[GRASSLIST:8881] Off Topic (Somewhat): Most commonly supported Linux Distro for Gr ass usage?

GRASS GRASS user
,
1

This is somewhat off-topic, I apologize. I am seriously considering
partitioning my hard drive to be able to run Linux on my workstation. Can
anyone who has done this recommend the 'best' method (i.e., least likely to
destroy my hard drive) of doing this? Partition Magic seems to get high
scores when Googled. But I would prefer using an open-source tool for doing
this, I'm just apprehensive about software stability.

Secondly, I was wondering what flavor of Linux is (I hate using the word
best, because everyone has their own preferences, not trying to start a
flame war) optimal for using Grass. I should rephrase that - which Linux
flavor is the most supported, if that question even makes sense. Or, which
version do the developers and other old hands use?

I want to be able to do away with Cygwin altogether and be able to
download/compile the latest cvs releases. Aside from trying out the latest
and greatest, I want to help out with some Grass documentation (most likely
man pages - am I crazy ;^) ? ), and to do this I'll need to have the latest
programs. I know from reading the messages in this list that there have been
many improvements made since Sept 2, the date of my Cygwin binary.
Additionally, I want to be able to utilize the full potential of QGIS (Grass
plugins don't exist on windows version of QGIS), so it only makes sense to
use the OS with the more robust tools. And it just would be really
refreshing to get out from under the M$ thumb.

I'm aware that before partitioning I need to backup all my files - we have a
1TB drive for this - and I've been tarring and zipping for about a week now.
Tedious, but necessary. I will probably try out partitioning my home PC
first (as I don't really have too much worth losing on it) as a trial run
before attempting my work PC.

Any and all comments and suggestions are most welcome.

Regards,

~ Eric.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Eric Patton

Technologist, Geo-Spatial Data Services
Geological Survey of Canada (Atlantic)
Natural Resources Canada
Bedford Institute of Oceanography
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada B2Y 4A2

Postal address: P.O. Box 1006
Courier address: 1 Challenger Drive

Telephone: (902)426-7732
Facsimile: (902)426-4104
E-mail: epatton@NRCan.gc.ca

2

2005/11/4, Patton, Eric <epatton@nrcan.gc.ca>:

I am seriously considering
partitioning my hard drive to be able to run Linux on my workstation.

Good for you. welcome.

Can anyone who has done this recommend the 'best' method (i.e., least likely to
destroy my hard drive) of doing this? Partition Magic seems to get high
scores when Googled. But I would prefer using an open-source tool for doing
this, I'm just apprehensive about software stability.

I've been reading comments from people who had done this lately, and
they seem to be using FIPS or GNU Parted.
I've not used any one of those.

which Linux
flavor is the most supported, if that question even makes sense. Or, which
version do the developers and other old hands use?

This is the kind of question that tends to start a flamewar...So, I
will raise my shields and wait for the worst, hehe...

I want to be able to do away with Cygwin altogether and be able to
download/compile the latest cvs releases. Aside from trying out the latest
and greatest, I want to help out with some Grass documentation (most likely
man pages - am I crazy ;^) ? ), and to do this I'll need to have the latest
programs. I know from reading the messages in this list that there have been
many improvements made since Sept 2, the date of my Cygwin binary.

So, if want to start man writing, I should recommend you go the Debian way.
The current stable release is just some months old, and the testing
version (which I am using) is pretty stable. Not the most current
packages though. Hamish may be able to explain his setup. If I recall
right he is the grass package maintainer for Debian.

Err, well , I said all thas because, per Debian policy, all packages
_must_ provide man pages, so there is already a good foundation.
And if allow a sugestion, write your docs SGML, so they can be
compiled to whatever formats the user sees best.

I'm aware that before partitioning I need to backup all my files - we have a
1TB drive for this - and I've been tarring and zipping for about a week now.
Tedious, but necessary. I will probably try out partitioning my home PC
first (as I don't really have too much worth losing on it) as a trial run
before attempting my work PC.

If you don't mind installing windows and apps all over again, then I
sould recommend you to partition an empty drive. Then install. Be sure
to create a FAT32 partition, so you can exchange data from Linux to
Windows with ease. I heard the NTFS write support works, but that is
marked as dangerous in the kernel options.

The last time I installed my system was from an empty drive, due to
hard disk failure. Had no backup.

