15th of January is great for me.
Daniele
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:52 AM, <marketing-request@lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
Send Marketing mailing list submissions to
marketing@lists.osgeo.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
or, via email, send a message with subject or body ‘help’ to
marketing-request@lists.osgeo.orgYou can reach the person managing the list at
marketing-owner@lists.osgeo.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than “Re: Contents of Marketing digest…”Today’s Topics:
- RE: just some thoughts (Michael P. Gerlek)
- RE: Marketing Calendar on the Web (Michael P. Gerlek)
- RE: Feedback from Marketing Meeting (Michael P. Gerlek)
- RE: just some thoughts (Miguel Montesinos)
- Re: Feedback from Marketing Meeting (Frank Warmerdam)
- Re: Feedback from Marketing Meeting (Paul Ramsey)
- RE: just some thoughts (Michael P. Gerlek)
- RE: Feedback from Marketing Meeting (Michael P. Gerlek)
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:22:54 -0800
From: “Michael P. Gerlek” <mpg@lizardtech.com>
Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts
To: ‘Miguel Montesinos’ <mmontesinos@prodevelop.es>, OSGeo Marketing
<marketing@lists.osgeo.org>
Message-ID:
<C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB7B@sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“iso-8859-1”Miguel escribió:
I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
don’t give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs from
going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
projects.This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision maker crowd, are there really still people who in don’t grok at least the overarching idea of open source?
The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.
-mpg
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:30:29 -0800
From: “Michael P. Gerlek” <mpg@lizardtech.com>
Subject: RE: [Marketing] Marketing Calendar on the Web
To: “‘Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)’” <tmitchell@osgeo.org>, OSGeo Marketing
<marketing@lists.osgeo.org>
Message-ID:
<C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB7E@sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“us-ascii”(For those of calendar-impaired, pls send occasional meeting reminders to the list too…)
-mpg
-----Original Message-----
From: marketing-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:marketing-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:53 AM
To: OSGeo Marketing
Subject: [Marketing] Marketing Calendar on the WebWe just had a great committee meeting - more to come after I get some
sleep.Those of us who were there until the end, decided to keep the same
time for future meetings. We can still debate it if others want to,
we were missing a few of you! We also planned to meet at least once
a month on a specific day - the first Thursday of each month at 7am
UTC (note, that’s Wednesday for some of us) starting in February.I’ve put these into a web accessible calendar file for you to use in
your calendaring application. Apparently I can also post “to do”
task items and reminders there. If you sign up to it, be sure to set
it to auto-update from the feed regularly.Please don’t ask me to put it into some online google application,
but feel free to do so if that’s your preference.You can also
read it with Mozilla Sunbird (free) or Apples iCal, plus numerous
other apps. Not sure how much Outlook likes it.webcal://www.osgeo.org/calendars/Marketing.ics
Hope this definite time and date helps future planning!
Please note, I will be working half time for much of December, and
the beginning of January will be weird for many people. So I propose
our next meeting to be January 15th and then into our monthly
recurring schedule starting in February.Thanks to all who made the meeting very successful today. I’ll get
the minutes posted and circulate the action items tomorrow.Best wishes,
Tyler
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:34:21 -0800
From: “Michael P. Gerlek” <mpg@lizardtech.com>
Subject: RE: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
To: ‘Christopher Schmidt’ <crschmidt@metacarta.com>,
“marketing@lists.osgeo.org” <marketing@lists.osgeo.org>
Message-ID:
<C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB7F@sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“us-ascii”No apologies needed, imho – such comments, when well thought out as you’ve done, are always helpful.
Seems to be some confusion about the “marketing” and “website” charters. At the risk of introducing a Naming Thread, I’d suggest the marketing team should really be considered as “MarCom” (Marketing/Communications) and thus responsible for the content/fodder on the web (whereas the icky HTMLification of said fodder is decidedly not a marketing team role).
-mpg
-----Original Message-----
From: marketing-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:marketing-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Schmidt
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:38 AM
To: marketing@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing MeetingHello,
Upon partial review of the marketing committee meeting on IRC last
night, I noticed a couple things that I’d like to comment on.First, It seems that my email was seen as a negative comment on the
marketing committee. I apologize that it was seen that way.
Specifically, my original email was not sent to the marketing committee
for a reason: I don’t see that Marketing has – up until this point –
had a strong reason to consider the website ‘theirs’.We have a “web committee” who is, as far as I understand it, tasked with
the maintenance of the website as it stands today. This committee is
primarily – at this time – involved in the upkeep of the current
website, and not with broad redesign movements. This is understandable.The idea of significantly changing the website seems like it would be
outside the realm of any existing committee within OSGeo. WebCom is
primarily tasked with maintaining the existing website. Marketing is
working on branding, providing print materials, conference attendance,
etc. This is fine, and perfectly reasonable.My email to the board was an effort to point out that perhaps some
effort needs to be taken outside the purposes typically set up by
these committees – that the Board should perhaps consider a seperate
task, that of a significant web presence redesign, as important to the
Foundation. This is not a criticism of existing efforts – the existing
website is a fine piece of work for what it is, adn the marketing
committee’s efforts are similarly successful at the tasks that are being
undertaken. Simply put, website redesign has not been proposed as a task
that belongs to either of these committees in the past – at least, not
that I’ve seen.My email was designed to bring attention to this particular aspect of
OSGeo’s success at this time.Another complaint was that I mentioned OpenGeo as doing a good job with
creating a corporate-friendly web presence, “without making a mention of
how much investment has gone into such branding.” Allow me to clarify:
If I thought this was a task we could snap our fingers at, then I
wouldn’t have bothered to send an email. The task of creating a
successful brand – successful insofar as it is recognized as completing
the goals that people are interested in – is one that is very hard, and
website redesign to support that goal is often expensive. Very few
people who are currently participating in OSGeo have the marketing
know how to do even a portion of what I suggested.The fact that this effort is so significant is exactly why I suggested
that the item be considered before the board approves budgets for
2009: specifically, if the board considers my suggestions, and finds
them to have some merit, it may make some sense to address this by
keeping some funds available for the task.I am sorry that my comments have upset people. I am not attempting to
belittle the efforts that the marketing committee has been putting
forward – it is clearly doing important work. Nor am I trying to say
that the marketing committee should be specifically taking on tasks like
website redesign. Instead, I’m simply trying to offer some
information/guidance, based on my own personal opinions and the feedback
that I have been receiving of late.In my opinion, the OSGeo website does not, at this time, clearly achieve
the following goals:
- Provide a clear, concise overview of OSGeo to first time visitors.
- Provide a clear description of each OSGeo project to potential
users considering using OSGeo software.- Provide compelling evidence/information about OSGeo projects designed
for corporate consumption.It does, on the other hand, achieve the following goals:
- Provide a single stop to get access to a large quantity of
information about OSGeo.- Provide an overview of recent news and upcoming events in the OSGeo
community.- Provide a starting point for getting access to OSGeo projects,
especially if you’re familiar with them already.As a resource, these things are clearly important to the existing OSGeo
community. It’s just not as clear to me that the OSGeo homepage provides
a useful starting point for someone beginning to look at OSGeo – either
as a Foundation, or as a home of a project they might be interested in.Perhaps the answer is “This is not what OSGeo needs.” In that case, I
am simply wrong: that’s an easy enough answer. I don’t know who is best
equipped to answer that question. I think that it comes from a variety
of sources: Marketing, WebCom, other groups within the project, perhaps.Perhaps the answer is “This is interesting, but less important than
supporting events.” I would disagree with this based on what little
knowledge I have, but am willing to accept that it’s not worth the
time/energy of OSGeo to investigate improved website presence.Perhaps the answer is simply “We can’t afford it.” This is also
obviously a reasonable response.None of these responses would be out of line from the Marketing
committee, or OSGeo as a whole. However, I thought it would be
worthwhile to bring up the possibility that OSgeo’s current community
site is inefficient at turning first time visitors into people who walk
away not knowing what OSGeo is – in my opinion – for consideration of
some group of people larger than myself.I apologize, again, for upsetting people with the tone of my email. I’ll
be honest and say that I don’t really understand why this would be
upsetting, but hopefully this better explains why I think that none of
what I said should be seen as a criticism/failure of any existing group
within OSGeo.Best Regards,
Christopher Schmidt
MetaCarta
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:13:45 +0100
From: “Miguel Montesinos” <mmontesinos@prodevelop.es>
Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts
To: “Michael P. Gerlek” <mpg@lizardtech.com>, “OSGeo Marketing”
<marketing@lists.osgeo.org>
Message-ID:
E43C32BC5843E34FB4C00CDFAAAAF7D8014013FE@australia.prodevelop.local
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“iso-8859-1”This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don’t grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?Lots of them! Otherwise everybody would have massively come out from the dark-side and joined the open-source
Of course anybody knows about open source, but a strategic decission towards it is another question. And for these kind of decissions, I usually need to convince customers about the stability, quality, sustainability and many others -ity, regarding general open source and specific OSGeo projects.
Regards,
Miguel
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:mpg@lizardtech.com]
Enviado el: jueves, 11 de diciembre de 2008 18:23
Para: Miguel Montesinos; OSGeo Marketing
Asunto: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughtsMiguel escribió:
I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
don’t give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs from
going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
projects.This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don’t grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS
offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between
GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.-mpg
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:32:58 -0500
From: Frank Warmerdam <warmerdam@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
To: “Michael P. Gerlek” <mpg@lizardtech.com>
Cc: “marketing@lists.osgeo.org” <marketing@lists.osgeo.org>
Message-ID: <49415CDA.4000901@pobox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowedMichael P. Gerlek wrote:
No apologies needed, imho – such comments, when well thought out as you’ve
done, are always helpful.Seems to be some confusion about the “marketing” and “website” charters. At
the risk of introducing a Naming Thread, I’d suggest the marketing team
should really be considered as “MarCom” (Marketing/Communications) and thus
responsible for the content/fodder on the web (whereas the icky
HTMLification of said fodder is decidedly not a marketing team role).Folks,
I don’t think the website committee has felt it couldn’t create various
content for the website like that discussed. But the people involved
have just not had the energy and expertise to do so. I’m confident we
(on the web site) would be most appreciative of content developed by
the marketing committee for the web site, as well as suggestions for
navigation, etc.Best regards,
---------------------------------------±-------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up | Frank Warmerdam, warmerdam@pobox.com
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:40:17 -0800
From: “Paul Ramsey” <pramsey@cleverelephant.ca>
Subject: Re: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
To: “Frank Warmerdam” <warmerdam@pobox.com>
Cc: “marketing@lists.osgeo.org” <marketing@lists.osgeo.org>
Message-ID:
<30fe546d0812111040q428c42b1w6ac7760306bf1e73@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1Case studies, case studies, case studies, people say. I find that it
takes me about half a day per study. Now, I am notoriously lazy, so
you can take that number any way you like, but there it is. And the
reason I’m not cranking out case studies for osgeo? It doesn’t really
scratch my itch. I’ve got a great lead for a new postgis study burning
a hole in my desk right now… I’ll get to it, someday.P.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Frank Warmerdam <warmerdam@pobox.com> wrote:
Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
No apologies needed, imho – such comments, when well thought out as
you’ve
done, are always helpful.Seems to be some confusion about the “marketing” and “website” charters.
At
the risk of introducing a Naming Thread, I’d suggest the marketing team
should really be considered as “MarCom” (Marketing/Communications) and
thus
responsible for the content/fodder on the web (whereas the icky
HTMLification of said fodder is decidedly not a marketing team role).Folks,
I don’t think the website committee has felt it couldn’t create various
content for the website like that discussed. But the people involved
have just not had the energy and expertise to do so. I’m confident we
(on the web site) would be most appreciative of content developed by
the marketing committee for the web site, as well as suggestions for
navigation, etc.Best regards,
---------------------------------------±-------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up | Frank Warmerdam,
warmerdam@pobox.com
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:41:43 -0800
From: “Michael P. Gerlek” <mpg@lizardtech.com>
Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts
To: ‘Miguel Montesinos’ <mmontesinos@prodevelop.es>, OSGeo Marketing
<marketing@lists.osgeo.org>
Message-ID:
<C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB87@sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“iso-8859-1”Okay, so I’m likely talking to the wrong people out there
I just hate to see us have to spend time/money selling the general open source idea, when there are other groups out there are already doing that (and likely way better than we could).
