#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Keywords:
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According to last board meeting
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2015-09-19#Motions_.28confirmed_by_email.29
I created osgeo.org bussiness acout by Google and I would like to setup
some mail addresses and aliases for already existing users we have at our
servers (e.g. president@osgeo.org, but also private mails)...
Could you help me please on that?
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Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by martin):
When making decisions concerning SAC work, why don't you negotiate with
the affected people *beforehand* ? Or did you actually do so and I just
didn't notice ?
I'm in the middle of preparations for migrating the OSGeo Mail to our
shiny new hardware "osgeo6" because that's been marked as being essential:
http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/sac/2015-August/005741.html
.... and I wonder from where I should draw motivation to continue this
sort of work when I'm at risk that people are obsoleting my work just the
next day without prior notice (!).
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Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:1>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by warmerdam):
Jachym, I assume one of the things you need is access to the aliases file
currently used for the various @osgeo.org email addresses? I can get that
for you if it helps. Is there anything else you were wanting? Were you
thinking that the OSGeo secretary role would be responsible for the
@osgeo.org level email forwarding via Google? Or were you wanting SAC to
administer this Google account?
Martin, I assume your migration was primarily the mailman services, right?
I'm pretty sure that isn't what Jachym is talking about and that is
certainly still a critical service.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:2>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by martin):
I'm migrating all of OSGeo mail in order to prevent things from breaking
down due to hardware failure on "osgeo4" (see Alex' posting).
Unfortunately it's unclear to me what the actual intention is. If they're
aiming at registering "@osgeo.org" addresses with Google then things might
get slightly complicated because "@osgeo.org" is being hosted at OSGeo
infrastructure, not at Google.
In any case they should discuss their plans with active admins *before*
making decisions.
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Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:3>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by jachym):
Hi Martin,
yes, I'm aware, it might look bad from your perspective. Take this ticket
(and mail) as exactly start of the discussion (we can always close it
down, but SAC is always requiring tickets, so here I am).
As Frank writes: this meant to be for easier control of mails of
individual people - there is no plan (and no reason so far) to move the
whole mailing list infrastructure to any external service provider.
Also as Frank writes: yes, management of individual mails (e.g. for board
members and other official roles) could be therefore managed by secretary
(for the moment, it's me) and SAC could focus on more important tasks then
(sorry, if it looks, like a try to get rid of SAC - absolutely NO, we
would like you to focus on important thinks, not to switch mail addresses
every two years).
Frank: I have actually the list of aliases (send by Jorge), but
coordination with SAC is a must, if I understand correctly, we would like
to move only few accounts to Google, not the whole alias file. I would
appreciate any help in that.
NOTE: There is more we are trying to fix with that. Files sharing with
access control, collaborative document writing, etc.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:4>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by martin):
The point is:
We can't split "<whichever_name>@osgeo.org" between OSGeo infrastructure
and Google. We either need to move *every* genuine address in the
"@osgeo.org" namespace to Google or *none*. Just moving some central,
administrative addresses like "president@osgeo.org" or
"treasurer@osgeo.org" to Google and keeping other addresses in the same
namespace on our own infrastructure is close to technically impossible (it
might be possible but *if* it works it'll be a terrible hack and you
certainly don't want to be responsible for debugging if it fails).
Of course we can set up a forwarder to accept "president@osgeo.org" on our
own infrastructure first and afterwards map it to a different address at
Google (or somewhere else), but that's what we're already doing right now
with some addresses (including "president") and doesn't require any
changes.
If everything you're aiming at is a means to facilitate management of
private mailboxes in "@osgeo.org" namespace, then "postfixadmin" might be
the tool you want - to be run on our own mailserver. Setting up such a
tool is a *lot* easier than maintaining ugly hacks.
Therefore: Please negotiate *before* making decisions.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:5>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by wildintellect):
In my email to the board, I specifically asked for a ticket in order to
discuss the options. This ticket should not require any action beside
research into how we might outsource the @osgeo.org mailboxes, and to
which services might be used.
I'm a -1 on any immediate actions to reconfigure specifically because
there has no been discussion or plan made.
Things to do:
1. Figure out what services and how many boxes this affects
2. Make a list of 3rd party mail services with pros/cons/cost
3. Figure out what configuration changes would need to happen on our end
4. Figure out how to grant access to the right people to the correct
boxes.
We need people to please volunteer to tackle each of these tasks and
should put all the information in a wiki page. Then we can give the
information to the board for their choice and schedule an implementation
timeline.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:6>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
Would it be simpler to do something like use a new domain, OSGeo.io or something like that, and then keep the OSGeo.org aliases and point them to the .io addresses? This is assuming we do go with an external hosted email service.
Note that this is just a question to SAC and not a request.
Michael Smith
Remote Sensing/GIS Center
US Army Corps of Engineers
On Sep 26, 2015, at 2:40 PM, OSGeo <trac_osgeo@osgeo.org> wrote:
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by wildintellect):
In my email to the board, I specifically asked for a ticket in order to
discuss the options. This ticket should not require any action beside
research into how we might outsource the @osgeo.org mailboxes, and to
which services might be used.
I'm a -1 on any immediate actions to reconfigure specifically because
there has no been discussion or plan made.
Things to do:
1. Figure out what services and how many boxes this affects
2. Make a list of 3rd party mail services with pros/cons/cost
3. Figure out what configuration changes would need to happen on our end
4. Figure out how to grant access to the right people to the correct
boxes.
We need people to please volunteer to tackle each of these tasks and
should put all the information in a wiki page. Then we can give the
information to the board for their choice and schedule an implementation
timeline.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:6>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
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Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by astrodog):
Unfortunately, there's no particularly clean way to make this kind of
split. The MX record for osgeo.org has to point to a specific set of
infrastructure. This means that the only three options are:
* Keep the MX record pointed at OSGeo, and set up aliases there to forward
things for specific addresses to third-party services. (As I understand
things, this is how it works now)
* Point the MX record at Google, and set up forwarding or mailbox
collection there to deliver some subset of the addresses running to OSGeo.
This is probably the most technically fragile option.
* Point the MX record for "osgeo.org" to Google, and the MX record for
"lists.osgeo.org" to OSGeo's infrastructure. This takes care of the
mailing lists, but means all osgeo.org addresses are hosted at google.
There isn't a way, technically, to have mail for a single host effectively
split between two providers. In the end, it has to be forwarded from one
side to the other. That isn't too terrible to accomplish, but it means
properly functioning infrastructure depends on *both* sets being up, which
may not be what people are intending here.
From a time management perspective, it's also worth keeping in mind that
all of these options also require manual intervention from SAC to handle
new addresses, lists, etc.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:7>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by wildintellect):
I think option 3 is what is likely:
"Point the MX record for "osgeo.org" to Google, and the MX record for
"lists.osgeo.org" to OSGeo's infrastructure. This takes care of the
mailing lists, but means all osgeo.org addresses are hosted at google"
Which implies, that yes all @osgeo.org addresses would be 3rd party
outsourced managed. It sounds like a service with a good management
interface, including aliases would be a requirement.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:8>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by msmitherdc):
What about using a different domain, something like osgeo.io or something
similar and just keep the @osgeo.org redirects to those new addresses?
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Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:9>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by wildintellect):
Replying to [comment:9 msmitherdc]:
> What about using a different domain, something like osgeo.io or
something similar and just keep the @osgeo.org redirects to those new
addresses?
How is that different from the current arrangement? Where current users
can choose any email service they want their alias to point to. Google,
Thunderbird, etc are smart enough to be able to reply as alias based on
the To:
And would require 0 new work on SAC side.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:10>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by jachym):
@wildintellect, @martin: yes this ticket was meant as "starting point for
discussion" (even I agree, it seems to be formulated as "taking action,
deal with it" - sorry for that).
Our target is (to state more clearly): Take some work from SAC and
transfer it to e.g. secretary, so we can be more flexible, e.g. setting up
mails (e.g. new board members, every 2 years), keeping track of mails for
representatives (when secretary changes, he/she should have history of the
previous mails for some unresolved tasks e.g.), easier file sharing etc.
(already mentioned).
I'm not very familiar with setting up mail infrastructure, but I can
understand, that "splitting" one domain between more servers is not
technically possible. Any proposal (like @osgeo.org to external service,
@mail.osgeo.org to osgeo, or osgeo.io to google, and few mail forwards
from osgeo.org to external service ..) is welcomed.
I'm really asking SAC for best solution on this: you are the once, who
will have to set things up, I believe, you will come up with best
solution. If there is anything I could do for your support, let me know
please.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:11>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by martin):
To be honest, I'm still waiting for a clear description of what you're
aiming at. Most proposals in this thread still look to me like defining
the goal via the favourite tool. That's the wrong direction, I'd say (like
hammering screws into the wall because hammering looks easier to you than
using a screwdriver, and btw., the hammer is cheaper ....).
If everybody agrees that the underlying intention wrt. EMail is to
facilitate maintenance of private EMail accounts within the "@osgeo.org"
domain, then let's declare this as the basis for a discussion on how to
get there. If not, then let's _refine_ the goal but _refrain_ from
evaluating the tools before the goal is clear.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:12>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution:
Keywords: |
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Comment (by neteler):
Replying to [comment:11 jachym]:
> @wildintellect, @martin: yes this ticket was meant as "starting point
for discussion" (even I agree, it seems to be formulated as "taking
action, deal with it" - sorry for that).
As a SAC member, I strongly recommend to the board to set up a *wiki* page
describing their goals.
A ticket system is not ideal for a discussion and wishes and comments are
already scattered here over 11+ comments.
The stated target to "Take some work from SAC" is nice but not yet clear
at all. "setting up mails (e.g. new board members, every 2 years)" takes
rather seconds than minutes and is not an issue at all.
I am guessing that you want to provide mailboxes to some OSGeo roles or to
some community members or to..? Please add this to the wiki page. You want
file sharing tools like self-hosted owncloud/seafile for the board? Likely
doable.
As a SAC member I don't agree to the view that all stuff should be
outsourced to 3ed parties for the following reasons
* sensitive data should be hosted on OSGeo hardware to keep control.
* nobody knows about the future of the respective 3rd party services.
* OSGeo SAC members are happy to contribute to the infrastructure
maintenance. It is also a way for us to keep up to date with technology.
Obviously things can be improved as always in life.
* An OSGeo which would literally come without infrastructure is too
virtual for me.
Selected stuff may be outsourced but only after a careful assessment and
SWOT.
> If there is anything I could do for your support, let me know please.
Yes: create a Wiki page and collect all information there which has
already been asked in this ticket. Add that we discuss individual
mailboxes here, not the list server with mailman.
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:13>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.
#1547: Move mails to Gmail
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Reporter: jachym | Owner: sac@…
Type: task | Status: closed
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: Systems Admin | Resolution: invalid
Keywords: |
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Changes (by jachym):
* status: new => closed
* resolution: => invalid
Comment:
@neteler: that makes sense too .. ok, closing this ticket and creating
wiki http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_infrastructure
--
Ticket URL: <https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1547#comment:14>
OSGeo <http://www.osgeo.org/>
OSGeo committee and general foundation issue tracker.