[GRASS-user] Scientific Comparison between GRASS and Proprietary Remote Sensing/GIS Software

GRASS GRASS user
1

Dear all,

One week ago I had a discussion with someone who is expert in remote sensing.
It was a really nice discussion though we have a different perspective in using software.
I prefer to use GRASS, because it's an open source software while he prefer to use
proprietary software. He believed that GRASS can't do some tasks that proprietary softwares do.
He thought that GRASS is not mature enough to be used. He asked me some prove that the results from GRASS is the same with proprietary software.
For me, it will be better if I bring actual comparison between GRASS and proprietary software, though maybe it will take some time.
Is there any link or arguments to give an accurate explanation for such kind of people?
Thanks.

--
Firman Hadi,
Center for Remote Sensing - ITB
Labtek IXC, 3rd Floor
Jl. Ganesha No. 10
Bandung - INDONESIA
http://crs.itb.ac.id
Blog: http://jalmiburung.wordpress.com

2

Hello Firman,

My colleague an I just submitted a paper about a comparison between
GRASS and ArcGIS, using morphometric maps as a base. In general terms,
they both give similar results, except when there was an interpolation
with clustered data (points clustered along streamlines but with
clusters far from each other). In this case, GRASS produced a very
nice result, while ArcGIS made a really bad interpolation.

Other the one hand, I guess some things are easier to do in some
proprietary software, most of them have better map-producing
capabilities than GRASS and GRASS lacks some more interactive tools
(like interactive histogram stretching, color table manipulation for
vector maps etc).

On the other hand, you can do things in GRASS you couldn't even think
about in proprietary GIS. Consider how powerful r.mapcalc is, see the
beauty of a NVIZ session (all my ArcGIS friends are impressed with
NVIZ), or even how easy it is to adapt some piece of code to suit your
needs (I had to do that, I needed larger neighborhoods than
r.neighbors default maximum size - 25 - so I just changed in the code
and recompiled).

my two cents

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Firman Hadi <firman.hadi@crs.itb.ac.id> wrote:

Dear all,

One week ago I had a discussion with someone who is expert in remote
sensing.
It was a really nice discussion though we have a different perspective
in using software.
I prefer to use GRASS, because it's an open source software while he
prefer to use
proprietary software. He believed that GRASS can't do some tasks that
proprietary softwares do.
He thought that GRASS is not mature enough to be used. He asked me some
prove that the results from GRASS is the same with proprietary software.
For me, it will be better if I bring actual comparison between GRASS and
proprietary software, though maybe it will take some time.
Is there any link or arguments to give an accurate explanation for such
kind of people?
Thanks.

--
Firman Hadi,
Center for Remote Sensing - ITB
Labtek IXC, 3rd Floor
Jl. Ganesha No. 10
Bandung - INDONESIA
http://crs.itb.ac.id
Blog: http://jalmiburung.wordpress.com

_______________________________________________
grassuser mailing list
grassuser@grass.itc.it
http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
              Carlos Henrique Grohmann - Guano
  Visiting Researcher at Kingston University London - UK
  Geologist M.Sc - Doctorate Student at IGc-USP - Brazil
Linux User #89721 - carlos dot grohmann at gmail dot com
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
_________________
"Good morning, doctors. I have taken the liberty of removing Windows
95 from my hard drive."
--The winning entry in a "What were HAL's first words" contest judged
by 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY creator Arthur C. Clarke

3

Hi Firman,

Could you send us a reference to your paper?

Jan Hartmann

Dr. J. Hartmann
Department of Geography
University of Amsterdam

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:

Hello Firman,

My colleague an I just submitted a paper about a comparison between
GRASS and ArcGIS, using morphometric maps as a base. In general terms,
they both give similar results, except when there was an interpolation
with clustered data (points clustered along streamlines but with
clusters far from each other). In this case, GRASS produced a very
nice result, while ArcGIS made a really bad interpolation.

Other the one hand, I guess some things are easier to do in some
proprietary software, most of them have better map-producing
capabilities than GRASS and GRASS lacks some more interactive tools
(like interactive histogram stretching, color table manipulation for
vector maps etc).

