/Info I used for a year or so in the late 1980s (I was a beta tester
for them) and certainly from GRASS (which I started using in the
mid-1990s.).
Think of the rise of desktop publishing in the mid- to late-1980s.
Suddenly, everyone became a graphic designer (in their own minds, at least)
and produced many ugly fliers and documents. This is similar to the
difference between GIS as a computerized map creation tool and as spatial
analysis tool.
Germane to the various GIS software reviews and rankings allow me to
suggest that we ignore them. Those who matter don't mind that GRASS is
poo-poo'd for using such complexities as the console and scripts, and those
who mind don't matter because they wouldn't use GRASS anyway.
Rich
Rich,
The only problem (not for us per se) is wider acceptance of GRASS GIS based on inherent biases derived from a lack of familiarity with GRASS and blind disregard for it. At worst, GRASS’ capabilities are misrepresented. GRASS, QGIS, SAGA GIS, etc. represent threats to ESRI – they are not above spreading falsehoods… A larger user base enriches open source projects – R serves as a great example…
Tom
On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 1:24 PM, Rich Shepard <rshepard@appl-ecosys.com> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Sep 2016, Dave Roberts wrote:
Sadly, it’s not just Microsoft users that take the GUI view. A couple of
years ago GRASS was reviewed in Linux Journal and they didn’t even mention
it was scriptable. I wrote a letter to the editor to point that out and
they responded that that was minimally interesting.Dave,
I think this makes sense in the context in which desktop GIS developed. It
was developed and marketed as mapping software. It could be used to answer
two main questions: what is where? And, where is what? I’m thinking of
MapInfo in the early 1990s where one could do simple vector overlays but the
emphasis was on producing pretty maps. This was different from the
PC-ARC/Info I used for a year or so in the late 1980s (I was a beta tester
for them) and certainly from GRASS (which I started using in the
mid-1990s.).Think of the rise of desktop publishing in the mid- to late-1980s.
Suddenly, everyone became a graphic designer (in their own minds, at least)
and produced many ugly fliers and documents. This is similar to the
difference between GIS as a computerized map creation tool and as spatial
analysis tool.Germane to the various GIS software reviews and rankings allow me to
suggest that we ignore them. Those who matter don’t mind that GRASS is
poo-poo’d for using such complexities as the console and scripts, and those
who mind don’t matter because they wouldn’t use GRASS anyway.Rich
grass-user mailing list
grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
On Tue, 27 Sep 2016, Thomas Adams wrote:
The only problem (not for us per se) is wider acceptance of GRASS GIS
based on inherent biases derived from a lack of familiarity with GRASS and
blind disregard for it. At worst, GRASS' capabilities are misrepresented.
GRASS, QGIS, SAGA GIS, etc. represent threats to ESRI -- they are not
above spreading falsehoods... A larger user base enriches open source
projects -- R serves as a great example...
Tom,
I concur completely. Think back to 1981-1989 when no one was fired for
specifying IBM for PC hardware despite Epson, Compaq, Leading Edge, etc.
being technically better and _much_ less expensive.
Because ESRI, Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, etc. see F/OSS as a threat they do
throw around their weight to maintain market share. Part of the way they do
this is by purchasing advertising space in general market publications as
well as specialty publications for their particular software. Therefore,
those publications will not promote F/OSS software since there's no revenue
from this source and they are, after all, in business to make money.
Perhaps the best way of advocating for GRASS, R, etc. is a two-pronged
approach. The prong of least resistance is to demonstrate the capabilities
of F/OSS software to provide necessary business solutions by using this
software rather than proprietary versions. I've run my environmental
consultancy since 1997 using only linux and F/OSS applications (most
frequently LaTeX, R, GRASS, and PostgreSQL/SQLite.
The second prong is more difficult: get users who regularly use GRASS, R,
LibreOffice, and other F/OSS applications to defenestrate and move to linux.
Given the plethora of various Ubuntu flavors most who make the move find it
painless and learn the joy of free and better quality software at the OS
level, too.
Rich
Rich Shepard <rshepard@appl-ecosys.com> writes:
On Tue, 27 Sep 2016, Thomas Adams wrote:
The only problem (not for us per se) is wider acceptance of GRASS GIS
based on inherent biases derived from a lack of familiarity with GRASS and
blind disregard for it. At worst, GRASS' capabilities are misrepresented.
