[GRASSLIST:7251] Brazilian Forum for GRASS

Hello All,

Yesterday we started a Forum in Brazilian Portuguese for some people
that don't know English and are looking for support. It doesn't have
posts, but the room is open.

(the forum is here)
http://poseidon.furg.br/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&Itemid=62&func=showcat&catid=11

Today a feel a lot of interested people on GRASS here in Brazil, but
the English language is a really big barrier for most of then. So,
translations are really important.

Cheers,
--
Christian dos Santos Ferreira
Oceanographer. Msc.
Lab. of Fisheries Research and Hydroacustics
Federal University of Rio Grande (FURG)
Rio Grande - RS - Brazil
Tel +55 (53) 2336528
Website: http://poseidon.furg.br

Yesterday we started a Forum in Brazilian Portuguese for some people
that don't know English and are looking for support. It doesn't have
posts, but the room is open.

Already posted there.

Maybe we should start the GUG-Br ?? Grass Users Group-Brasil?
--
Paulo Marcondes
zpaulomarcondesz at gmail period comz
my email has no z

we both have translated a general reference guide for
grass commands

Where it is? Maybe you should send it to Markus, in order to add it to
the support section of grass.itc.it.
I am also thinking about a sitewide translation after the grass translation.
I feel people in Brasil are very scared by foreign languages, so as I
am not, I could help a lot putting my knowledge of the language to
help those who have difficulties understanding english.
--
Paulo Marcondes
zpaulomarcondesz at gmail period comz
my email has no z

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Paulo Marcondes wrote:

> we both have translated a general reference guide for
> grass commands

Where it is? Maybe you should send it to Markus, in order to add it to
the support section of grass.itc.it.
I am also thinking about a sitewide translation after the grass translation.
I feel people in Brasil are very scared by foreign languages, so as I
am not, I could help a lot putting my knowledge of the language to
help those who have difficulties understanding english.

Paulo, Samuel:

Another important point to remember is that feedback to the GRASS
community at large is valuable. If users on this forum raise questions of
general concern, please do pass the questions or ideas on the the main
list(s) as appropriate - without this communication, open source loses
some of the value of many eyes looking at the same problem at the same
time. Even though users may be unsure about posting in English, their
insights and questions are really needed for the health of our community!

--
Roger Bivand
Economic Geography Section, Department of Economics, Norwegian School of
Economics and Business Administration, Helleveien 30, N-5045 Bergen,
Norway. voice: +47 55 95 93 55; fax +47 55 95 95 43
e-mail: Roger.Bivand@nhh.no

Roger,

Well, I think that Paulo is not very right saying:

> I feel people in Brasil are very scared by foreign languages, so as I
> am not, I could help a lot putting my knowledge of the language to
> help those who have difficulties understanding english.

Many people (in Brazil) just don't have money to pay classes for study
another language. It's a social problem, not just fear.

I and some other translators here in Brazil just want to bring GRASS
for this people, not create a parallel community and forget foreign
people. Ok?

Also, my project (Poseidon Linux) website is holding a Forum to bring
this "scared" people to GRASS, and not to Arcview like most people do
here (using a pirated copy!!).

I think that some of this people will naturally reach this mailing
list as they interest for GRASS grows.

Cheers,

--
Christian dos Santos Ferreira
Oceanographer. Msc.
Lab. of Fisheries Research and Hydroacustics
Federal University of Rio Grande (FURG)
Rio Grande - RS - Brazil
Tel +55 (53) 2336528
Website: http://poseidon.furg.br

2005/6/21, Christian Ferreira <christian.grass@gmail.com>:

Roger,

Well, I think that Paulo is not very right saying:

> > I feel people in Brasil are very scared by foreign languages, so as I
> > am not, I could help a lot putting my knowledge of the language to
> > help those who have difficulties understanding english.

Many people (in Brazil) just don't have money to pay classes for study
another language. It's a social problem, not just fear.

Well, I forgot mentioning that.
But I had lots of experience with colleagues from college (even some
are professors now) that, even being from middle classes, didn't show
any interest in learning a foreign language. That was pictured as
fear.
--
Paulo Marcondes
zpaulomarcondesz at gmail period comz
my email has no z

Christian:

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Christian Ferreira wrote:

Roger,

Well, I think that Paulo is not very right saying:

> > I feel people in Brasil are very scared by foreign languages, so as I
> > am not, I could help a lot putting my knowledge of the language to
> > help those who have difficulties understanding english.

Many people (in Brazil) just don't have money to pay classes for study
another language. It's a social problem, not just fear.

I and some other translators here in Brazil just want to bring GRASS
for this people, not create a parallel community and forget foreign
people. Ok?

Sorry, part of this exchange left the list, now it's back. I'm not sure
that unwillingness to express opinions/views/needs in foreign languages is
just a social problem, although that is a big part of it. It is also about
being willing to take part, and some people just don't feel able, in their
native tongue or in a foreign one.

But there are many examples of very good observations being made by people
who are not happy to use English on a list like this. My concern was that
the larger GRASS community should be able to benefit from your valuable
initiative, and this depends on intermediators, who feel able to pass on
information both ways. I'm concerned that valuable user experience may
stay within local fora (not just this case, other user groups face the
same question).

I'm concerned because the open source movement crucially depends on
parallel debugging - if enough people are looking at the same problem at
the same time, and sharing their observations, it will be solved. Nobody
has a monopoly of knowledge, but enough observations of odd things
happening in different settings will lead to somebody realising - aha,
it's the assumption in line 573 of thatfile.c. Without lots of
intercommunicating users, this may not work so well. So, if you like, in
using open sourrce software, we have an unwritten obligation to make our
voices heard, up to and including contributing patches, documentation, and
opening discussion fora.

So, not doubts, just a reflection about critical mass. We've seen an
example today of how good this can be, contribution of internationalised
messages in an Indian language. GRASS, and particularly GRASS 6, needs
both users and contributors, and certainly, confidence in or access to
English as a medium is not the main issue. But I would argue that
communication of important information to the community at large does
matter, otherwise we may not notice that import of a particular format of
raster data, for example, systematically shifts by one cell, if there is
just one message in each language forum. Someone (who?) needs to watch
several, and pass on useful reports of problems. No more than that, but
vital for open source software.

Roger

Also, my project (Poseidon Linux) website is holding a Forum to bring
this "scared" people to GRASS, and not to Arcview like most people do
here (using a pirated copy!!).

I think that some of this people will naturally reach this mailing
list as they interest for GRASS grows.

Cheers,

--
Roger Bivand
Economic Geography Section, Department of Economics, Norwegian School of
Economics and Business Administration, Helleveien 30, N-5045 Bergen,
Norway. voice: +47 55 95 93 55; fax +47 55 95 95 43
e-mail: Roger.Bivand@nhh.no

2005/6/21, Roger Bivand <Roger.Bivand@nhh.no>:

<snip>

But there are many examples of very good observations being made by people
who are not happy to use English on a list like this. My concern was that

<snip>

just one message in each language forum. Someone (who?) needs to watch
several, and pass on useful reports of problems. No more than that, but
vital for open source software.

Thanks for the good points on free software, Roger.
Each day I became more enamoured with the idea, and less prone to
falling to the dark side.
--
Paulo Marcondes
zpaulomarcondesz at gmail period comz
my email has no z