On the other hand, you can do things in GRASS you couldn't even think
about in proprietary GIS. Consider how powerful r.mapcalc is, see the
beauty of a NVIZ session (all my ArcGIS friends are impressed with
NVIZ), or even how easy it is to adapt some piece of code to suit your
needs (I had to do that, I needed larger neighborhoods than
r.neighbors default maximum size - 25 - so I just changed in the code
and recompiled).

my two cents

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Firman Hadi <firman.hadi@crs.itb.ac.id> wrote:

Dear all,

One week ago I had a discussion with someone who is expert in remote
sensing.
It was a really nice discussion though we have a different perspective
in using software.
I prefer to use GRASS, because it's an open source software while he
prefer to use
proprietary software. He believed that GRASS can't do some tasks that
proprietary softwares do.
He thought that GRASS is not mature enough to be used. He asked me some
prove that the results from GRASS is the same with proprietary software.
For me, it will be better if I bring actual comparison between GRASS and
proprietary software, though maybe it will take some time.
Is there any link or arguments to give an accurate explanation for such
kind of people?
Thanks.

--
Firman Hadi,
Center for Remote Sensing - ITB
Labtek IXC, 3rd Floor
Jl. Ganesha No. 10
Bandung - INDONESIA
http://crs.itb.ac.id
Blog: http://jalmiburung.wordpress.com

_______________________________________________
grassuser mailing list
grassuser@grass.itc.it
http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser

4

This is it so far, but like I said, its _submitted_ I haven't received
anything back from the reviewers yet....

Steiner, S.S., Grohmann, C.H., 2007. A comparison between ArcGIS and
GRASS-GIS in elaboration and manipulation of morphometric parameters.
Submitted to Computers & Geosciences.

cheers

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Jan Hartmann <j.l.h.hartmann@uva.nl> wrote:

Hi Firman,

Could you send us a reference to your paper?

Jan Hartmann

Dr. J. Hartmann
Department of Geography
University of Amsterdam

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
> Hello Firman,
>
> My colleague an I just submitted a paper about a comparison between
> GRASS and ArcGIS, using morphometric maps as a base. In general terms,
> they both give similar results, except when there was an interpolation
> with clustered data (points clustered along streamlines but with
> clusters far from each other). In this case, GRASS produced a very
> nice result, while ArcGIS made a really bad interpolation.
>
> Other the one hand, I guess some things are easier to do in some
> proprietary software, most of them have better map-producing
> capabilities than GRASS and GRASS lacks some more interactive tools
> (like interactive histogram stretching, color table manipulation for
> vector maps etc).
>
> On the other hand, you can do things in GRASS you couldn't even think
> about in proprietary GIS. Consider how powerful r.mapcalc is, see the
> beauty of a NVIZ session (all my ArcGIS friends are impressed with
> NVIZ), or even how easy it is to adapt some piece of code to suit your
> needs (I had to do that, I needed larger neighborhoods than
> r.neighbors default maximum size - 25 - so I just changed in the code
> and recompiled).
>
> my two cents
>
> Carlos
>
> On 7/9/07, Firman Hadi <firman.hadi@crs.itb.ac.id> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> One week ago I had a discussion with someone who is expert in remote
>> sensing.
>> It was a really nice discussion though we have a different perspective
>> in using software.
>> I prefer to use GRASS, because it's an open source software while he
>> prefer to use
>> proprietary software. He believed that GRASS can't do some tasks that
>> proprietary softwares do.
>> He thought that GRASS is not mature enough to be used. He asked me some
>> prove that the results from GRASS is the same with proprietary software.
>> For me, it will be better if I bring actual comparison between GRASS and
>> proprietary software, though maybe it will take some time.
>> Is there any link or arguments to give an accurate explanation for such
>> kind of people?
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Firman Hadi,
>> Center for Remote Sensing - ITB
>> Labtek IXC, 3rd Floor
>> Jl. Ganesha No. 10
>> Bandung - INDONESIA
>> http://crs.itb.ac.id
>> Blog: http://jalmiburung.wordpress.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grassuser mailing list
>> grassuser@grass.itc.it
>> http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser
>>
>

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
              Carlos Henrique Grohmann - Guano
  Visiting Researcher at Kingston University London - UK
  Geologist M.Sc - Doctorate Student at IGc-USP - Brazil
Linux User #89721 - carlos dot grohmann at gmail dot com
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
_________________
"Good morning, doctors. I have taken the liberty of removing Windows
95 from my hard drive."
--The winning entry in a "What were HAL's first words" contest judged
by 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY creator Arthur C. Clarke

5

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann napisał(a):

Hello Firman,

My colleague an I just submitted a paper about a comparison between
GRASS and ArcGIS, using morphometric maps as a base. In general terms,
they both give similar results, except when there was an interpolation
with clustered data (points clustered along streamlines but with
clusters far from each other). In this case, GRASS produced a very
nice result, while ArcGIS made a really bad interpolation.

Other the one hand, I guess some things are easier to do in some
proprietary software, most of them have better map-producing
capabilities than GRASS and GRASS lacks some more interactive tools
(like interactive histogram stretching, color table manipulation for
vector maps etc).