-mpg
-----Original Message-----
From: Miguel Montesinos [mailto:mmontesinos@prodevelop.es]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:14 AM
To: Michael P. Gerlek; OSGeo Marketing
Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughtsThis surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don’t grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?Lots of them! Otherwise everybody would have massively come out from the dark-side and joined the open-source
Of course anybody knows about open source, but a strategic decission towards it is another question. And for these kind of decissions, I usually need to convince customers about the stability, quality, sustainability and many others -ity, regarding general open source and specific OSGeo projects.
Regards,
Miguel
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:mpg@lizardtech.com]
Enviado el: jueves, 11 de diciembre de 2008 18:23
Para: Miguel Montesinos; OSGeo Marketing
Asunto: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughtsMiguel escribió:
I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
don’t give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs from
going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
projects.This surprises/disappoints me. Amongst the developer or technical decision
maker crowd, are there really still people who in don’t grok at least the
overarching idea of open source?The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS
offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between
GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.-mpg
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:52:02 -0800
From: “Michael P. Gerlek” <mpg@lizardtech.com>
Subject: RE: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
To: ‘Paul Ramsey’ <pramsey@cleverelephant.ca>, Frank Warmerdam
<warmerdam@pobox.com>, “marketing@lists.osgeo.org”
<marketing@lists.osgeo.org>
Message-ID:
<C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB88@sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“us-ascii”I write a lot of content fodder for my day job, but I’m not keen on doing more of that for OSGeo too.
Which is why I fear this is something we’d have to pay to get them done up for us. (I suggested Tina Cary for this at last night’s meeting.)
Assuming we have agreement that it would be a valuable thing.
Note there are different kinds of “case studies”, varying by length and media type; I’m using the term very loosely here. Here are three samples I’m familiar with:
http://www.lizardtech.com/files/geo/casestudies/CityOfAurora.pdf
http://www.gisuser.com/content/view/15523/28/
http://www.terragis.net/2008/11/24/obama-campaign-mapping-voters-with-mapserver-postgis-and-openlayers/Although I’ll note note of them give any qualitative/quantitative ROI numbers or factors, which would be ideal.
The last one, in fact, is being turned into a piece for my monthly GeoConnexion column. And, now that I think of it, you should know that TylerM and I are going to compile all the 18 columns to date into one large OSGeo Journal issue – which, if I do say so myself, will make a great piece of marketing collateral…
-mpg
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Ramsey [mailto:pramsey@cleverelephant.ca]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:40 AM
To: Frank Warmerdam
Cc: Michael P. Gerlek; marketing@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing MeetingCase studies, case studies, case studies, people say. I find that it
takes me about half a day per study. Now, I am notoriously lazy, so
you can take that number any way you like, but there it is. And the
reason I’m not cranking out case studies for osgeo? It doesn’t really
scratch my itch. I’ve got a great lead for a new postgis study burning
a hole in my desk right now… I’ll get to it, someday.P.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Frank Warmerdam <warmerdam@pobox.com> wrote:
Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
No apologies needed, imho – such comments, when well thought out as
you’ve
done, are always helpful.Seems to be some confusion about the “marketing” and “website” charters.
At
the risk of introducing a Naming Thread, I’d suggest the marketing team
should really be considered as “MarCom” (Marketing/Communications) and
thus
responsible for the content/fodder on the web (whereas the icky
HTMLification of said fodder is decidedly not a marketing team role).Folks,
I don’t think the website committee has felt it couldn’t create various
content for the website like that discussed. But the people involved
have just not had the energy and expertise to do so. I’m confident we
(on the web site) would be most appreciative of content developed by
the marketing committee for the web site, as well as suggestions for
navigation, etc.Best regards,
---------------------------------------±-------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up | Frank Warmerdam,
warmerdam@pobox.com
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Marketing mailing list
Marketing@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketingEnd of Marketing Digest, Vol 15, Issue 14
–
Researcher @ Osaka City University
Graduate School for Creative Cities
http://gisws.media.osaka-cu.ac.jp/gistrends