[SAC] replacing IRC with gitter

Committees SAC mailing list
1

Last week the board decided to try some new technologies that members have used on other projects.

···
  • To replace IRC —> gitter (like slack but more integrated with github)

To that end I would like ask how we should set up gitter on the SAC mailing list before opening up a ticket or doing the work myself.

OSGeo does have a hit repo here (https://github.com/osgeo).

I know for the geoserver project (as a repo admin) we were able to set up a private channel for use in code-sprints (https://gitter.im/orgs/geoserver/rooms). It looks like we may be able to allow people to sign in with github or twitter.

Could I ask to be added as and admin to https://github.com/OSGeo for experimentation?

–
Jody Garnett

2

On 31 August 2016 at 22:17, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@gmail.com> wrote:

To that end I would like ask how we should set up gitter on the SAC mailing
list before opening up a ticket or doing the work myself.

OSGeo does have a hit repo here (https://github.com/osgeo).

I know for the geoserver project (as a repo admin) we were able to set up a
private channel for use in code-sprints
(https://gitter.im/orgs/geoserver/rooms). It looks like we may be able to
allow people to sign in with github or twitter.

There is OSGeo rooms, as well as OSGeo/tilecache room already created:

https://gitter.im/orgs/OSGeo/rooms

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

3

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 01:17:01PM -0700, Jody Garnett wrote:

Last week the board decided to try some new technologies that members have
used on other projects.

- To replace email voting --> Loomio (Anita has already set up
https://www.loomio.org/g/kdSmIwxu/osgeo-board )
- To replace IRC ---> gitter (like slack but more integrated with github)

Just to add some prospective: Loomio is free software [1], while
Gitter is proprietary. An alternative to Gitter, with LDAP support,
could be https://www.mattermost.org/features/ -- please consider
giving it a try. NOTE: mattermost is written in Go (making it very
easy to deploy) and supports a PostgreSQL backend.

It looks like we may be able to allow people to sign in with github
or twitter.

A self-hosted solution would allow people to sign in with their
OSGeo Userid.

See also https://opensource.com/alternatives/slack

--strk;

4

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:43:43PM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 01:17:01PM -0700, Jody Garnett wrote:
> Last week the board decided to try some new technologies that members have
> used on other projects.
>
> - To replace email voting --> Loomio (Anita has already set up
> https://www.loomio.org/g/kdSmIwxu/osgeo-board )
> - To replace IRC ---> gitter (like slack but more integrated with github)

Just to add some prospective: Loomio is free software [1], while

I forgot the link:
[1] https://github.com/loomio/loomio/blob/master/LICENSE.txt

--strk;

5

Hi,

On 31/08/2016 22:17, Jody Garnett wrote:

Last week the board decided to try some new technologies that members
have used on other projects.

- To replace email voting --> Loomio (Anita has already set
up https://www.loomio.org/g/kdSmIwxu/osgeo-board )
- To replace IRC ---> gitter (like slack but more integrated with github)

I do not want to play my old-fashioned guy, but replacing standard
technologies with proprietary protocols and tools, which each require
its own authentication and login, does not really seem to be very
logical wrt OSGeo's goals.

Gitter/Slack is especially worst, as it is closed protocol with
proprietary software.. Do we really want to be dependent on this kind of
tool ?
As a not-that-worst alternative as sandro said, mattermost can replace
slack. Note that it can also be integrated fully into gitlab, and the
latest versions seem to have a IRC bridge.

Vincent

To that end I would like ask how we should set up gitter on the SAC
mailing list before opening up a ticket or doing the work myself.

OSGeo does have a hit repo here (https://github.com/osgeo).

I know for the geoserver project (as a repo admin) we were able to set
up a private channel for use in code-sprints
(https://gitter.im/orgs/geoserver/rooms). It looks like we may be able
to allow people to sign in with github or twitter.

Could I ask to be added as and admin to https://github.com/OSGeo for
experimentation?

