[pgrouting-dev] MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support

Hello community

I am making the following motion:

https://github.com/pgRouting/admin/wiki/MOTION-2:-Stop-2.x-series-support

Please use this mail thread to make comments and your community vote.

PSC members please vote on the motion.

Regards
Vicky

···
Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@[georepublic.de](http://georepublic.de)
Web: [https://georepublic.info](https://georepublic.info)

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl

Hello Vicky, Hello Community Members,

Thanks for starting the motion.
I feel that the motion is apt as going ahead it would be more convenient for users to upgrade to the latest version.

My vote - +1.

Thanks.
Kind regards,
Rajat

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020, 9:14 AM Vicky Vergara <vicky@georepublic.de> wrote:

Hello community

I am making the following motion:

https://github.com/pgRouting/admin/wiki/MOTION-2:-Stop-2.x-series-support

Please use this mail thread to make comments and your community vote.

PSC members please vote on the motion.

Regards
Vicky

Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@[georepublic.de](http://georepublic.de)
Web: [https://georepublic.info](https://georepublic.info)

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl


pgrouting-dev mailing list
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https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pgrouting-dev

+1

From: pgrouting-dev [mailto:pgrouting-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Rajat Shinde
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 6:41 AM
To: pgRouting developers mailing list pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [pgrouting-dev] MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support

Hello Vicky, Hello Community Members,

Thanks for starting the motion.

I feel that the motion is apt as going ahead it would be more convenient for users to upgrade to the latest version.

My vote - +1.

Thanks.

Kind regards,

Rajat

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020, 9:14 AM Vicky Vergara <vicky@georepublic.de> wrote:

Hello community

I am making the following motion:

https://github.com/pgRouting/admin/wiki/MOTION-2:-Stop-2.x-series-support

Please use this mail thread to make comments and your community vote.

PSC members please vote on the motion.

Regards

Vicky

Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@[georepublic.de](http://georepublic.de)
Web: [https://georepublic.info](https://georepublic.info)

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl


pgrouting-dev mailing list
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Hi Vicky, list,

The motion itself is okay for me, but about its application timing,
I prefer that after fixing the following 3.x alphaShape issues is better.

- Significant drop in performance when using new pgr_alphashape function · Issue #1345 · pgRouting/pgrouting · GitHub
- pgr_alphaShape sometimes fails (parse error - invalid geometry) · Issue #1603 · pgRouting/pgrouting · GitHub

I will try to check the above issues after next week.

Regards,

2020年10月4日(日) 8:50 Regina Obe <lr@pcorp.us>:

+1

From: pgrouting-dev [mailto:pgrouting-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Rajat Shinde
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 6:41 AM
To: pgRouting developers mailing list <pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org>
Subject: Re: [pgrouting-dev] MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support

Hello Vicky, Hello Community Members,

Thanks for starting the motion.
I feel that the motion is apt as going ahead it would be more convenient for users to upgrade to the latest version.

My vote - +1.

Thanks.
Kind regards,
Rajat

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020, 9:14 AM Vicky Vergara <vicky@georepublic.de> wrote:
Hello community

I am making the following motion:
MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support · pgRouting/admin Wiki · GitHub

Please use this mail thread to make comments and your community vote.
PSC members please vote on the motion.

Regards
Vicky

--
Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44,
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl

_______________________________________________
pgrouting-dev mailing list
pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org
pgrouting-dev Info Page
_______________________________________________
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pgrouting-dev Info Page

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合同会社 Georepublic Japan
〒658-0081 兵庫県神戸市東灘区田中町1丁目7-22
長瀬 興
mail: nagase@georepublic.co.jp

Hi Vicky,

My vote is +1.

Regards,

El sáb., 3 oct. 2020 5:44, Vicky Vergara <vicky@georepublic.de> escribió:

Hello community

I am making the following motion:

https://github.com/pgRouting/admin/wiki/MOTION-2:-Stop-2.x-series-support

Please use this mail thread to make comments and your community vote.

PSC members please vote on the motion.

Regards
Vicky

Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@[georepublic.de](http://georepublic.de)
Web: [https://georepublic.info](https://georepublic.info)

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl

Hi Vicky, developers,
Speaking for MobilityDB, the motion is good. The relevant extensions to BerlinMOD benchmark are all in 3.x. So +1 here.