Just my 0.02
--
Paulo Marcondes
http://rj.debianbrasil.org

3

Eric,

I would like to second the Debian suggestion. I have had great luck both with installing pre-compiled binaries for Debian, and compiling the latest CVS from source. If you want a real quick install I would recommend Ubuntu or Kubuntu, as they are based on Debian, and self-configuring.

Cheers,

Dylan

On Nov 4, 2005, at 4:09 AM, Patton, Eric wrote:

This is somewhat off-topic, I apologize. I am seriously considering
partitioning my hard drive to be able to run Linux on my workstation. Can
anyone who has done this recommend the 'best' method (i.e., least likely to
destroy my hard drive) of doing this? Partition Magic seems to get high
scores when Googled. But I would prefer using an open-source tool for doing
this, I'm just apprehensive about software stability.

Secondly, I was wondering what flavor of Linux is (I hate using the word
best, because everyone has their own preferences, not trying to start a
flame war) optimal for using Grass. I should rephrase that - which Linux
flavor is the most supported, if that question even makes sense. Or, which
version do the developers and other old hands use?

I want to be able to do away with Cygwin altogether and be able to
download/compile the latest cvs releases. Aside from trying out the latest
and greatest, I want to help out with some Grass documentation (most likely
man pages - am I crazy ;^) ? ), and to do this I'll need to have the latest
programs. I know from reading the messages in this list that there have been
many improvements made since Sept 2, the date of my Cygwin binary.
Additionally, I want to be able to utilize the full potential of QGIS (Grass
plugins don't exist on windows version of QGIS), so it only makes sense to
use the OS with the more robust tools. And it just would be really
refreshing to get out from under the M$ thumb.

I'm aware that before partitioning I need to backup all my files - we have a
1TB drive for this - and I've been tarring and zipping for about a week now.
Tedious, but necessary. I will probably try out partitioning my home PC
first (as I don't really have too much worth losing on it) as a trial run
before attempting my work PC.

Any and all comments and suggestions are most welcome.

Regards,

~ Eric.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Eric Patton

Technologist, Geo-Spatial Data Services
Geological Survey of Canada (Atlantic)
Natural Resources Canada
Bedford Institute of Oceanography
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada B2Y 4A2

Postal address: P.O. Box 1006
Courier address: 1 Challenger Drive

Telephone: (902)426-7732
Facsimile: (902)426-4104
E-mail: epatton@NRCan.gc.ca

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soils and Biogeochemistry Graduate Group
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

4

Eric,

I agree with Dylan absolutely. And feel, I should take up the cudgels for
Debian. It was my first Linux Distro and I had no difficulties to install it
at all. I mention that just because everybody keeps saying its good but hard
to install.
My first GRASS was from Debian binaries. But after getting all the developer
packages via apt-get you wont have any problems with dependencies and its no
hassle to install grass from cvs then.

have fun,
  robert

Dylan Beaudette wrote:

Eric,

I would like to second the Debian suggestion. I have had great luck
both with installing pre-compiled binaries for Debian, and compiling
the latest CVS from source. If you want a real quick install I would
recommend Ubuntu or Kubuntu, as they are based on Debian, and
self-configuring.

Cheers,

Dylan

On Nov 4, 2005, at 4:09 AM, Patton, Eric wrote:
> This is somewhat off-topic, I apologize. I am seriously considering
> partitioning my hard drive to be able to run Linux on my workstation.
> Can
> anyone who has done this recommend the 'best' method (i.e., least
> likely to
> destroy my hard drive) of doing this? Partition Magic seems to get high
> scores when Googled. But I would prefer using an open-source tool for
> doing
> this, I'm just apprehensive about software stability.
>
> Secondly, I was wondering what flavor of Linux is (I hate using the
> word
> best, because everyone has their own preferences, not trying to start a
> flame war) optimal for using Grass. I should rephrase that - which
> Linux
> flavor is the most supported, if that question even makes sense. Or,
> which
> version do the developers and other old hands use?
>
> I want to be able to do away with Cygwin altogether and be able to
> download/compile the latest cvs releases. Aside from trying out the
> latest
> and greatest, I want to help out with some Grass documentation (most
> likely
> man pages - am I crazy ;^) ? ), and to do this I'll need to have the
> latest
> programs. I know from reading the messages in this list that there
> have been
> many improvements made since Sept 2, the date of my Cygwin binary.
> Additionally, I want to be able to utilize the full potential of QGIS
> (Grass
> plugins don't exist on windows version of QGIS), so it only makes
> sense to
> use the OS with the more robust tools. And it just would be really
> refreshing to get out from under the M$ thumb.
>
> I'm aware that before partitioning I need to backup all my files - we
> have a
> 1TB drive for this - and I've been tarring and zipping for about a
> week now.
> Tedious, but necessary. I will probably try out partitioning my home PC
> first (as I don't really have too much worth losing on it) as a trial
> run
> before attempting my work PC.
>
> Any and all comments and suggestions are most welcome.
>
> Regards,
>
> ~ Eric.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Eric Patton
>
> Technologist, Geo-Spatial Data Services
> Geological Survey of Canada (Atlantic)
> Natural Resources Canada
> Bedford Institute of Oceanography
> Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada B2Y 4A2
>
> Postal address: P.O. Box 1006
> Courier address: 1 Challenger Drive
>
> Telephone: (902)426-7732
> Facsimile: (902)426-4104
> E-mail: epatton@NRCan.gc.ca

