[Marketing] Processing "OSGeo Teach-in" request

Committees Marketing
1

All,
Paul Ramsey and Jeff McKenna have published a proposal to create a new
brand called "OSGeo Teach-in" [0]. The idea is to hold a for profit
workshop (several days) that teaches the use and application of Free and
Open Source Geospatial Software including but not limited to the OSGeo
stack.

To raise the attractiveness for this undertaking two main ideas were
proposed:
1. Invite well-known individuals from the FOSSGIS community to give the
trainings.
2. Create a tight liaison with OSGeo and making it an official OSGeo Event.

The first part in itself is perfectly reasonable and addresses standard
market mechanisms. Get the best teachers pay them adequately for their
effort and market the "Teach-in" as a high prize, high quality
undertaking.

The second part involves making the "OSGeo Teach-in" an official "OSGeo
Event". But up to date these have invariably been organized as non-profit
events. OSGeo appears at a growing number of conferences, trade fairs,
meetings and so on - always (as far as I know) with non-commercial[1]
ambitions. The latest FOSS4G also was a commercial success and all the
surplus went to OSGeo. The same (on a more humble level) applies to other
non-profit oriented events organized by local groups (for example the
FOSSGIS conference in Germany).

The "Teach-in" proposal proposes to combine the commercial viability of
such an undertaking with the non-profit character of OSGeo. This (plus
[2]) started a somewhat controversial debate on the Board list ([3]) and
some back channels. As usual with hot new topics it was interspersed with
emotion, allegations and reproaches (all from my part) as well as with
good ideas, thoughtful comments and some good directions.

In order to put some order into the chaos the follow up discussion should
be orderly and openly. As chair of Marketing (and because I already did
some inadvertent damage when criticizing the proposal) I feel obliged to
take a lead in starting to find out what good we can make of this
proposal. If it was a less controversial topic we should simply make it a
Trac ticket and proceed. To have broader input I suggest to discuss
options more broadly here (when answering please delete all the above
intro blah).

"OSGeo Teach-in" options:
1. Create a new brand called "OSGeo Teach-in" and make it available for
use by paying OSGeo sponsors.
2. Create a new OSGeo-Event called "OSGeo Teach-in" and organize it in a
similar community driven way like FOSS4G (call for proposal, select the
best option, get the surplus). This OSGeo fund raising activity would have
to be managed by OSGeo (maybe the Conference Committee?)

I propose to discuss these options (and please modify them heavily and add
more ideas). When a rough consensus can be seen that it is at all viable
to go on then we should create the obligatory Wiki page and consolidate
our thoughts there. Then make it a motion to pass Marketing and propose to
the Board for decision.

Ideally we (Marketing) can develop a tool from it that can be used to
further build the brand OSGeo and give its members[4] an option to profit
from that brand.

Best regards,
Arnulf.

[0] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2008-May/002444.html

[1] Beware of the term non-commercial. Whenever I myself appear at a
conference and talk about the benefit of Open Source I also must have a
commercial interest in building interest around Open Source because it is
the foundation of the business model of my company. Otoh whenever people
in my company build Open Source and publish it together with in-depth
knowledge for All to use then it has a non-commercial touch.

[2] Some of the reasoning in the proposal could be interpreted as drawing
attention away from the annual FOSS4G, some of it could be interpreted as
being overly NA-centric, some of it could be seen as overly OSGeo in-cabal
protective. All the same my personal interpretations (and watch out - me
myself and I are all part of the in-cabal) are that the proposal was
proposed with the best intention of the proposers' to not oppose OSGeo's
goals. I fully trust that it was only ignorance the lead them to cause
this havoc in my brain.

[3] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2008-May/thread.html
Search for "Teach-in 2009" and "So what is the purpose of OSGeo?"

[4] This is more anecdotal: What types of memberships exist in OSGeo?
There is an official definition [5] plus (perceived ones in brackets)?
* Participant
* (Pseudo-members-who-exist-in-the-wiki)
* (OSGeo LDAP user)
* Member
* (Intentional Member)
* Supporter
* (Member-in-good-standing)
* Charter Member
* (Cabal Member)
[5] http://www.osgeo.org/membership

Best regards,
--
Arnulf

2

Arnulf Christl ha scritto:

All,
Paul Ramsey and Jeff McKenna have published a proposal to create a new
brand called "OSGeo Teach-in" [0]. The idea is to hold a for profit
workshop (several days) that teaches the use and application of Free and
Open Source Geospatial Software including but not limited to the OSGeo
stack.

Hi all.
I see good and bad sides of this approach. One potentially disruptive
issue is competition between the teaching activities of OSGeo members:
to compete with your members is probably not a very brilliant idea, and
should better be avoided; that's why we (GFOSS.it) decided not to hold
commercial courses. But of course we may be wrong, and there amy be godd
ways to avoid conflicts.

"OSGeo Teach-in" options:
1. Create a new brand called "OSGeo Teach-in" and make it available for
use by paying OSGeo sponsors.

What do you actually mean by this?
All the best.
pc
--
Paolo Cavallini, see: * http://www.faunalia.it/pc *

3

dear Paolo, it is great to hear feedback from someone outside the Board
or the immediate interest group in this decision :slight_smile:

On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 11:12:14AM +0200, Paolo Cavallini wrote:

> Paul Ramsey and Jeff McKenna have published a proposal to create a new
> brand called "OSGeo Teach-in" [0]. The idea is to hold a for profit

to compete with your members is probably not a very brilliant idea, and
should better be avoided; that's why we (GFOSS.it) decided not to hold
commercial courses. But of course we may be wrong, and there amy be godd
ways to avoid conflicts.

> "OSGeo Teach-in" options:
> 1. Create a new brand called "OSGeo Teach-in" and make it available for
> use by paying OSGeo sponsors.
What do you actually mean by this?

While I can't speculate as to Arnulf's inner meaning, i see this:

- We had an approach from some OSGeo members saying, "We want to put on
  this event, we'll pay presenters well and host a one-day open/free
  event at the end, and give OSGeo either 10K or 10% share of profit.
  In return, we want to promote this as 'an OSGeo event', use the
  online promotional and marketing facilities, and have a promise of
  public support from OSGeo staff and officers"

  - This way, it may appear that OSGeo is holding commercial courses

- If We are happy to agree to this going ahead, then We (the Board,
  those on the Marketing and Conference committees who feel affected)
  either will have to respond to future requests to hold a "Teach-In"
  on a case-by-case basis, *or* develop detailed policy that will
  cover this and future events, addressing the questions "TBD" at
  http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Conference_Policy#.22OSGeo_Teach-in.22_events
  - Case-by-case decisions will consume energy and will always be open
    to (possibly justified) accusations of spatial, social or commercial bias
  - Developing a detailed policy may be pre-emptive until this kind of
    event has been tried out once, and may never fit all cases due to
    different cultural and commercial climates in different places

- This idea of selling the "OSGeo Teach-In" as a "brand" to sponsors
  keeps the decision clean. There's already a range of sponsorship
  benefits listed at http://www.osgeo.org/sponsorship ... a Supporting
  Sponsor could have the right to host events labelled "OSGeo Teach-in",
  and there would end our involvement. OSGeo would not have the
  formal responsibility to promote and publically support the event,
  but it is very likely that it would do so, as the cross-marketing benefit
  would be so significant. It could be an incentive for sponsors to get
  their staff more involved in the OSGeo community and to make the
  sponsor relationship more "embedded" - currently it seems more like
  like sponsoring a horse or a football team.

  - This way We could, preserving mutual goodwill, meet the requests
    from the current proposers (Paul and Jeff) and get the same amount
    of financial and marketing benefit from their effort, without
    having to make a one-off contract - they simply become Supporting
    Sponsors and the right to do an annual "Teach-in" event gets added
    to the list of benefits for all Supporters

I quite like this, as it is Clean.

It does not address my core concern about how much of a negative
impact this event or others like it *may* have on FOSS4G - both in
number of workshop attendees there, and in number and quality of
workshop proposals submitted to FOSS4G. Thus my reluctance to make a
decision on the original Teach-in proposal "in a vacuum", without
also considering the impact on OSGeo's general conference policy and
running arrangements.

However as Mark may have put it, it does seem like looking a gift
horse in the mouth when FOSS GIS activists are coming along asking to
do events carrying the OSGeo name and give the Foundation money and
we look like we are saying no. The user base and community of interest
worldwide may be growing such that FOSS4G doesn't shrink or lose kudos
by being subjected to more "competition"; it's kind of incalculable now.

I hope this makes sense? This discussion has gotten so gloopy and
gluey, and i made it that much more so by stirring it, that i can no
longer really tell if any of it makes sense.

love,

jo
--

4

On 3-Jun-08, at 1:25 PM, jo@frot.org wrote:

This idea of selling the "OSGeo Teach-In" as a "brand" to sponsors
  keeps the decision clean. There's already a range of sponsorship
  benefits listed at http://www.osgeo.org/sponsorship ... a Supporting
  Sponsor could have the right to host events labelled "OSGeo Teach-in",
  and there would end our involvement.

Jo,
I don't see how becoming a sponsor can help in these cases. It's come up a couple times but I think there's a misunderstanding of sponsor benefits here. The rights of sponsors don't really include using the OSGeo brand as part of their own events. It merely lets them identify themselves as sponsors. Are you thinking of specific wording on that page that suggests more? I'm thinking of the "Right to use OSGeo Sponsor logo and promote named sponsorship level"

Tyler

5

On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 02:03:19PM -0700, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) wrote:

> This idea of selling the "OSGeo Teach-In" as a "brand" to sponsors
> keeps the decision clean. There's already a range of sponsorship
> benefits listed at http://www.osgeo.org/sponsorship ... a Supporting

I don't see how becoming a sponsor can help in these cases. It's
come up a couple times but I think there's a misunderstanding of
sponsor benefits here. The rights of sponsors don't really include
using the OSGeo brand as part of their own events. It merely lets
them identify themselves as sponsors. Are you thinking of specific
wording on that page that suggests more? I'm thinking of the "Right
to use OSGeo Sponsor logo and promote named sponsorship level"

I'm reading back to Arnulf's original suggestion [[ (...thinking
out loud): The logo "OSGeo Teach-in" could be something you get when
you are a sponsor. Then you can do this kind of event.]]

I've assumed this means *extending* the Supporting Sponsor benefits to
include the right to host an annual "OSGeo Teach-in" event.

[[2. Make the brand "OSGeo Teach-in" available to sponsors and let
them run loose with it. I suggest to request for official feedback from
participants, maybe through some web interface and an option to
exclude sponsors that mess up the "OSGeo Teach-in"]]

As stated i quite like the implications of this in that:

- It can help keep the need for a policy minimal, while answering the
  "what happens next time someone asks" question clearly.
- It can keep the OSGeo branding on the name of the event (mutual
  benefit) without involving the Foundation in commercial activity,
  either in perception or reality
- It can keep resource and energy commitment from OSGeo to a low level
- It applies minimal constraints and would not affect the Foundation's
  ability to do similar things on a not-for-profit basis, directly

I thought this made sense, but perhaps i just wasn't clear. :confused:

jo
--

6

On 3-Jun-08, at 2:25 PM, jo@frot.org wrote:

On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 02:03:19PM -0700, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) wrote:

This idea of selling the "OSGeo Teach-In" as a "brand" to sponsors
keeps the decision clean. There's already a range of sponsorship
benefits listed at http://www.osgeo.org/sponsorship ... a Supporting

I don't see how becoming a sponsor can help in these cases. It's
come up a couple times but I think there's a misunderstanding of
sponsor benefits here. The rights of sponsors don't really include
using the OSGeo brand as part of their own events. It merely lets
them identify themselves as sponsors. Are you thinking of specific
wording on that page that suggests more? I'm thinking of the "Right
to use OSGeo Sponsor logo and promote named sponsorship level"

I'm reading back to Arnulf's original suggestion [[ (...thinking
out loud): The logo "OSGeo Teach-in" could be something you get when
you are a sponsor. Then you can do this kind of event.]]

I've assumed this means *extending* the Supporting Sponsor benefits to
include the right to host an annual "OSGeo Teach-in" event.
..
I thought this made sense, but perhaps i just wasn't clear. :confused:

Ah, okay, I wasn't thinking of the idea of extending benefits - I see the meaning now.

I'm still trying to get my head around the idea of "commercial" and what it means. I think I need to re-read some of the discussion because I'm not seeing the clear benefit for extending the sponsorship model.

Is the idea to allow sponsors to do the events on their own and brand them as OSGeo even though there is no involvement or formal connection back to OSGeo - just a certain level of paid sponsorship? Does it mean anyone can become a sponsor and hold an event using OSGeo branding?

Or perhaps the idea is to treat this more like a licensing fee - where an organisation could pay a fixed or relative rate to be able to use the brand under certain terms. With that I don't think we could get away from having to vet the organisation through a process. I'd favour that before I would extend the existing sponsorship programme (which requires no vetting at the moment). I'm not in favour of giving special rights to sponsors with minimal ties, if any, simply because they pay. I'd rather have the ability to allow trusted users to move ahead under the brand, with certain approved terms. Certainly "trusted" is subjective, but the policy would have to help with that part.

Maybe the line between licensing and sponsorship isn't that broad, but I think the sponsorship programme should be left out of the equation. I also can't see such a flood of requests as to make any process too onerous.

Tyler

7

Hi Jo,
I think there's an important extra point here: The organizers take the full financial risk of the event.

Further to Tyler's point (I don't see how becoming a sponsor can help in these cases. It's come up a couple times but I think there's a misunderstanding of sponsor benefits here. The rights of sponsors don't really include using the OSGeo brand as part of their own events. It merely lets them identify themselves as sponsors. Are you thinking of specific wording on that page that suggests more? I'm thinking of the "Right to use OSGeo Sponsor logo and promote named sponsorship level"):

I could definitely see that becoming a benefit of sponsors. I'm still not convinced that selling a teach in brand in itself is something I would go for, but could live with that. I like the sponsor benefit better, using another formulation than "OSGeo Teach In" for such an event.

Ciao,
Jeroen

On Jun 3, 2008, at 10:25 PM, jo@frot.org wrote:

- We had an approach from some OSGeo members saying, "We want to put on
this event, we'll pay presenters well and host a one-day open/free
event at the end, and give OSGeo either 10K or 10% share of profit.
In return, we want to promote this as 'an OSGeo event', use the
online promotional and marketing facilities, and have a promise of
public support from OSGeo staff and officers"

8

I'm not in favour of giving special rights to sponsors
with minimal ties, if any, simply because they pay.
I'd rather have the ability to allow trusted users to
move ahead under the brand, with certain approved terms.
Certainly "trusted" is subjective, but the policy
would have to help with that part.

Perhaps this could be devolved to the projects and local chapters... If
an organisation wants to hold an OSGeo Teach-In, they need approval from
either a local chapter or a project PSC. This would be a good
indication that the organisation is active in the community.

I wonder if we could make the license fee contingent on the structure of
the event; for-profit events have to pay the licensing fee? Or maybe
only exclude non-profit events organised by a local chapter (or local
chapter in formation)?