Best regards,

Mahmoud Sakr

On Sunday, October 4, 2020, 3:33:52 AM GMT+2, Ko Nagase nagase@georepublic.co.jp wrote:

Hi Vicky, list,

The motion itself is okay for me, but about its application timing,
I prefer that after fixing the following 3.x alphaShape issues is better.

I will try to check the above issues after next week.

Regards,

2020年10月4日(日) 8:50 Regina Obe <lr@pcorp.us>:

+1

From: pgrouting-dev [mailto:pgrouting-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Rajat Shinde
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 6:41 AM
To: pgRouting developers mailing list <pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org>
Subject: Re: [pgrouting-dev] MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support

Hello Vicky, Hello Community Members,

Thanks for starting the motion.
I feel that the motion is apt as going ahead it would be more convenient for users to upgrade to the latest version.

My vote - +1.

Thanks.
Kind regards,
Rajat

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020, 9:14 AM Vicky Vergara <vicky@georepublic.de> wrote:
Hello community

I am making the following motion:
https://github.com/pgRouting/admin/wiki/MOTION-2:-Stop-2.x-series-support

Please use this mail thread to make comments and your community vote.
PSC members please vote on the motion.

Regards
Vicky


Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44,
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl


pgrouting-dev mailing list
pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pgrouting-dev


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合同会社 Georepublic Japan
〒658-0081 兵庫県神戸市東灘区田中町1丁目7-22
長瀬 興
mail: nagase@georepublic.co.jp


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+0

I understand the reasons for dropping CGAL and I think it’s a good idea to lower the amount of maintenance effort.
This is just a single function that probably only has a few users and it requires a lot of attention.
Because I and my company do not use the alphaShape function at the moment, it’s also easy to agree.

That said, I’m not really sure if alphaShape will be part of PostGIS any time soon.
Is there someone working on this? Is there a feature request issue already?
If not, we should probably create an issue and reference it to the one on pgRouting to drop CGAL.

Regards,
Daniel

···

Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan
eMail: daniel.kastl@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

I don’t think it will be in PostGIS anytime soon and even if it is it would be thru SFCGAL which is not a hard dependency.

I am working on a revised ST_ConcaveHull (faster and more accurate) which could act as a proxy but I’m not sure I’ll be done with it before 3.1 and even so, many users would be using lower.

Also keep in mind what Darafei said in his blog post. He thought AlphaShapes are a poor solution for pgRouting.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/isochrones-are-20933638

Added him to this email thread in case he wants to comment

From: Daniel Kastl [mailto:daniel@georepublic.de]
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 8:16 PM
To: Cayetano Benavent cayetano@carto.com
Cc: Vicky Vergara vicky@georepublic.de; pgRouting developers mailing list pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org; Regina Obe lr@pcorp.us
Subject: Re: MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support

+0

I understand the reasons for dropping CGAL and I think it’s a good idea to lower the amount of maintenance effort.

This is just a single function that probably only has a few users and it requires a lot of attention.

Because I and my company do not use the alphaShape function at the moment, it’s also easy to agree.

That said, I’m not really sure if alphaShape will be part of PostGIS any time soon.

Is there someone working on this? Is there a feature request issue already?

If not, we should probably create an issue and reference it to the one on pgRouting to drop CGAL.

Regards,

Daniel

On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 23:33, Cayetano Benavent <cayetano@carto.com> wrote:

Hi Vicky,

My vote is +1.

Regards,

El sáb., 3 oct. 2020 5:44, Vicky Vergara <vicky@georepublic.de> escribió:

Hello community

I am making the following motion:

https://github.com/pgRouting/admin/wiki/MOTION-2:-Stop-2.x-series-support

Please use this mail thread to make comments and your community vote.

PSC members please vote on the motion.

Regards

Vicky

Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@[georepublic.de](http://georepublic.de)
Web: [https://georepublic.info](https://georepublic.info)

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl

Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan
eMail: daniel.kastl@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

Thank you, Regina!
And thank you, Darafei, for that blog post.

I think this thread (and motion) should also show that there are maintenance costs (time & money) and both are usually limited.
The alphaShape function doesn’t have a “healthy” balance between costs and use (probably). And Darafei’s post shows that there could be better solutions.