--
Dylan Beaudette
Soils and Biogeochemistry Graduate Group
University of California at Davis
530.754.7341

--
____________________________________

  Robert Nuske
  Institute for Forest Biometrics &
  Applied Computer Science
  Buesgenweg 4
  37077 Goettingen
  GERMANY
  
  Phone: +49-551-39-2362
  Fax : +49-551-39-3465

5

On Fri, 2005-11-04 at 08:09 -0400, Patton, Eric wrote:

Secondly, I was wondering what flavor of Linux is (I hate using the word
best, because everyone has their own preferences, not trying to start a
flame war) optimal for using Grass. I should rephrase that - which Linux
flavor is the most supported, if that question even makes sense. Or, which
version do the developers and other old hands use?

Again, as others have said, I do not intend to get into a flame war here
either but have some experience which is worthwhile.

I have been using Gentoo Linux for quite some time. The downside to
Gentoo is that is ALL (yes, every bit of it) compiled from source. So
the base install takes a bit longer than some/most. But, once it is
compiled it is fully optimized for your hardware.

Installing GRASS has been very easy on this distro as has GDAL and all
of the other supporting packages. Once install command can get all that
is needed to get GRASS up and running.

As to CVS, once GRASS has been installed all requirements will be there.
Then it is just a matter of downloading the CVS sources and running the
proper commands to compile/install it.

My $0.02.
--

--------------------------
Ed Davison
Sr. Systems Analyst
McCombs School of Business
512-232-6620 voice

6

Well, like many told before, I prefer (and use) Debian too.

Consider using Debian install cd only for a empty drive install or use GNU Parted or Partition Magic (to resize an used partition with Windows) before installing it.

BTW: Backup is always good :slight_smile:

Also, there is SuSE, Mandriva or Fedora that are more friendly to install/configure for a new Linux user.

But Debian (with Debian GIS repository) makes installing and updating packages very easy. That’s why I dropped dozen of distros that I used in the last 4 years for stay only on Debian.

That’s my point of view.

Cheers,

–
Christian dos Santos Ferreira
Oceanographer. Msc.
Lab. of Fisheries Research and Hydroacustics
Federal University of Rio Grande (FURG)
Rio Grande - RS - Brazil
Tel +55 (53) 32336528
Website: http://poseidon.furg.br

7

On 11/4/05, Patton, Eric <epatton@nrcan.gc.ca> wrote:

This is somewhat off-topic, I apologize. I am seriously considering
partitioning my hard drive to be able to run Linux on my workstation. Can
anyone who has done this recommend the 'best' method (i.e., least likely to
destroy my hard drive) of doing this? Partition Magic seems to get high
scores when Googled. But I would prefer using an open-source tool for doing
this, I'm just apprehensive about software stability.

Have you considered VMWare? It would allow you to run Linux inside a
virtual machine. It dynamicially resizes its virtual disks, so you
don't have to figure out a partition size in advance. And it allows
network communication between the virtual machine and the host
machine. So your data can stay on an NTFS partition (of FAT) and you
mount that drive in your Linux machine. VMware is very stable. Only
down side is that it's a bit spendy.

Rich

--
Richard Greenwood
richard.greenwood@gmail.com
www.greenwoodmap.com

8

> I am seriously considering
> partitioning my hard drive to be able to run Linux on my
> workstation.
>
> Can anyone who has done this recommend the 'best' method (i.e.,
> least likely to destroy my hard drive) of doing this? Partition
> Magic seems to get high scores when Googled. But I would prefer
> using an open-source tool for doing this, I'm just apprehensive
> about software stability.