On the other hand, you can do things in GRASS you couldn't even think
about in proprietary GIS. Consider how powerful r.mapcalc is, see the
beauty of a NVIZ session (all my ArcGIS friends are impressed with
NVIZ), or even how easy it is to adapt some piece of code to suit your
needs (I had to do that, I needed larger neighborhoods than
r.neighbors default maximum size - 25 - so I just changed in the code
and recompiled).

my two cents

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Firman Hadi <firman.hadi@crs.itb.ac.id> wrote:

Dear all,

One week ago I had a discussion with someone who is expert in remote
sensing.
It was a really nice discussion though we have a different perspective
in using software.
I prefer to use GRASS, because it's an open source software while he
prefer to use
proprietary software. He believed that GRASS can't do some tasks that
proprietary softwares do.
He thought that GRASS is not mature enough to be used. He asked me some
prove that the results from GRASS is the same with proprietary software.
For me, it will be better if I bring actual comparison between GRASS and
proprietary software, though maybe it will take some time.
Is there any link or arguments to give an accurate explanation for such
kind of people?
Thanks.

--
Firman Hadi,
Center for Remote Sensing - ITB
Labtek IXC, 3rd Floor
Jl. Ganesha No. 10
Bandung - INDONESIA
http://crs.itb.ac.id
Blog: http://jalmiburung.wordpress.com

_______________________________________________
grassuser mailing list
grassuser@grass.itc.it
http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser

Well, 'proprietary software' is not synonymus of ArcGIS
in general there is lot of less expensive proprietary software like for example Idrisi for which (IMHO) grass is real alternative
So If you need arguments there is: Open (and Free) software is very comparable with less expensive proprietary software

But I'll be rather carefull with comparing GRASS with High-End GIS software. That software created for big comercial projects, where speed, visualisation, and simpliyfy of using are most important, in Arc there are lot of facilities like versioning, geodatabase, coverage with topology, advanced editing, symbology and so on, which power can be used only on really big group projects

Addationally, analitical tools in ArcGIS are not the best. The main assumption of arc is to create rather environment than complete solution. So there are lot of extension for Arc which are free or can be bought separetly

6

Firman Hadi wrote:

One week ago I had a discussion with someone who is expert in remote
sensing.
It was a really nice discussion though we have a different perspective
in using software.
I prefer to use GRASS, because it's an open source software while he
prefer to use proprietary software.

He believed that GRASS can't do some tasks that proprietary softwares
do.

It is impossible to match every feature when the opponents are a single
piece of software vs. an entire software business model.

GRASS can't do some things that proprietary GIS do, sure; but GRASS will
do more things than the vast majority of other GISs will (proprietary or
not). GRASS 6.3 is up to 390 modules, plus there are approx 50-100 addon
modules out there. It does a lot of tasks over many fields of endevour.

corollary- what are the licensing costs to buy every proprietary toolbox
needed to match the features of a full GRASS install?
Can it be done for < US$10,000? <$50,000? <$100,000??

He thought that GRASS is not mature enough to be used.

Parts of the core libraries date back to the early 1980s. core
projection and import/export libraries are best of breed in the industry
AFAICT. At least for GRASS's raster map library (libgis), bug reports
are very rare. For those parts, you will not find much more mature
specialized software anywhere. Could it be more mature if it was 50
years old instead of 25?
(granted maturity ~ integral of time*userbase, not time alone. And maturity
is not the same thing as refinement+polish [prettiness])

He asked me some prove that the results from GRASS is the same with
proprietary software.

In the general sense, it is an impossible task to do this with any two
software. More important would be to test that the results are correct
for both softwares. This is best tested using in-house test cases which
deal with tasks which your organization works on; it is impossible prove
that GRASS is a 100% clone when it isn't trying to be. In many cases
GRASS will produce a more correct result, but different. In other cases
not, but to know you have to test. Broad assumptions and claims are
useless here.

For me, it will be better if I bring actual comparison between GRASS
and proprietary software, though maybe it will take some time. Is
there any link or arguments to give an accurate explanation for such
kind of people?

you might try on the wiki site:
http://grass.gdf-hannover.de/wiki/GRASS_Help#Migration_from_other_GIS_Software

In many cases I expect his proprietary software would not live up to the
standard he asks to be proven of GRASS.

good luck,
Hamish

7

Carlos, is it possible to get a copy of your article? It is important in "selling" GRASS and Open Source GIS in my University environment. That's not easy, to say the least, so I can use any help I can get.

Jan

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:

This is it so far, but like I said, its _submitted_ I haven't received
anything back from the reviewers yet....