That said if someone’s business strongly depends on the alphaShape function, it’s probably a good time to speak up now … and eventually think of funding this functionality.

Best regards,
Daniel

···

Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan
eMail: daniel.kastl@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

Hi Darafei,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

I think there is a possibility to find people who care, so eventually we can encourage even some to sponsor option b).
Would you be interested to do this job? We can handle the “funding call”.

Best regards,
Daniel

···

Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan
eMail: daniel.kastl@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

Hello all,

Based on Nagase San comment, I was looking around, and as you can see here:
https://doc.cgal.org/latest/Manual/installation.html#installation_configwithcmake

CGAL starting from 5.0 works differently of what pgRouting 2.x is configured to work.

I was looking around and starting from focal, CGAL is 5.x

So keep the 2.x series with the new CGAL changes, that might need a lot of work.

Regards

···
Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@[georepublic.de](http://georepublic.de)
Web: [https://georepublic.info](https://georepublic.info)

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl

Yah I think CGAL 5.x switched to header only code. Made me really confused when I first looked at it because I was expecting after a compile I’d have a couple of libraries, but all I got were a bunch of header files so I thought I did something wrong.

SCGAL needed to make a lot of changes to get theirs to work with CGAL 5.x.

https://gitlab.com/Oslandia/SFCGAL/-/issues/234

Moving forward though I think it’s a good thing and now I have no CGAL library dependency anymore when I build SFCGAL.

I suspect they did that so they wouldn’t have packagers screaming at them all the time when they broke a ton of packages because of their changes. Now everything is baked into the applications that they need.

From: pgrouting-dev [mailto:pgrouting-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Vicky Vergara
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 2:28 PM
To: pgRouting developers mailing list pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [pgrouting-dev] MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support

Hello all,

Based on Nagase San comment, I was looking around, and as you can see here:
https://doc.cgal.org/latest/Manual/installation.html#installation_configwithcmake

CGAL starting from 5.0 works differently of what pgRouting 2.x is configured to work.

I was looking around and starting from focal, CGAL is 5.x

So keep the 2.x series with the new CGAL changes, that might need a lot of work.

Regards

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 8:33 PM Ko Nagase <nagase@georepublic.co.jp> wrote:

Hi Vicky, list,

The motion itself is okay for me, but about its application timing,
I prefer that after fixing the following 3.x alphaShape issues is better.

I will try to check the above issues after next week.

Regards,

2020年10月4日(日) 8:50 Regina Obe <lr@pcorp.us>:

+1

From: pgrouting-dev [mailto:pgrouting-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Rajat Shinde
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 6:41 AM
To: pgRouting developers mailing list <pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org>
Subject: Re: [pgrouting-dev] MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support

Hello Vicky, Hello Community Members,

Thanks for starting the motion.
I feel that the motion is apt as going ahead it would be more convenient for users to upgrade to the latest version.

My vote - +1.

Thanks.
Kind regards,
Rajat

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020, 9:14 AM Vicky Vergara <vicky@georepublic.de> wrote:
Hello community

I am making the following motion:
https://github.com/pgRouting/admin/wiki/MOTION-2:-Stop-2.x-series-support

Please use this mail thread to make comments and your community vote.
PSC members please vote on the motion.

Regards
Vicky


Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44,
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl


pgrouting-dev mailing list
pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pgrouting-dev


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合同会社 Georepublic Japan
〒658-0081 兵庫県神戸市東灘区田中町1丁目7-22
長瀬 興
mail: nagase@georepublic.co.jp


pgrouting-dev mailing list
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https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pgrouting-dev

Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@[georepublic.de](http://georepublic.de)
Web: [https://georepublic.info](https://georepublic.info)

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl

Hi Vicky, Regina, Darafei, Daniel,

Thanks for information about CGAL 5.x.
(I just noticed that my macOS homebrew CGAL version is already 5.1...
Also, I misread "focal" as "local", but it was Ubuntu 20.04 LTS version name...)

Definitely, it is quite difficult to install the older CGAL version to newer OS,
so I agree (+1) about the motion, regardless of the related issues
which I mentioned.

Also, about alpha shape implementation itself, I think that it is
worth considering
adding Darafei's proposal to pgRouting 3.x.