New hard drives are cheap, you can unplug your Windows one while you
play around with the new Linux partitions without fear of messing things
up too badly. Probably best to have the Windows disk plugged in when you
do your proper install so it auto detects a dual boot setup for you.

Personnaly I like cfdisk run from a knoppix bootable CD for
partitioning, even on a system which will only be running windows.
Pretty much any modern linux distribution will come with a very usable
partition tool built in. Often (& usually IMO) the low level open source
software will be of higher quality and stability than 3rd party
commercial windows software.. even the official MS provided stuff...
the caveat is that it generally assumes you know what you are doing and
doesn't give you as many safety nets.

> which Linux
> flavor is the most supported, if that question even makes sense. Or,
> which version do the developers and other old hands use?

All of the major ones should be fine. Check on the downloads page for
which ones have 6.0.1 packages already made, that will give you an
indication of what is popularly used. Mind the versions.

Others have mentioned Gentoo and Debian, neither of which is targeted at
newcomers. Dylan mentioned Ubuntu, which is (simplisticly put) Debian
built to be user friendly while still taking advantage of Debian's great
infrastructure. Installing GRASS on Debian & Debian derivatives is
simple: "apt-get install grass", but it may be just as easy on other
systems. Linux is free, so try one and if you don't like it try another
until you find something you like.

> I want to be able to do away with Cygwin altogether and be able to
> download/compile the latest cvs releases.

Well then which ever distro you use will need some level of nitty
gritty which levels the distro playing field a bit...

So, if want to start man writing, I should recommend you go the Debian
way. The current stable release is just some months old, and the
testing version (which I am using) is pretty stable. Not the most
current packages though. Hamish may be able to explain his setup. If I
recall right he is the grass package maintainer for Debian.

I am not the Debian maintainer. Steve Halasz and Francesco Lovergine are
responsible for the Debian package, but a number of other DebianGIS
folks help out too. DebianGIS will for the near future be backporting
some important packages for Debian/Stable (GRASS, QGIS, etc..) which
mitigates the "packages are too old" issue. I'm a big fan, but Debian
may not be for everyone..
http://packages.debian.org/grass
http://pkg-grass.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl

good luck,
Hamish

9

Hi,

if You can, do NOT use VMWare on windows to run Linux. I'm running
Linux on VMWare on Windows and it is not a pleasure. From windows
Linux gets all win problems - lockups on high disk load etc. You will
get bad impression about Linux, so better run pure Linux or even
VMWare/Wine inside Linux for Windows :wink:

NTFS is safe writable *if you don't change original file size*! You
will not be able to create new files or append to old ones. NTFS is
safe readable - You can mount win disk and read all files and create
small FAT32 partition for data exchange with windows.

I want to thank Ed Davison for all good words about GRASS on Gentoo.
Yeah, that was me, who initially brought GRASS 5.7 with all its
requirements to Gentoo :slight_smile:

<flamme> If we talk about distributions - first set your priorities -
to learn GNU/Linux or to be dumb user. If You want to learn GNU/Linux,
I suggest some "hard" distros - Slackware, Gentoo. Its damn hard in
beginning, but then in GNU/Linux you feel like fish in water. If You
want to be simple user - K/Ubuntu (Debian based). If Debian packages
are too old - you can always fetch fresh CVS version and compile
yourself. </flamme>

Sorry for my verbal flood.
WBR
Maris.

2005/11/5, Richard Greenwood <richard.greenwood@gmail.com>:

On 11/4/05, Patton, Eric <epatton@nrcan.gc.ca> wrote:
> This is somewhat off-topic, I apologize. I am seriously considering
> partitioning my hard drive to be able to run Linux on my workstation. Can
> anyone who has done this recommend the 'best' method (i.e., least likely to
> destroy my hard drive) of doing this? Partition Magic seems to get high
> scores when Googled. But I would prefer using an open-source tool for doing
> this, I'm just apprehensive about software stability.

Have you considered VMWare? It would allow you to run Linux inside a
virtual machine. It dynamicially resizes its virtual disks, so you
don't have to figure out a partition size in advance. And it allows
network communication between the virtual machine and the host
machine. So your data can stay on an NTFS partition (of FAT) and you
mount that drive in your Linux machine. VMware is very stable. Only
down side is that it's a bit spendy.

Rich

--
Richard Greenwood
richard.greenwood@gmail.com
www.greenwoodmap.com