--
Jody Garnett

_______________________________________________
Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac

6

Hi Vincent,

On Thu, 01. Sep 2016 at 09:59:02 +0200, Vincent Picavet (ml) wrote:

Gitter/Slack is especially worst, as it is closed protocol with
proprietary software.. Do we really want to be dependent on this kind of
tool ?
As a not-that-worst alternative as sandro said, mattermost can replace
slack. Note that it can also be integrated fully into gitlab, and the
latest versions seem to have a IRC bridge.

Gitter and Slack also have IRC servers.

But it's also the fragmentation that does harm. Some people stay on the
(FreeNode) IRC channels and some move to Gitter and/or Slack, some join both.

QGIS on FreeNode used to be very lively, which changed when gitter was
introduced - and my impression is that there is now less activity overall.

Jürgen

--
Jürgen E. Fischer norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13 Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer D-26506 Norden http://www.norbit.de
QGIS release manager (PSC) Germany IRC: jef on FreeNode

7

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 09:59:02AM +0200, Vincent Picavet (ml) wrote:

As a not-that-worst alternative as sandro said, mattermost can replace
slack. Note that it can also be integrated fully into gitlab, and the
latest versions seem to have a IRC bridge.

I was reading yesterday that having Mattermost a slack-compatible
API it can also be integrated fully into Gogs.

--strk;

8

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 10:30:22AM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 09:59:02AM +0200, Vincent Picavet (ml) wrote:

> As a not-that-worst alternative as sandro said, mattermost can replace
> slack. Note that it can also be integrated fully into gitlab, and the
> latest versions seem to have a IRC bridge.

I was reading yesterday that having Mattermost a slack-compatible
API it can also be integrated fully into Gogs.

Actually, I've just found out Mattermost also has a free/non-free
(opencore) business model. The LDAP login is only with the
"Enterprise edition":

https://about.mattermost.com/pricing/

Let's forget it, not worth the trouble.
I hope to be still able in the future to talk with you all via IRC.

--strk;

9

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:08:12PM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 10:30:22AM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 09:59:02AM +0200, Vincent Picavet (ml) wrote:
>
> > As a not-that-worst alternative as sandro said, mattermost can replace
> > slack. Note that it can also be integrated fully into gitlab, and the
> > latest versions seem to have a IRC bridge.
>
> I was reading yesterday that having Mattermost a slack-compatible
> API it can also be integrated fully into Gogs.

Actually, I've just found out Mattermost also has a free/non-free
(opencore) business model. The LDAP login is only with the
"Enterprise edition":

https://about.mattermost.com/pricing/

Let's forget it, not worth the trouble.
I hope to be still able in the future to talk with you all via IRC.

It looks like this MIT licenced project has full LDAP support:
https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat

They also offer deploy and maintainance services:
https://rocket.chat/services

It's in JavaScript/Coffescript rather than Go,
but nobody is perfect :stuck_out_tongue:

--strk;

10

On 1 September 2016 at 12:34, Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io> wrote:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:08:12PM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 10:30:22AM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 09:59:02AM +0200, Vincent Picavet (ml) wrote:
>
> > As a not-that-worst alternative as sandro said, mattermost can replace
> > slack. Note that it can also be integrated fully into gitlab, and the
> > latest versions seem to have a IRC bridge.
>
> I was reading yesterday that having Mattermost a slack-compatible
> API it can also be integrated fully into Gogs.

Actually, I've just found out Mattermost also has a free/non-free
(opencore) business model. The LDAP login is only with the
"Enterprise edition":

https://about.mattermost.com/pricing/

Let's forget it, not worth the trouble.
I hope to be still able in the future to talk with you all via IRC.