Regards,

2020年10月6日(火) 4:39 Regina Obe <lr@pcorp.us>:

Yah I think CGAL 5.x switched to header only code. Made me really confused when I first looked at it because I was expecting after a compile I’d have a couple of libraries, but all I got were a bunch of header files so I thought I did something wrong.

SCGAL needed to make a lot of changes to get theirs to work with CGAL 5.x.

SFCGAL head doesn't compile against CGAL 5.1.0beta1 (#234) · Issues · SFCGAL / SFCGAL · GitLab

Moving forward though I think it’s a good thing and now I have no CGAL library dependency anymore when I build SFCGAL.

I suspect they did that so they wouldn’t have packagers screaming at them all the time when they broke a ton of packages because of their changes. Now everything is baked into the applications that they need.

From: pgrouting-dev [mailto:pgrouting-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Vicky Vergara
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 2:28 PM
To: pgRouting developers mailing list <pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org>
Subject: Re: [pgrouting-dev] MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support

Hello all,

Based on Nagase San comment, I was looking around, and as you can see here:
CGAL 5.6 - Manual: Installing CGAL libraries

CGAL starting from 5.0 works differently of what pgRouting 2.x is configured to work.

I was looking around and starting from focal, CGAL is 5.x

So keep the 2.x series with the new CGAL changes, that might need a lot of work.

Regards

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 8:33 PM Ko Nagase <nagase@georepublic.co.jp> wrote:

Hi Vicky, list,

The motion itself is okay for me, but about its application timing,
I prefer that after fixing the following 3.x alphaShape issues is better.

- Significant drop in performance when using new pgr_alphashape function · Issue #1345 · pgRouting/pgrouting · GitHub
- pgr_alphaShape sometimes fails (parse error - invalid geometry) · Issue #1603 · pgRouting/pgrouting · GitHub

I will try to check the above issues after next week.

Regards,

2020年10月4日(日) 8:50 Regina Obe <lr@pcorp.us>:
> +1
>
> From: pgrouting-dev [mailto:pgrouting-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Rajat Shinde
> Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 6:41 AM
> To: pgRouting developers mailing list <pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [pgrouting-dev] MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support
>
> Hello Vicky, Hello Community Members,
>
> Thanks for starting the motion.
> I feel that the motion is apt as going ahead it would be more convenient for users to upgrade to the latest version.
>
> My vote - +1.
>
> Thanks.
> Kind regards,
> Rajat
>
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2020, 9:14 AM Vicky Vergara <vicky@georepublic.de> wrote:
> Hello community
>
> I am making the following motion:
> MOTION 2: Stop 2.x series support · pgRouting/admin Wiki · GitHub
>
> Please use this mail thread to make comments and your community vote.
> PSC members please vote on the motion.
>
> Regards
> Vicky
>
> --
> Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
> Salzmannstraße 44,
> 81739 München, Germany
>
> Vicky Vergara
> Operations Research
>
> eMail: vicky@georepublic.de
> Web: https://georepublic.info
>
> Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
> Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9
>
> Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
> CEO: Daniel Kastl
>
> _______________________________________________
> pgrouting-dev mailing list
> pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org
> pgrouting-dev Info Page
> _______________________________________________
> pgrouting-dev mailing list
> pgrouting-dev@lists.osgeo.org
> pgrouting-dev Info Page

--
合同会社 Georepublic Japan
〒658-0081 兵庫県神戸市東灘区田中町1丁目7-22
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mail: nagase@georepublic.co.jp
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--

Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)

Salzmannstraße 44,

81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara

Operations Research

eMail: vicky@georepublic.de

Web: https://georepublic.info

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1

Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428

CEO: Daniel Kastl

_______________________________________________
pgrouting-dev mailing list
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pgrouting-dev Info Page

--
合同会社 Georepublic Japan
〒658-0081 兵庫県神戸市東灘区田中町1丁目7-22
長瀬 興
mail: nagase@georepublic.co.jp

Hello community

Motion 2 has passed.

Thanks for your participation and we will consider about the future of pgr_alphaShape

Due to the fact that there is a lot of participation I will copy the motions (there are only two of them) to issues
https://github.com/pgRouting/admin/issues/37
https://github.com/pgRouting/admin/issues/36

In the future, motions will be done directly in the issues.

···
Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@[georepublic.de](http://georepublic.de)
Web: [https://georepublic.info](https://georepublic.info)

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl