[Marketing] just some thoughts

After much research (going back over the mailing list for the past few months, reading the proposed budget, pacing back and forth in my office, taking another look at our website and some blog posts, thinking about the OpenGeo folks), I have come to two preliminary conclusions:

* The "selling geo to open source people" / "selling open source to geo people" dichotomy cuts both ways. OSGeo has compelling stories for both the development community *and* the existing "geo-focused IT" community and I do not think we can afford to focus on just one or the other. The network effects and the current state of the GIS ecosystem are simply too large to ignore.

* We should not spend undue effort explaining what Open Source means. Those with purchasing authority already know what it is and are willing to believe it can be a good option for them. (For those who don't understand Open Source, there are plenty of organizations out there already propagating the meme.)

If valid, those propositions then lead me to these spending goals for 2009:

* Continue to attend classical geo conferences, targeting the user and purchaser communities. Focus almost exclusively on case studies showing how the whole stack works together and interoperates with existing pieces of the tool chain (read: ESRI). Case studies should demonstrate ROI, so the CTO types can see that our stuff is real, not just a bunch of random beta-level code. Beef up our website and collaterals to directly address this market. Case studies, Live DVDs, demo portals.

* For the developer folks, target the existing GIS developer community rather than the non-geo open source crowd. Provide sufficient project descriptions, road-mapping, and examples to show them that they can use our stuff today, on the projects they are already undertaking. And do it almost exclusively via the website, blogs, magazine articles, etc; you won't reach the developer types as well at conferences. Don't stress about trying to reach the existing non-geo open source crowd: they are the most likely ones to find out about us on their own, via blogs and word-of-mouth and such, so we need not specifically go after them; the developer-oriented content on the website we build for the traditional geo developers will be sufficient for them.

I have not yet decided what those two goals mean to me in terms of exactly how much money to spend on what things, but I thought I'd send this now in case anyone wants to discuss at tonight's mtg.

-mpg

PS: I note also that we are likely underserving the education and open data parts of our organization. These are among the less active communities, perhaps, but we're not spending much effort on promoting their agendas. Not sure how to address this yet.

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the info.

On 10-Dec-08, at 9:02 PM, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:

* For the developer folks, target the existing GIS developer community rather than the non-geo open source crowd. Provide sufficient project descriptions, road-mapping, and examples to show them that they can use our stuff today, on the projects they are already undertaking. And do it almost exclusively via the website, blogs, magazine articles, etc; you won't reach the developer types as well at conferences. Don't stress about trying to reach the existing non-geo open source crowd: they are the most likely ones to find out about us on their own, via blogs and word-of-mouth and such, so we need not specifically go after them; the developer-oriented content on the website we build for the traditional geo developers will be sufficient for them.

On this note - I respectfully completely disagree. :slight_smile:

From what I've seen -- I see two key trends that fly in the face of this:

1. For the geo folks -- it's a tough challenge to get past the early adopters with open source. The reason is these folks are already dealing with at least one of the traditional vendors, and have comfort in that relationship. Overcoming direct business relationships is a really tough hurdle for businesses let alone an open source foundation -- especially when there are much more fruitful areas to focus. See 2.

2. For the IT folks -- the challenge here is that Geospatial is different and new for them, that is their barrier to entry. Without helpful information to guide them along the way -- they'll look elsewhere for that helping hand. If you really want to find a whole whack of people knocking down your door -- showcase the way that IT folks can, and in particular open source folks can incorporate geospatial in their products and solutions. Plan a strategy to work closely with other open source groups to highlight relevant geospatial open source technologies to these particular technologies. If you do that -- my guess is you'll get 100x the benefit of focussing on geospatial events.

my 2 cents ...

Dave

Good points. You're not wrong, I'm just right in a better way than you are :slight_smile:

especially when there are much more fruitful areas to focus

OK, so, without loss of generality, let's go back to the question of a week or so ago: what are we trying to accomplish here? That is, let us all ask ourselves to consider spelling out 2 or 3 measurable goals which, if met, would be "fruitful"?

-mpg

________________________________________
From: Dave McIlhagga [dmcilhagga@dmsolutions.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:43 PM
To: Michael P. Gerlek
Cc: OSGeo Marketing
Subject: Re: [Marketing] just some thoughts

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the info.

On 10-Dec-08, at 9:02 PM, Michael P. Gerlek wrote:

* For the developer folks, target the existing GIS developer
community rather than the non-geo open source crowd. Provide
sufficient project descriptions, road-mapping, and examples to show
them that they can use our stuff today, on the projects they are
already undertaking. And do it almost exclusively via the website,
blogs, magazine articles, etc; you won't reach the developer types
as well at conferences. Don't stress about trying to reach the
existing non-geo open source crowd: they are the most likely ones to
find out about us on their own, via blogs and word-of-mouth and
such, so we need not specifically go after them; the developer-
oriented content on the website we build for the traditional geo
developers will be sufficient for them.

On this note - I respectfully completely disagree. :slight_smile:

From what I've seen -- I see two key trends that fly in the face of
this:

1. For the geo folks -- it's a tough challenge to get past the early
adopters with open source. The reason is these folks are already
dealing with at least one of the traditional vendors, and have comfort
in that relationship. Overcoming direct business relationships is a
really tough hurdle for businesses let alone an open source foundation
-- especially when there are much more fruitful areas to focus. See 2.

2. For the IT folks -- the challenge here is that Geospatial is
different and new for them, that is their barrier to entry. Without
helpful information to guide them along the way -- they'll look
elsewhere for that helping hand. If you really want to find a whole
whack of people knocking down your door -- showcase the way that IT
folks can, and in particular open source folks can incorporate
geospatial in their products and solutions. Plan a strategy to work
closely with other open source groups to highlight relevant geospatial
open source technologies to these particular technologies. If you do
that -- my guess is you'll get 100x the benefit of focussing on
geospatial events.

my 2 cents ...

Dave

Hi Michael,

I agree *almost* everything, but not all.

* We should not spend undue effort explaining what Open Source means.
Those with purchasing authority already know what it is and are

willing to

believe it can be a good option for them. (For those who don't

understand

Open Source, there are plenty of organizations out there already
propagating the meme.)

I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
don't give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs from
going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
projects.

Case studies should demonstrate ROI, so
the CTO types can see that our stuff is real, not just a bunch of

random

beta-level code. Beef up our website and collaterals to directly

address

this market. Case studies, Live DVDs, demo portals.

+1

I add Case studies, case studies and more case studies.

I enclose a link to the Case Studies page [1] at OSOR. FYI, OSOR is The
Open Source Observatory and Repository for European public
administrations (OSOR), a platform for exchanging information,
experiences and FLOSS-based code for use in public administrations. I'd
like to have similar contents in OSGeo, updating the wiki page that
Cameron started [2].

And let's highlight standards and interoperability.

Regards,

[1] http://osor.eu/case_studies
[2] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Case_Studies

---------------------------------------------
Miguel Montesinos
CTO
PRODEVELOP, S.L.
mmontesinos [at] prodevelop [dot] es
www.prodevelop.es

-----Mensaje original-----
De: marketing-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:marketing-
bounces@lists.osgeo.org] En nombre de Michael P. Gerlek
Enviado el: jueves, 11 de diciembre de 2008 3:03
Para: OSGeo Marketing
Asunto: [Marketing] just some thoughts

After much research (going back over the mailing list for the past few
months, reading the proposed budget, pacing back and forth in my

office,

taking another look at our website and some blog posts, thinking about

the

OpenGeo folks), I have come to two preliminary conclusions:

* The "selling geo to open source people" / "selling open source to

geo

people" dichotomy cuts both ways. OSGeo has compelling stories for

both

the development community *and* the existing "geo-focused IT"

community and

I do not think we can afford to focus on just one or the other. The
network effects and the current state of the GIS ecosystem are simply

too

large to ignore.

* We should not spend undue effort explaining what Open Source means.
Those with purchasing authority already know what it is and are

willing to

believe it can be a good option for them. (For those who don't

understand

Open Source, there are plenty of organizations out there already
propagating the meme.)

If valid, those propositions then lead me to these spending goals for

2009:

* Continue to attend classical geo conferences, targeting the user and
purchaser communities. Focus almost exclusively on case studies

showing

how the whole stack works together and interoperates with existing

pieces

of the tool chain (read: ESRI). Case studies should demonstrate ROI,

so

the CTO types can see that our stuff is real, not just a bunch of

random

beta-level code. Beef up our website and collaterals to directly

address

this market. Case studies, Live DVDs, demo portals.

* For the developer folks, target the existing GIS developer community
rather than the non-geo open source crowd. Provide sufficient project
descriptions, road-mapping, and examples to show them that they can

use our

stuff today, on the projects they are already undertaking. And do it
almost exclusively via the website, blogs, magazine articles, etc; you
won't reach the developer types as well at conferences. Don't stress

about

trying to reach the existing non-geo open source crowd: they are the

most

likely ones to find out about us on their own, via blogs and

word-of-mouth

and such, so we need not specifically go after them; the

developer-oriented

content on the website we build for the traditional geo developers

will be

sufficient for them.