Steiner, S.S., Grohmann, C.H., 2007. A comparison between ArcGIS and
GRASS-GIS in elaboration and manipulation of morphometric parameters.
Submitted to Computers & Geosciences.

cheers

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Jan Hartmann <j.l.h.hartmann@uva.nl> wrote:

Hi Firman,

Could you send us a reference to your paper?

Jan Hartmann

Dr. J. Hartmann
Department of Geography
University of Amsterdam

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
> Hello Firman,
>
> My colleague an I just submitted a paper about a comparison between
> GRASS and ArcGIS, using morphometric maps as a base. In general terms,
> they both give similar results, except when there was an interpolation
> with clustered data (points clustered along streamlines but with
> clusters far from each other). In this case, GRASS produced a very
> nice result, while ArcGIS made a really bad interpolation.
>
> Other the one hand, I guess some things are easier to do in some
> proprietary software, most of them have better map-producing
> capabilities than GRASS and GRASS lacks some more interactive tools
> (like interactive histogram stretching, color table manipulation for
> vector maps etc).
>
> On the other hand, you can do things in GRASS you couldn't even think
> about in proprietary GIS. Consider how powerful r.mapcalc is, see the
> beauty of a NVIZ session (all my ArcGIS friends are impressed with
> NVIZ), or even how easy it is to adapt some piece of code to suit your
> needs (I had to do that, I needed larger neighborhoods than
> r.neighbors default maximum size - 25 - so I just changed in the code
> and recompiled).
>
> my two cents
>
> Carlos
>
> On 7/9/07, Firman Hadi <firman.hadi@crs.itb.ac.id> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> One week ago I had a discussion with someone who is expert in remote
>> sensing.
>> It was a really nice discussion though we have a different perspective
>> in using software.
>> I prefer to use GRASS, because it's an open source software while he
>> prefer to use
>> proprietary software. He believed that GRASS can't do some tasks that
>> proprietary softwares do.
>> He thought that GRASS is not mature enough to be used. He asked me some
>> prove that the results from GRASS is the same with proprietary software.
>> For me, it will be better if I bring actual comparison between GRASS and
>> proprietary software, though maybe it will take some time.
>> Is there any link or arguments to give an accurate explanation for such
>> kind of people?
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Firman Hadi,
>> Center for Remote Sensing - ITB
>> Labtek IXC, 3rd Floor
>> Jl. Ganesha No. 10
>> Bandung - INDONESIA
>> http://crs.itb.ac.id
>> Blog: http://jalmiburung.wordpress.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grassuser mailing list
>> grassuser@grass.itc.it
>> http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser
>>
>

8

Carlos, if it is not forbidden by the journal submission rules, could
you possibly send us a URL to the paper (in whatever format you have
available)?

I hope you don't get "spammed" with requests. :wink:

On Mon, 2007-07-09 at 13:02 +0200, Jan Hartmann wrote:

Carlos, is it possible to get a copy of your article? It is important in
"selling" GRASS and Open Source GIS in my University environment. That's
not easy, to say the least, so I can use any help I can get.

Jan

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
> This is it so far, but like I said, its _submitted_ I haven't received
> anything back from the reviewers yet....
>
> Steiner, S.S., Grohmann, C.H., 2007. A comparison between ArcGIS and
> GRASS-GIS in elaboration and manipulation of morphometric parameters.
> Submitted to Computers & Geosciences.

--
Brad Douglas <rez touchofmadness com> KB8UYR/6
Address: 37.493,-121.924 / WGS84 National Map Corps #TNMC-3785

9

Guys, thanks for the interest, but as I said, it is just _submitted_,
it's not accpeted, it's still in review. there's no url so far (and
for a few months), and it is unpublished material.
I will email my co-author (the first author) about this. I guess it
will be OK, then I send you guys a pdf.

cheers

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Brad Douglas <rez@touchofmadness.com> wrote:

Carlos, if it is not forbidden by the journal submission rules, could
you possibly send us a URL to the paper (in whatever format you have
available)?

I hope you don't get "spammed" with requests. :wink:

On Mon, 2007-07-09 at 13:02 +0200, Jan Hartmann wrote:
> Carlos, is it possible to get a copy of your article? It is important in
> "selling" GRASS and Open Source GIS in my University environment. That's
> not easy, to say the least, so I can use any help I can get.
>
> Jan
>
> Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
> > This is it so far, but like I said, its _submitted_ I haven't received
> > anything back from the reviewers yet....
> >
> > Steiner, S.S., Grohmann, C.H., 2007. A comparison between ArcGIS and
> > GRASS-GIS in elaboration and manipulation of morphometric parameters.
> > Submitted to Computers & Geosciences.

