[Marketing] [Board] Micro payments

Committees Marketing
1

On 09/05/13 06:34, Daniel Morissette wrote:

On 13-05-08 4:19 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:

Daniel,
I've added the following to the OSGeo board agenda:
* discuss micro-payments. Marketing committee wants to cover ~ $50 to
$500 payments to ~ 100 osgeo events/year.

(Current issue is that we pay $30 per transaction, and there is possibly
an issue with the amount of time required for our volunteers to issue
100 payments).

This might be a question for your new accountant?

I don't really see this as an accountant question as the accountant is mostly there to record the transactions in the books, produce financial statements, help with filing taxes, etc. Even if we outsource our accounting, the tasks of invoicing of sponsors, payments of suppliers, signing authority for dealing with the bank, etc, would remain with the treasurer. An accountant could maybe advise on a bank with cheaper rates, but I didn't think we should be outsourcing the management of the bank account.

On the topic of micro-payments, my experience is that wire payments between countries always end up with a 10$ minimum charge added on top of the local bank's charge for accepting the transaction, so I simply think that wires are not the way to go for micro-payments. If someone has a different experience then please speak up.

Maybe paypal would be a better alternative?

But before we even start talking about micro-payments, as a board member I am not personally convinced of the value of supporting ~100 events with a stipend to have them print DVDs locally. We may be better choose our battles and support a smaller number of key events where the DVDs will have a greater impact.

My 0.02$

Daniel, I acknowledge your statement that the treasurer (rather than accountant) is best to work out payments.

I agree with your suggestion about paypal being a viable payment vehicle.

Regarding whether we limit OSGeo support to big FOSS4G events only, or we also support emerging 1 day local events and FOSS4g steams within bigger conferences, I'd argue that the smaller events find it harder to get their hands on money, would benefit more from a little injection of financial support, and are often reaching out and breaking into new communities.

For reference, you might want to assess which of the 45 OSGeo related events from 2012 would be deserving of sponsorship, and which you'd say no to.
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History

--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com

2

On 13-05-08 5:03 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:

Regarding whether we limit OSGeo support to big FOSS4G events only, or
we also support emerging 1 day local events and FOSS4g steams within
bigger conferences, I'd argue that the smaller events find it harder to
get their hands on money, would benefit more from a little injection of
financial support, and are often reaching out and breaking into new
communities.

For reference, you might want to assess which of the 45 OSGeo related
events from 2012 would be deserving of sponsorship, and which you'd say
no to.
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History

Hi Cameron,

I have to admit that you caught me off-guard, the list is more impressive than I thought before reviewing it. :slight_smile:

I still find that having to deal with funding DVDs for so many events can be an issue. It is not just about processing micro-payments, you also need to collect and archive proofs that the expense you are reimbursing is legitimate (i.e. receipts) for OSGeo's accounting. I have seen how complicated this can be with just the Local chapter starter kits, imagine doing this for ~100 DVD print runs all around the world.

--
Daniel Morissette
http://www.mapgears.com/
Provider of Professional MapServer Support since 2000

3

Bob,
I've been distracted and dropped the ball on this thread. I'm back on it now.

What I meant to say a few weeks back is thanks for your offer. It would be great if you could do some research into printing/shipping options and provide us with a recommendation.

On 9/05/2013 11:05 AM, Bob Basques wrote:

All,

I often wondered about why these weren't just all run off at once and shipped out to the different events as needed. first come, first serve sort of idea. Easier to mange too, reserve some amount for pressing, some amount for shipping, and that's it for the funding cycle (unless more funding comes along).

When you are to factor in all this charge back handling stuff it starts to get real expensive overhead wise. Even if you went the route of having regional printings, I would bet it would still be cheaper than sending the money out to each group and having them press their own items.

I could find a local entity here that might be in a poistion to handle this type of thing. . .

Anyway, just food for thought.

bobb

Hi Cameron,

I have to admit that you caught me off-guard, the list is more impressive than I thought before reviewing it. :slight_smile:

I still find that having to deal with funding DVDs for so many events can be an issue. It is not just about processing micro-payments, you also need to collect and archive proofs that the expense you are reimbursing is legitimate (i.e. receipts) for OSGeo's accounting. I have seen how complicated this can be with just the Local chapter starter kits, imagine doing this for ~100 DVD print runs all around the world.

_______________________________________________
Board mailing list
Board@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com

4

All,

As suggested by Cameron, re-posting this discussion here (sorry if you are on the BAORD list as well :c)

I distilled this down somewhat to the pertinent info, but if you want, you can go look at the original thread on the BOARD list to see everything here:

http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Micro-payments-td5052181.html.

This thread started out as a reply to a posting by Cameron that commented on the overhead related to expenses for making the Live DVD into real live DVD for handout at conferences and such. I thought there might be some room to make the money go farther by consolidating the process somewhat and make it into a OSGeo driven one. Read on for more info.

Bobb

···

Bob, you have done some good research here.
Would you mind sharing on the marketing email list so the others with an opinion on this can contribute.

On 15/06/13 06:36, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) wrote:

Cameron,

This is the local outfit I’ve used in the past for the DVD printing:

http://www.quickturnduplication.com/html/pricing.php

We’ve only done short runs of one hundred at a time, so no breaks available money wise, but larger orders have some room to move the numbers down.

Our last run for 100 ended up at $140. This included the color DVD and the printed insert. We supplied the Jewel cases and did the packing. It would be slightly more if they did everything, around $160

I thought their USB prices were a little high, with the loading part added on, but after making them ourselves for our GeoMoose classes, I can see that it does take some time. There are also some problems with differences between hardware types that I did not know existed, which introduces some interesting extra work.

I just got a quote back from them for $1.50 per to load 8gb USB sticks. They sell them for $8-$11 each(high??)in different styles., but sounded like they were ok with using ours if we bought our own in the door. They also liked the idea of rewriting older versions for use as the new version when the ISO changes.

I had an additional thought here related to distribution channels. We could add these as a product to our (SG) online store as an alternate method for distribution, we would need to add some sort of overhead multiplier, but it wouldn’t be much.

These guys were fine with doing a test run and checking the operation before the regular printing progressed, and they are local to our area.

Bobb

On 9/05/2013 11:05 AM, Bob Basques wrote:

All,

I often wondered about why these weren’t just all run off at once and shipped out to the different events as needed. first come, first serve sort of idea. Easier to mange too, reserve some amount for pressing, some amount for shipping, and that’s it for the funding cycle (unless more funding comes along).

When you are to factor in all this charge back handling stuff it starts to get real expensive overhead wise. Even if you went the route of having regional printings, I would bet it would still be cheaper than sending the money out to each group and having them press their own items.

I could find a local entity here that might be in a poistion to handle this type of thing. . .

Anyway, just food for thought.

bobb

Hi Cameron,

I have to admit that you caught me off-guard, the list is more impressive than I thought before reviewing it. :slight_smile:

I still find that having to deal with funding DVDs for so many events can be an issue. It is not just about processing micro-payments, you also need to collect and archive proofs that the expense you are reimbursing is legitimate (i.e. receipts) for OSGeo’s accounting. I have seen how complicated this can be with just the Local chapter starter kits, imagine doing this for ~100 DVD print runs all around the world.

5

Bob,
I still believe that to successfully set up a DVD printing pipeline with one printer, which distributes OSGeo-Live DVDs around the world, we need someone to step up and volunteer to coordinate it.
Are you, or someone else volunteering to take on this role?

The alternative (re my micro payment suggestion) is that someone from each conference takes the responsibility of organising to print DVD/USB/posters/fliers for their event, in line with whatever process we put in place, and the limit of OSGeo volunteer involvement is approving and then paying. I'm prepared to write up such a process, and review/approve/reject applications for funds, which I see as less effort.

Note, we currently have a ($30?) processing fee for transactions. I think we can set up a paypal account which can make micro-payments for a few percent of a (few hundred dollar) transaction.

On 19/06/2013 12:36 AM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) wrote:

All,

As suggested by Cameron, re-posting this discussion here (sorry if you are on the BAORD list as well :c)

I distilled this down somewhat to the pertinent info, but if you want, you can go look at the original thread on the BOARD list to see everything here:

http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Micro-payments-td5052181.html.

This thread started out as a reply to a posting by Cameron that commented on the overhead related to expenses for making the Live DVD into real live DVD for handout at conferences and such. I thought there might be some room to make the money go farther by consolidating the process somewhat and make it into a OSGeo driven one. Read on for more info.

Bobb

Bob, you have done some good research here.
Would you mind sharing on the marketing email list so the others with an opinion on this can contribute.

On 15/06/13 06:36, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) wrote:

    Cameron,

    This is the local outfit I've used in the past for the DVD printing:

    http://www.quickturnduplication.com/html/pricing.php

    We've only done short runs of one hundred at a time, so no breaks
    available money wise, but larger orders have some room to move the
    numbers down.

    Our last run for 100 ended up at $140. This included the color
    DVD and the printed insert. We supplied the Jewel cases and did
    the packing. It would be slightly more if they did everything,
    around $160

    I thought their USB prices were a little high, with the loading
    part added on, but after making them ourselves for our GeoMoose
    classes, I can see that it does take some time. There are also
    some problems with differences between hardware types that I did
    not know existed, which introduces some interesting extra work.

    I just got a quote back from them for $1.50 per to load 8gb USB
    sticks. They sell them for $8-$11 each(high??)in different
    styles., but sounded like they were ok with using ours if we
    bought our own in the door. They also liked the idea of rewriting
    older versions for use as the new version when the ISO changes.

    I had an additional thought here related to distribution channels.
    We could add these as a product to our (SG) online store as an
    alternate method for distribution, we would need to add some sort
    of overhead multiplier, but it wouldn't be much.

    These guys were fine with doing a test run and checking the
    operation before the regular printing progressed, and they are
    local to our area.

    Bobb

                On 9/05/2013 11:05 AM, Bob Basques wrote:

                    All,

                    I often wondered about why these weren't just all
                    run off at once and shipped out to the different
                    events as needed. first come, first serve sort of
                    idea. Easier to mange too, reserve some amount
                    for pressing, some amount for shipping, and that's
                    it for the funding cycle (unless more funding
                    comes along).

                    When you are to factor in all this charge back
                    handling stuff it starts to get real expensive
                    overhead wise. Even if you went the route of
                    having regional printings, I would bet it would
                    still be cheaper than sending the money out to
                    each group and having them press their own items.

                    I could find a local entity here that might be in
                    a poistion to handle this type of thing. . .

                    Anyway, just food for thought.

                    bobb

                    Hi Cameron,

                    I have to admit that you caught me off-guard, the
                    list is more impressive than I thought before
                    reviewing it. :slight_smile:

                    I still find that having to deal with funding DVDs
                    for so many events can be an issue. It is not just
                    about processing micro-payments, you also need to
                    collect and archive proofs that the expense you
                    are reimbursing is legitimate (i.e. receipts) for
                    OSGeo's accounting. I have seen how complicated
                    this can be with just the Local chapter starter
                    kits, imagine doing this for ~100 DVD print runs
                    all around the world.

_______________________________________________
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com