[SAC] [OSGeo-Discuss] Mantra for osgeo id?

Can we change the directions for this so people do not go to -discuss? It is a waste of people’s attention to be sending this stuff there, and it will cause people to leave the list.

Howard

Begin forwarded message:

From: James Ramm <jamessramm@gmail.com>

Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mantra for osgeo id?

Date: May 24, 2016 at 5:34:25 AM CDT

To: Discuss@lists.osgeo.org

Hi
I’d like to raise tickets and submit patches on the gdal trac, is it possible to get a ‘mantra’ so I can create a user id?
Thanks
James


Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:28:59AM -0500, Howard Butler wrote:

Can we change the directions for this so people do not go to -discuss? It is a waste of people's attention to be sending this stuff there, and it will cause people to leave the list.

I was hoping for the mantra to become a way to get new users
known at registration time, maybe we could add a recomandation
to include such presentation in the email ? Would it be better ?

Or would there be another more appropriate "welcome" list for
new users ?

Most people showing up end up having very specific needs for an
account, that is, for a specific project, should we help them
figuring out the appropriate mailing list for the specific
project ?

--strk;

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:37 AM, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:28:59AM -0500, Howard Butler wrote:

Can we change the directions for this so people do not go to -discuss? It is a waste of people's attention to be sending this stuff there, and it will cause people to leave the list.

I was hoping for the mantra to become a way to get new users
known at registration time, maybe we could add a recomandation
to include such presentation in the email ? Would it be better ?

Or would there be another more appropriate "welcome" list for
new users ?

This email list seems logical since it is where the people who can
give out the mantra are located.

I see getting the mantra more as a technical hurdle, not a welcome or
introduction. Introductions might be appropriate for a small list
like the conference committee or journal but are not appropriate for a
large 10,000+ list like discuss.

Most people showing up end up having very specific needs for an
account, that is, for a specific project, should we help them
figuring out the appropriate mailing list for the specific
project ?

Most people already know their specific needs, i.e. James knew exactly
what he wanted to do pertaining to GDAL.

Best regards, Eli

--strk;

_______________________________________________
Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:20:11AM -0700, Eli Adam wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:37 AM, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:28:59AM -0500, Howard Butler wrote:
>> Can we change the directions for this so people do not go to -discuss? It is a waste of people's attention to be sending this stuff there, and it will cause people to leave the list.
>
> I was hoping for the mantra to become a way to get new users
> known at registration time, maybe we could add a recomandation
> to include such presentation in the email ? Would it be better ?
>
> Or would there be another more appropriate "welcome" list for
> new users ?

This email list seems logical since it is where the people who can
give out the mantra are located.

Actually I wanted the mantra to be more easily shared with trusted
people. For example we might use a wiki page only visible by
a team that's easy to add/remove by others, like this maybe:

https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/sac/userid-mantra/wiki/Home

(requires logging in and being either part of SAC or of a dedicated
team called "mantra-readers").

I see getting the mantra more as a technical hurdle, not a welcome or
introduction. Introductions might be appropriate for a small list
like the conference committee or journal but are not appropriate for a
large 10,000+ list like discuss.

The thing is you have to subscribe in order to send an email, but the
"discuss" list is the only one that's generic enough to be appropriate
for all users, no matter their specific interest.

For now I just removed the option of sending a mail to a mailing list.

Most people already know their specific needs, i.e. James knew exactly
what he wanted to do pertaining to GDAL.

Shall you have better ideas for wording of the page, please send
proposals.

For SAC members: the current text can be seen in the web-cgi-bin
repo on Gogs:
https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/sac/web-cgi-bin/src/master/NEEDMANTRA.html

--strk;

On 24 May 2016 at 17:53, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:20:11AM -0700, Eli Adam wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:37 AM, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:28:59AM -0500, Howard Butler wrote:
>> Can we change the directions for this so people do not go to -discuss? It is a waste of people's attention to be sending this stuff there, and it will cause people to leave the list.
>
> I was hoping for the mantra to become a way to get new users
> known at registration time, maybe we could add a recomandation
> to include such presentation in the email ? Would it be better ?
>
> Or would there be another more appropriate "welcome" list for
> new users ?

This email list seems logical since it is where the people who can
give out the mantra are located.

Actually I wanted the mantra to be more easily shared with trusted
people. For example (...)

Is CAPTCHA really insufficient solution?

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

On 05/24/2016 08:56 AM, Mateusz Loskot wrote:

On 24 May 2016 at 17:53, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:20:11AM -0700, Eli Adam wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:37 AM, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:28:59AM -0500, Howard Butler wrote:

Can we change the directions for this so people do not go to -discuss? It is a waste of people's attention to be sending this stuff there, and it will cause people to leave the list.

I was hoping for the mantra to become a way to get new users
known at registration time, maybe we could add a recomandation
to include such presentation in the email ? Would it be better ?

Or would there be another more appropriate "welcome" list for
new users ?

This email list seems logical since it is where the people who can
give out the mantra are located.

Actually I wanted the mantra to be more easily shared with trusted
people. For example (...)

Is CAPTCHA really insufficient solution?

Best regards,

Yes, the spammer was a human, not a bot. Sandro has a log of a
conversation where the person tried to obtain a mantra on IRC.

I think a web page with embedded IRC or moderator workflow could work.

Thanks,
Alex

On May 24, 2016, at 9:37 AM, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:28:59AM -0500, Howard Butler wrote:

Can we change the directions for this so people do not go to -discuss? It is a waste of people's attention to be sending this stuff there, and it will cause people to leave the list.

I was hoping for the mantra to become a way to get new users
known at registration time, maybe we could add a recomandation
to include such presentation in the email ? Would it be better ?

Or would there be another more appropriate "welcome" list for
new users ?

Most people showing up end up having very specific needs for an
account, that is, for a specific project, should we help them
figuring out the appropriate mailing list for the specific
project ?

Any list is fine with me other than -discuss. We don't want people sending login requests to 1500 people.

Howard

On 24 May 2016 at 18:03, Alex M <tech_dev@wildintellect.com> wrote:

On 05/24/2016 08:56 AM, Mateusz Loskot wrote:

On 24 May 2016 at 17:53, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:20:11AM -0700, Eli Adam wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:37 AM, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 08:28:59AM -0500, Howard Butler wrote:

Can we change the directions for this so people do not go to -discuss? It is a waste of people's attention to be sending this stuff there, and it will cause people to leave the list.

I was hoping for the mantra to become a way to get new users
known at registration time, maybe we could add a recomandation
to include such presentation in the email ? Would it be better ?

Or would there be another more appropriate "welcome" list for
new users ?

This email list seems logical since it is where the people who can
give out the mantra are located.

Actually I wanted the mantra to be more easily shared with trusted
people. For example (...)

Is CAPTCHA really insufficient solution?

Yes, the spammer was a human, not a bot. Sandro has a log of a
conversation where the person tried to obtain a mantra on IRC.

Alex,

So, mantra prevented a handful of one human spammer.
IMHO, the ratio of work required to answer mantra requests to spammers
caught is too high to justify use of mantra as better solution than captcha.

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net