--
Brad Douglas <rez touchofmadness com> KB8UYR/6
Address: 37.493,-121.924 / WGS84 National Map Corps #TNMC-3785

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
              Carlos Henrique Grohmann - Guano
  Visiting Researcher at Kingston University London - UK
  Geologist M.Sc - Doctorate Student at IGc-USP - Brazil
Linux User #89721 - carlos dot grohmann at gmail dot com
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
_________________
"Good morning, doctors. I have taken the liberty of removing Windows
95 from my hard drive."
--The winning entry in a "What were HAL's first words" contest judged
by 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY creator Arthur C. Clarke

10

Hamish wrote:

corollary- what are the licensing costs to buy every proprietary toolbox
needed to match the features of a full GRASS install?
Can it be done for < US$10,000? <$50,000? <$100,000??

I would like to add an important aspect I am working on now: cluster computing. There is a big potential in parallellizing algorithms within GRASS, and that would really be unaffordable with commercial GIS-software. A Linux cluster nowadays doesn't cost anything any more, and with free software the possibilities for development are limitless.

Jan Hartmann

Dr. J. Hartmann
Department of Geography
University of Amsterdam

11

Brad Douglas wrote:

Carlos, if it is not forbidden by the journal submission rules, could
you possibly send us a URL to the paper (in whatever format you have
available)?

I hope you don't get "spammed" with requests. :wink:

That would be a touch of madness, wouldn't it :slight_smile:

Jan

12

On 09.07.2007 14:57, Jan Hartmann wrote:

I would like to add an important aspect I am working on now: cluster
computing. There is a big potential in parallellizing algorithms within
GRASS, and that would really be unaffordable with commercial
GIS-software. A Linux cluster nowadays doesn't cost anything any more,
and with free software the possibilities for development are limitless.

That would make an excellent topic for next year's Google Summer of
Code. To parallelisize the raster modules to begin with. Thanks for the
idea :smiley:

This year we got the most interest in task involving algorithms. I hope
this would also be a popular subject :slight_smile:

--Wolf

--

<:3 )---- Wolf Bergenheim ----( 8:>

13

Hm, I am just writing a proposal for a large German/Dutch project on historical mapping in the Euregio (Maastricht/Aachen/Liège region), in the order of €1000000. It will be hosted at SARA Computing Center of the University of Amsterdam, with 5 dedicated nodes within a large Linux cluster, and completely based on Open Source (MapServer, PostGIS, GDAL and PL/R). Until now, I had not thought of GRASS for this project, although I have been working with GRASS from the early nineties, as my project is essentially directed towards end-users, and as you probably know, it is horribly difficult to get this kind of people working with GRASS. Things are getting better nowadays with programs like QGis and the interactive interface, but it is still a long haul.

Technically and financially, it would be easy to extend the number of nodes to allow research on parallellizing Open Source, but I do not have the time and knowledge to coordinate it (my main interest and expertise is in historical cartography). I have been thinking of contracting the main developers of MapServer etc, whom I know reasonably well, to see if they could organise something along those lines, e.g. within the OsGEO communities. Again, the problem is not so much finance, but getting people who can invest their time and knowledge to formulate specific goals, and coordinate and guide the process so as to deliver concrete results over a period of (say) three years. This has to be organised in some formal way, as it concerns quite a lot of money. Any interest for this with the GRASS-developers?

Jan

Dr. J. Hartmann
Department of Geography
University of Amsterdam

Wolf Bergenheim wrote:

On 09.07.2007 14:57, Jan Hartmann wrote:

I would like to add an important aspect I am working on now: cluster
computing. There is a big potential in parallellizing algorithms within
GRASS, and that would really be unaffordable with commercial
GIS-software. A Linux cluster nowadays doesn't cost anything any more,
and with free software the possibilities for development are limitless.

That would make an excellent topic for next year's Google Summer of
Code. To parallelisize the raster modules to begin with. Thanks for the
idea :smiley:

This year we got the most interest in task involving algorithms. I hope
this would also be a popular subject :slight_smile:

--Wolf

14

Jan & others,

I am in the process of 'selling' GRASS GIS to a large number of GIS experts within my agency in the U.S. next week. I am preparing a presentation that focuses on our needs in hydrologic forecasting, which includes real-time data analysis and map production. At this point, my experience has been that anyone who has taken the time to give GRASS GIS a try, has been very impressed. In all of my discussions, I have not tried to say that GRASS can be a full replacement to, say, ArcGIS, but rather, to supplement ArcGIS. Part of my agencies' 'problem' is that our operational environment is Linux, which pretty much makes the use of ArcGIS a significant issue, not to mention the prohibitive cost of licensing to make GIS available to all potential users — up to 9 simultaneous users at each of approximately 140 separate locations around the U.S.