Jason

9

Hi,

My opinion is that if we allow people to organise OSGeo events (like Teach In), OSGeo should at least keep a minimum of control on what will be happening or who organise it. Just allowing sponsors to organise Teach In can lead to problem I think. I think this kind of event would at least need Board approval (and/or Conference commitee approval). A proposal, like Paul and Jeff's one, is enough for now in my sense and is really all I need to make me an idea. Can this become the first step to a more defined process?

My $0.02

Julien

PS: As a OSGeo member with some favorable bias for Jeff and Paul (since I know them personally) and without really thinking about it more than 5 minutes here are my requirements/policy:
- Will it be fun?
- Will it be intesting (Will I learn something)?
- Will it be financially viable?
- Will it market (not sure what's the good word) the OSGeo name well?

Jeroen Ticheler wrote:

Hi Jo,
I think there's an important extra point here: The organizers take the full financial risk of the event.

Further to Tyler's point (I don't see how becoming a sponsor can help in these cases. It's come up a couple times but I think there's a misunderstanding of sponsor benefits here. The rights of sponsors don't really include using the OSGeo brand as part of their own events. It merely lets them identify themselves as sponsors. Are you thinking of specific wording on that page that suggests more? I'm thinking of the "Right to use OSGeo Sponsor logo and promote named sponsorship level"):

I could definitely see that becoming a benefit of sponsors. I'm still not convinced that selling a teach in brand in itself is something I would go for, but could live with that. I like the sponsor benefit better, using another formulation than "OSGeo Teach In" for such an event.

Ciao,
Jeroen

On Jun 3, 2008, at 10:25 PM, jo@frot.org wrote:

- We had an approach from some OSGeo members saying, "We want to put on
this event, we'll pay presenters well and host a one-day open/free
event at the end, and give OSGeo either 10K or 10% share of profit.
In return, we want to promote this as 'an OSGeo event', use the
online promotional and marketing facilities, and have a promise of
public support from OSGeo staff and officers"

_______________________________________________
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

--
Julien-Samuel Lacroix
Mapgears
http://www.mapgears.com/

10

Hi all,
In my opinion...

Generally organizer do not get a lot of money, they generally cover part of the costs of the course...
You can organize a course of FOSS4G anytime but why think to label it as OSGeo?

In my opinion for the following reason:
1- promote OSGeo in local communities and administrations
2- promote locally the organizer as "open source experts"
3- have a brand that could attract more people to the course

What OSGeo should care about...
1- that teachers/presenters are trusted people
2- that the event has high level contents
3- that OSGeo is correctly promoted

And this can be done only on a "case by case" procedure, that may be delegated to local chapter or Marketing Board..

Just my 2 cents...

Maxi

Jeroen Ticheler wrote:

Hi Jo,
I think there's an important extra point here: The organizers take the full financial risk of the event.

Further to Tyler's point (I don't see how becoming a sponsor can help in these cases. It's come up a couple times but I think there's a misunderstanding of sponsor benefits here. The rights of sponsors don't really include using the OSGeo brand as part of their own events. It merely lets them identify themselves as sponsors. Are you thinking of specific wording on that page that suggests more? I'm thinking of the "Right to use OSGeo Sponsor logo and promote named sponsorship level"):

I could definitely see that becoming a benefit of sponsors. I'm still not convinced that selling a teach in brand in itself is something I would go for, but could live with that. I like the sponsor benefit better, using another formulation than "OSGeo Teach In" for such an event.

Ciao,
Jeroen

On Jun 3, 2008, at 10:25 PM, jo@frot.org wrote:

- We had an approach from some OSGeo members saying, "We want to put on
this event, we'll pay presenters well and host a one-day open/free
event at the end, and give OSGeo either 10K or 10% share of profit.
In return, we want to promote this as 'an OSGeo event', use the
online promotional and marketing facilities, and have a promise of
public support from OSGeo staff and officers"

_______________________________________________
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

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