GRASS, QGIS, SAGA GIS, etc. represent threats to ESRI -- they are not
above spreading falsehoods... A larger user base enriches open source
projects -- R serves as a great example...Tom,
I concur completely. Think back to 1981-1989 when no one was fired for
specifying IBM for PC hardware despite Epson, Compaq, Leading Edge, etc.
being technically better and _much_ less expensive.Because ESRI, Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, etc. see F/OSS as a threat they do
throw around their weight to maintain market share. Part of the way they do
this is by purchasing advertising space in general market publications as
well as specialty publications for their particular software. Therefore,
those publications will not promote F/OSS software since there's no revenue
from this source and they are, after all, in business to make money.Perhaps the best way of advocating for GRASS, R, etc. is a two-pronged
approach. The prong of least resistance is to demonstrate the capabilities
of F/OSS software to provide necessary business solutions by using this
software rather than proprietary versions. I've run my environmental
consultancy since 1997 using only linux and F/OSS applications (most
frequently LaTeX, R, GRASS, and PostgreSQL/SQLite.The second prong is more difficult: get users who regularly use GRASS, R,
LibreOffice, and other F/OSS applications to defenestrate and move to linux.
Given the plethora of various Ubuntu flavors most who make the move find it
painless and learn the joy of free and better quality software at the OS
level, too.
I agree that Linux is a great OS, but I moved to Apple (not the place
here to discuss why) and I try to advocate that one can use F/OSS
software easily when using other OS as well - Apple with OS X and macOS
and homebrew works perfectly, and I think that Windows works as well -
although not that easily (?). So I say: it is very important to use
F/OSS software, on whatever OS you are working. If you want to (and it
is not difficult) switch to Linux, but this is not essential.
Cheers,
Rainer
Rich
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--
Rainer M. Krug
email: Rainer<at>krugs<dot>de
PGP: 0x0F52F982
Hei Rich,
Agreed that documenting and showcasing capabilities of GRASS is most convincing for possible new users.
And of course I would not comment on every blog out there that claims to "compare" or "review" different GIS.
Yet, http://gisgeography.com.w3snoop.com/ estimates that gisgeography.com has almost 22k individual visitors per day and > 7Mio per year. So I assume what is written there has some impact.
Maybe I just have to admit that I am a bit thin-skinned here to react on that kind of stuff... Yet, when you are not your own boss, but work in a (probably ESRI oriented) company, you would know that exactly this blind repetition of prejudices is what makes you struggle to build up a lively and well supported (in terms of all sorts of support your employer can offer) user group of Free and Open Source Software.
If you are not answering back in such settings, uninvolved or uninformed colleagues (esp. those in leading positions) will tend to believe they are really paying all the money for "quality" which thus gives a good return on investments.
Writing things like "clunky GUI", "cartographic nightmare"... can repel not only migrators, but also those starting with GIS from scratch...
Cheers
Stefan
-----Original Message-----
From: grass-user [mailto:grass-user-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Rich Shepard
Sent: 27. september 2016 20:16
To: grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [GRASS-user] GIS software popularity ranking: http://gisgeography.com/mapping-out-gis-software-landscape
On Tue, 27 Sep 2016, Thomas Adams wrote:
The only problem (not for us per se) is wider acceptance of GRASS GIS
based on inherent biases derived from a lack of familiarity with GRASS
and blind disregard for it. At worst, GRASS' capabilities are misrepresented.
GRASS, QGIS, SAGA GIS, etc. represent threats to ESRI -- they are not
above spreading falsehoods... A larger user base enriches open source
projects -- R serves as a great example...
Tom,
I concur completely. Think back to 1981-1989 when no one was fired for specifying IBM for PC hardware despite Epson, Compaq, Leading Edge, etc.
being technically better and _much_ less expensive.
Because ESRI, Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, etc. see F/OSS as a threat they do throw around their weight to maintain market share. Part of the way they do this is by purchasing advertising space in general market publications as well as specialty publications for their particular software. Therefore, those publications will not promote F/OSS software since there's no revenue from this source and they are, after all, in business to make money.
Perhaps the best way of advocating for GRASS, R, etc. is a two-pronged approach. The prong of least resistance is to demonstrate the capabilities of F/OSS software to provide necessary business solutions by using this software rather than proprietary versions. I've run my environmental consultancy since 1997 using only linux and F/OSS applications (most frequently LaTeX, R, GRASS, and PostgreSQL/SQLite.
The second prong is more difficult: get users who regularly use GRASS, R, LibreOffice, and other F/OSS applications to defenestrate and move to linux.
Given the plethora of various Ubuntu flavors most who make the move find it painless and learn the joy of free and better quality software at the OS level, too.
Rich
_______________________________________________
grass-user mailing list
grass-user@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user