Regards,
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Hartmann <j.l.h.hartmann@uva.nl>
Date: Monday, July 9, 2007 7:02 am
Subject: Re: [GRASS-user] Scientific Comparison between GRASS and Proprietary Remote Sensing/GIS Software

Carlos, is it possible to get a copy of your article? It is
important in
"selling" GRASS and Open Source GIS in my University environment.
That's
not easy, to say the least, so I can use any help I can get.

Jan

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
> This is it so far, but like I said, its _submitted_ I haven't
received> anything back from the reviewers yet....
>
> Steiner, S.S., Grohmann, C.H., 2007. A comparison between ArcGIS and
> GRASS-GIS in elaboration and manipulation of morphometric
parameters.> Submitted to Computers & Geosciences.
>
> cheers
>
> Carlos
>
>
> On 7/9/07, Jan Hartmann <j.l.h.hartmann@uva.nl> wrote:
>> Hi Firman,
>>
>> Could you send us a reference to your paper?
>>
>> Jan Hartmann
>>
>> Dr. J. Hartmann
>> Department of Geography
>> University of Amsterdam
>>
>> Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
>> > Hello Firman,
>> >
>> > My colleague an I just submitted a paper about a comparison
between>> > GRASS and ArcGIS, using morphometric maps as a base. In
general terms,
>> > they both give similar results, except when there was an
interpolation>> > with clustered data (points clustered along
streamlines but with
>> > clusters far from each other). In this case, GRASS produced a
very>> > nice result, while ArcGIS made a really bad interpolation.
>> >
>> > Other the one hand, I guess some things are easier to do in some
>> > proprietary software, most of them have better map-producing
>> > capabilities than GRASS and GRASS lacks some more interactive
tools>> > (like interactive histogram stretching, color table
manipulation for
>> > vector maps etc).
>> >
>> > On the other hand, you can do things in GRASS you couldn't
even think
>> > about in proprietary GIS. Consider how powerful r.mapcalc is,
see the
>> > beauty of a NVIZ session (all my ArcGIS friends are impressed
with>> > NVIZ), or even how easy it is to adapt some piece of code
to suit your
>> > needs (I had to do that, I needed larger neighborhoods than
>> > r.neighbors default maximum size - 25 - so I just changed in
the code
>> > and recompiled).
>> >
>> > my two cents
>> >
>> > Carlos
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/9/07, Firman Hadi <firman.hadi@crs.itb.ac.id> wrote:
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> One week ago I had a discussion with someone who is expert in
remote>> >> sensing.
>> >> It was a really nice discussion though we have a different
perspective>> >> in using software.
>> >> I prefer to use GRASS, because it's an open source software
while he
>> >> prefer to use
>> >> proprietary software. He believed that GRASS can't do some
tasks that
>> >> proprietary softwares do.
>> >> He thought that GRASS is not mature enough to be used. He
asked me
>> some
>> >> prove that the results from GRASS is the same with
proprietary
>> software.
>> >> For me, it will be better if I bring actual comparison
between
>> GRASS and
>> >> proprietary software, though maybe it will take some time.
>> >> Is there any link or arguments to give an accurate
explanation for
>> such
>> >> kind of people?
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Firman Hadi,
>> >> Center for Remote Sensing - ITB
>> >> Labtek IXC, 3rd Floor
>> >> Jl. Ganesha No. 10
>> >> Bandung - INDONESIA
>> >> http://crs.itb.ac.id
>> >> Blog: http://jalmiburung.wordpress.com
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> grassuser mailing list
>> >> grassuser@grass.itc.it
>> >> http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

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15

Carlos,

I am very interested in your paper as well. One advantage to sending it out, is that you have a willing group of folks to provide you with additional feedback!