I have not yet decided what those two goals mean to me in terms of

exactly

how much money to spend on what things, but I thought I'd send this

now in

case anyone wants to discuss at tonight's mtg.

-mpg

PS: I note also that we are likely underserving the education and open

data

parts of our organization. These are among the less active

communities,

perhaps, but we're not spending much effort on promoting their

agendas.

Not sure how to address this yet.

_______________________________________________
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

Miguel escribió:

I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
don't give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs from
going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
projects.

This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the overarching idea of open source?

The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.

-mpg

This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?

Lots of them! Otherwise everybody would have massively come out from the dark-side and joined the open-source :wink:

Of course anybody knows about open source, but a strategic decission towards it is another question. And for these kind of decissions, I usually need to convince customers about the stability, quality, sustainability and many others -ity, regarding general open source and specific OSGeo projects.

Regards,

Miguel

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:mpg@lizardtech.com]
Enviado el: jueves, 11 de diciembre de 2008 18:23
Para: Miguel Montesinos; OSGeo Marketing
Asunto: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts

Miguel escribió:

> I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
> don't give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs from
> going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
> projects.

This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?

The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS
offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between
GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.

-mpg

Okay, so I'm likely talking to the wrong people out there :frowning:

I just hate to see us have to spend time/money selling the general open source idea, when there are other groups out there are already doing that (and likely way better than we could).

-mpg

-----Original Message-----
From: Miguel Montesinos [mailto:mmontesinos@prodevelop.es]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:14 AM
To: Michael P. Gerlek; OSGeo Marketing
Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts

This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?

Lots of them! Otherwise everybody would have massively come out from the dark-side and joined the open-source :wink:

Of course anybody knows about open source, but a strategic decission towards it is another question. And for these kind of decissions, I usually need to convince customers about the stability, quality, sustainability and many others -ity, regarding general open source and specific OSGeo projects.

Regards,

Miguel

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:mpg@lizardtech.com]
Enviado el: jueves, 11 de diciembre de 2008 18:23
Para: Miguel Montesinos; OSGeo Marketing
Asunto: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts

Miguel escribió:

> I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
> don't give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs from
> going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
> projects.

This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?

The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS
offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between
GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.

-mpg

I don't see us explaining Open Source as our main purpose but something
we have to be prepared to talk about in the various venues we end up in.
Yes, some still don't know Open Source but more importantly many still
have an irrational fear of what they don't understand.

We're not making flyers about Open Source itself or going to events that
are completely unrelated to our user base, ie I'm not going to table at
my local farmer's market for OSGeo but I do for my local LUG all the
time. But I am going to an academic geography conference and showing
people that they can do their studies without an expensive black box and
that if they work with gov/non-profits its a good option to keep on the
table when starting projects.

The other thing to realize is that there are non-technical
decision/influencers who might get the basics but have to convince their
techie it's what they want. Kinda like you asking your doctor about a
drug you heard about that might work for your condition.

I think we're making progress identifying the targets of our PR but it's
a little more varied than any of us individually thought and at some
point we will need a way to quantify returns on our outreach.

Alex

Michael P. Gerlek wrote:

Okay, so I'm likely talking to the wrong people out there :frowning:

I just hate to see us have to spend time/money selling the general open source idea, when there are other groups out there are already doing that (and likely way better than we could).

-mpg

-----Original Message-----
From: Miguel Montesinos [mailto:mmontesinos@prodevelop.es]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:14 AM
To: Michael P. Gerlek; OSGeo Marketing
Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts

This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?

Lots of them! Otherwise everybody would have massively come out from the dark-side and joined the open-source :wink:

Of course anybody knows about open source, but a strategic decission towards it is another question. And for these kind of decissions, I usually need to convince customers about the stability, quality, sustainability and many others -ity, regarding general open source and specific OSGeo projects.

Regards,

Miguel

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:mpg@lizardtech.com]
Enviado el: jueves, 11 de diciembre de 2008 18:23
Para: Miguel Montesinos; OSGeo Marketing
Asunto: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts

Miguel escribió:

I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
don't give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs from
going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
projects.

This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?

The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS
offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between
GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.

-mpg

_______________________________________________
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

On 13-Dec-08, at 5:09 PM, Alex Mandel wrote:

We're not making flyers about Open Source itself or going to events that
are completely unrelated to our user base,

Fortunately I think some other foundations out there could probably give us a few brochures (or web pages) to keep handy for giving out when people need more info about FOSS in general. Similarly there are some good overviews of the geospatial realm, GIS tools, etc. available from a variety of fronts. Enter OSGeo... talking about the two together and highlighting how our tools help to get the job done.