It looks like this MIT licenced project has full LDAP support:
https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat

Yet another list of alternatives
https://github.com/cjbarber/hipchat-alternatives

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

11

2016-09-01 12:08 GMT+02:00 Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io>:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 10:30:22AM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 09:59:02AM +0200, Vincent Picavet (ml) wrote:
>
> > As a not-that-worst alternative as sandro said, mattermost can replace
> > slack. Note that it can also be integrated fully into gitlab, and the
> > latest versions seem to have a IRC bridge.
>
> I was reading yesterday that having Mattermost a slack-compatible
> API it can also be integrated fully into Gogs.

Actually, I've just found out Mattermost also has a free/non-free
(opencore) business model. The LDAP login is only with the
"Enterprise edition":

While I also feel that the open core can be hard to swallow I noted that if
Mattermost is used with GitLab CE it will work with the LDAP integration:

https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-mattermost

https://about.mattermost.com/pricing/

Let's forget it, not worth the trouble.
I hope to be still able in the future to talk with you all via IRC.

Agreed. I also agree with what Jürgen wrote about the downside of
fragmentation and while that also might be inevitable if there is to be
freedom, it would be good if a single channel is encouraged from the
organisation.

--strk;
_______________________________________________
Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac

12

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:51:50PM +0200, Björn Harrtell wrote:

While I also feel that the open core can be hard to swallow I noted that if
Mattermost is used with GitLab CE it will work with the LDAP integration:

https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-mattermost

Interesting. It looks like Drone, which basically delegates
authentication to the "git hoster" (I did setup one for the OSGeo Gogs).

Are you up to add gitlab-mattermost to the experimental GitLab
service ? Ideally with an IRC bridge to existing IRC channels ?

> I hope to be still able in the future to talk with you all via IRC.

Agreed. I also agree with what Jürgen wrote about the downside of
fragmentation and while that also might be inevitable if there is to be
freedom, it would be good if a single channel is encouraged from the
organisation.

The "bridge" would maybe just add a layer on top of existing IRC
channels (but I hadn't tried it).

--strk;

13

2016-09-01 13:59 GMT+02:00 Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io>:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:51:50PM +0200, Björn Harrtell wrote:

> While I also feel that the open core can be hard to swallow I noted that
if
> Mattermost is used with GitLab CE it will work with the LDAP integration:
>
> https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-mattermost

Interesting. It looks like Drone, which basically delegates
authentication to the "git hoster" (I did setup one for the OSGeo Gogs).

Are you up to add gitlab-mattermost to the experimental GitLab
service ? Ideally with an IRC bridge to existing IRC channels ?

Yes, it is something I'm interested to know more about so I will take a
shot at it when time permits.

> > I hope to be still able in the future to talk with you all via IRC.
>
> Agreed. I also agree with what Jürgen wrote about the downside of
> fragmentation and while that also might be inevitable if there is to be
> freedom, it would be good if a single channel is encouraged from the
> organisation.

The "bridge" would maybe just add a layer on top of existing IRC
channels (but I hadn't tried it).

--strk;

14

While I agree with much of what is being said here and I prefer the
open nature of IRC complete with logs,
http://irclogs.geoapt.com/osgeo/, that isn't what Jody asked or
necessarily the role of SAC. Looking at the Board notes,
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2016-8-24#revision_of_tools_facilitating_board_meetings,
this is a three month experiment.

If the Board wants to try what some of us might think are stupid
things, that is their option.

Returning to Jody's original message:

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@gmail.com> wrote:

Last week the board decided to try some new technologies that members have
used on other projects.

- To replace email voting --> Loomio (Anita has already set up
https://www.loomio.org/g/kdSmIwxu/osgeo-board )
- To replace IRC ---> gitter (like slack but more integrated with github)

To that end I would like ask how we should set up gitter on the SAC mailing
list before opening up a ticket or doing the work myself.

He asks for information and also offers to do the work.

OSGeo does have a hit repo here (https://github.com/osgeo).

I know for the geoserver project (as a repo admin) we were able to set up a
private channel for use in code-sprints
(https://gitter.im/orgs/geoserver/rooms). It looks like we may be able to
allow people to sign in with github or twitter.

Could I ask to be added as and admin to https://github.com/OSGeo for
experimentation?