Regards,
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos \"Guâno\" Grohmann" <carlos.grohmann@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, July 9, 2007 7:32 am
Subject: Re: [GRASS-user] Scientific Comparison between GRASS and Proprietary Remote Sensing/GIS Software

Guys, thanks for the interest, but as I said, it is just _submitted_,
it's not accpeted, it's still in review. there's no url so far (and
for a few months), and it is unpublished material.
I will email my co-author (the first author) about this. I guess it
will be OK, then I send you guys a pdf.

cheers

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Brad Douglas <rez@touchofmadness.com> wrote:
> Carlos, if it is not forbidden by the journal submission rules,
could> you possibly send us a URL to the paper (in whatever format
you have
> available)?
>
> I hope you don't get "spammed" with requests. :wink:
>
> On Mon, 2007-07-09 at 13:02 +0200, Jan Hartmann wrote:
> > Carlos, is it possible to get a copy of your article? It is
important in
> > "selling" GRASS and Open Source GIS in my University
environment. That's
> > not easy, to say the least, so I can use any help I can get.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
> > > This is it so far, but like I said, its _submitted_ I haven't
received> > > anything back from the reviewers yet....
> > >
> > > Steiner, S.S., Grohmann, C.H., 2007. A comparison between
ArcGIS and
> > > GRASS-GIS in elaboration and manipulation of morphometric
parameters.> > > Submitted to Computers & Geosciences.
>
>
> --
> Brad Douglas <rez touchofmadness com> KB8UYR/6
> Address: 37.493,-121.924 / WGS84 National Map Corps #TNMC-3785
>
>

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
             Carlos Henrique Grohmann - Guano
Visiting Researcher at Kingston University London - UK
Geologist M.Sc - Doctorate Student at IGc-USP - Brazil
Linux User #89721 - carlos dot grohmann at gmail dot com
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
_________________
"Good morning, doctors. I have taken the liberty of removing Windows
95 from my hard drive."
--The winning entry in a "What were HAL's first words" contest judged
by 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY creator Arthur C. Clarke

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16

I must confess that I too am interested in reading this paper. I might
be doing the grass-half of a practical hands on raster analysis course
next spring.

--Wolf

On 09.07.2007 17:24, Thomas.Adams@noaa.gov wrote:

Carlos,

I am very interested in your paper as well. One advantage to sending it out, is that you have a willing group of folks to provide you with additional feedback!

Regards,
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos \"Guâno\" Grohmann" <carlos.grohmann@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, July 9, 2007 7:32 am
Subject: Re: [GRASS-user] Scientific Comparison between GRASS and Proprietary Remote Sensing/GIS Software

Guys, thanks for the interest, but as I said, it is just _submitted_,
it's not accpeted, it's still in review. there's no url so far (and
for a few months), and it is unpublished material.
I will email my co-author (the first author) about this. I guess it
will be OK, then I send you guys a pdf.

cheers

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Brad Douglas <rez@touchofmadness.com> wrote:

Carlos, if it is not forbidden by the journal submission rules,

could> you possibly send us a URL to the paper (in whatever format
you have

available)?

I hope you don't get "spammed" with requests. :wink:

On Mon, 2007-07-09 at 13:02 +0200, Jan Hartmann wrote:

Carlos, is it possible to get a copy of your article? It is

important in

"selling" GRASS and Open Source GIS in my University

environment. That's

not easy, to say the least, so I can use any help I can get.

Jan

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:

This is it so far, but like I said, its _submitted_ I haven't

received> > > anything back from the reviewers yet....

Steiner, S.S., Grohmann, C.H., 2007. A comparison between

ArcGIS and

GRASS-GIS in elaboration and manipulation of morphometric

parameters.> > > Submitted to Computers & Geosciences.

--
Brad Douglas <rez touchofmadness com> KB8UYR/6
Address: 37.493,-121.924 / WGS84 National Map Corps #TNMC-3785

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
             Carlos Henrique Grohmann - Guano
Visiting Researcher at Kingston University London - UK
Geologist M.Sc - Doctorate Student at IGc-USP - Brazil
Linux User #89721 - carlos dot grohmann at gmail dot com
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
_________________
"Good morning, doctors. I have taken the liberty of removing Windows
95 from my hard drive."
--The winning entry in a "What were HAL's first words" contest judged
by 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY creator Arthur C. Clarke

_______________________________________________
grassuser mailing list
grassuser@grass.itc.it
http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser

_______________________________________________
grassuser mailing list
grassuser@grass.itc.it
http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser

--

<:3 )---- Wolf Bergenheim ----( 8:>

17

I too and looking forward to this paper. I wonder if this sort of thing can be
bundled with the GRASS test suite to verify results across applications?

cheers,

Dylan

On Monday 09 July 2007 04:32, Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:

Guys, thanks for the interest, but as I said, it is just _submitted_,
it's not accpeted, it's still in review. there's no url so far (and
for a few months), and it is unpublished material.
I will email my co-author (the first author) about this. I guess it
will be OK, then I send you guys a pdf.

cheers

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Brad Douglas <rez@touchofmadness.com> wrote:
> Carlos, if it is not forbidden by the journal submission rules, could
> you possibly send us a URL to the paper (in whatever format you have
> available)?
>
> I hope you don't get "spammed" with requests. :wink:
>
> On Mon, 2007-07-09 at 13:02 +0200, Jan Hartmann wrote:
> > Carlos, is it possible to get a copy of your article? It is important
> > in "selling" GRASS and Open Source GIS in my University environment.
> > That's not easy, to say the least, so I can use any help I can get.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:
> > > This is it so far, but like I said, its _submitted_ I haven't
> > > received anything back from the reviewers yet....
> > >
> > > Steiner, S.S., Grohmann, C.H., 2007. A comparison between ArcGIS and
> > > GRASS-GIS in elaboration and manipulation of morphometric parameters.
> > > Submitted to Computers & Geosciences.
>
> --
> Brad Douglas <rez touchofmadness com> KB8UYR/6
> Address: 37.493,-121.924 / WGS84 National Map Corps #TNMC-3785

18

On Monday 09 July 2007 07:22, Thomas.Adams@noaa.gov wrote:

Jan & others,

I am in the process of 'selling' GRASS GIS to a large number of GIS experts
within my agency in the U.S. next week. I am preparing a presentation that
focuses on our needs in hydrologic forecasting, which includes real-time
data analysis and map production. At this point, my experience has been
that anyone who has taken the time to give GRASS GIS a try, has been very
impressed. In all of my discussions, I have not tried to say that GRASS can
be a full replacement to, say, ArcGIS, but rather, to supplement ArcGIS.
Part of my agencies' 'problem' is that our operational environment is
Linux, which pretty much makes the use of ArcGIS a significant issue, not
to mention the prohibitive cost of licensing to make GIS available to all
potential users — up to 9 simultaneous users at each of approximately 140
separate locations around the U.S.

Regards,
Tom

It is rather ironic to consider that GRASS was originally developed by the US
Army Corps of Engineers, then abandoned more or less. Since then it has
grown profoundly as Marcus and the others here have developed it far beyond
the constraints of the early raster system. Now we see governmental
departments gradually leaning more and more on Linux and FOSS software as
costs of proprietary software, operating systems, and hardware become more
critical.

JWDougherty

19

Hi Carlos.
Compliments for this job. Have you thought of preparing a sort of
shortened, "popular" version of your paper? I think this would be of
immense interest, and would not shadow (rather the contrary, in fact)
your scientific paper.
I, for myself, would be interested in translating it an publishing in
Italian.
All the best.
pc

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann ha scritto:

Guys, thanks for the interest, but as I said, it is just _submitted_,
it's not accpeted, it's still in review. there's no url so far (and
for a few months), and it is unpublished material.
I will email my co-author (the first author) about this. I guess it
will be OK, then I send you guys a pdf.

cheers

Carlos

--
Paolo Cavallini
http://www.faunalia.it/pc

20

Dylan Beaudette wrote:

I too and looking forward to this paper. I wonder if this sort of
thing can be bundled with the GRASS test suite to verify results
across applications?

Looking forward to this paper too. Another paper on comparison
of GRASS with other GIS software is available at. This was
presented at the GRASS 2004 conference in Bangkok.

http://www.j-geoinfo.net/Content/fulmar05/IJG_101-107.pdf

Cheers

Venka

cheers,

Dylan

On Monday 09 July 2007 04:32, Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:

Guys, thanks for the interest, but as I said, it is just
_submitted_, it's not accpeted, it's still in review. there's no
url so far (and for a few months), and it is unpublished material. I will email my co-author (the first author) about this. I guess it
will be OK, then I send you guys a pdf.

cheers

Carlos

On 7/9/07, Brad Douglas <rez@touchofmadness.com> wrote:

Carlos, if it is not forbidden by the journal submission rules,
could you possibly send us a URL to the paper (in whatever format
you have available)?

I hope you don't get "spammed" with requests. :wink:

On Mon, 2007-07-09 at 13:02 +0200, Jan Hartmann wrote:

Carlos, is it possible to get a copy of your article? It is
important in "selling" GRASS and Open Source GIS in my
University environment. That's not easy, to say the least, so I
can use any help I can get.

Jan

Carlos "Guâno" Grohmann wrote:

This is it so far, but like I said, its _submitted_ I haven't
received anything back from the reviewers yet....

Steiner, S.S., Grohmann, C.H., 2007. A comparison between
ArcGIS and GRASS-GIS in elaboration and manipulation of
morphometric parameters. Submitted to Computers &
Geosciences.

-- Brad Douglas <rez touchofmadness com>
KB8UYR/6 Address: 37.493,-121.924 / WGS84 National Map Corps
#TNMC-3785

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