And he makes a specific permissions request.

Maybe Mateusz's answer of the existing rooms already addresses this in part:

"There is OSGeo rooms, as well as OSGeo/tilecache room already created:

https://gitter.im/orgs/OSGeo/rooms&quot;

Best regards, Eli

--
Jody Garnett

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 6:34 AM, Björn Harrtell <bjorn.harrtell@gmail.com> wrote:

2016-09-01 13:59 GMT+02:00 Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io>:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:51:50PM +0200, Björn Harrtell wrote:

> While I also feel that the open core can be hard to swallow I noted that
> if
> Mattermost is used with GitLab CE it will work with the LDAP
> integration:
>
> https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-mattermost

Interesting. It looks like Drone, which basically delegates
authentication to the "git hoster" (I did setup one for the OSGeo Gogs).

Are you up to add gitlab-mattermost to the experimental GitLab
service ? Ideally with an IRC bridge to existing IRC channels ?

Yes, it is something I'm interested to know more about so I will take a shot
at it when time permits.

> > I hope to be still able in the future to talk with you all via IRC.
>
> Agreed. I also agree with what Jürgen wrote about the downside of
> fragmentation and while that also might be inevitable if there is to be
> freedom, it would be good if a single channel is encouraged from the
> organisation.

The "bridge" would maybe just add a layer on top of existing IRC
channels (but I hadn't tried it).

--strk;

_______________________________________________
Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac

15

2016-09-01 15:34 GMT+02:00 Björn Harrtell <bjorn.harrtell@gmail.com>:

2016-09-01 13:59 GMT+02:00 Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io>:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:51:50PM +0200, Björn Harrtell wrote:

> While I also feel that the open core can be hard to swallow I noted
that if
> Mattermost is used with GitLab CE it will work with the LDAP
integration:
>
> https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-mattermost

Interesting. It looks like Drone, which basically delegates
authentication to the "git hoster" (I did setup one for the OSGeo Gogs).

Are you up to add gitlab-mattermost to the experimental GitLab
service ? Ideally with an IRC bridge to existing IRC channels ?

Yes, it is something I'm interested to know more about so I will take a
shot at it when time permits.

I've investigated the requirements to enable Mattermost on the GitLab
installation. It seems it requires a separate virtual host and expects to
be accessible at the root path on that host. It's probably possible to get
around this but would require more knowledge about ngnix than I currently
have and will result in a customized installation that may not be
upgradable.

The officially supported IRC bridge (matterbridge) does seem promising and
well received by the community.

> > I hope to be still able in the future to talk with you all via IRC.

>
> Agreed. I also agree with what Jürgen wrote about the downside of
> fragmentation and while that also might be inevitable if there is to be
> freedom, it would be good if a single channel is encouraged from the
> organisation.

The "bridge" would maybe just add a layer on top of existing IRC
channels (but I hadn't tried it).

--strk;

16

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 09:59:53PM +0200, Björn Harrtell wrote:

I've investigated the requirements to enable Mattermost on the GitLab
installation. It seems it requires a separate virtual host and expects to
be accessible at the root path on that host.

I can point a osgeo.kbt.io subdomain to that IP if it helps testing further.
(the domain is already used for an experimental drone instance).
Note that a top domain would require a proper ssl cert (letsencrypt
is great at this with apache, but not so great with nginx).

--strk;

17

2016-09-01 22:39 GMT+02:00 Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io>:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 09:59:53PM +0200, Björn Harrtell wrote:

> I've investigated the requirements to enable Mattermost on the GitLab
> installation. It seems it requires a separate virtual host and expects to
> be accessible at the root path on that host.

I can point a osgeo.kbt.io subdomain to that IP if it helps testing
further.
(the domain is already used for an experimental drone instance).
Note that a top domain would require a proper ssl cert (letsencrypt
is great at this with apache, but not so great with nginx).

Great, lets do that. I've already ran the initial setup so if it works out

Mattermost should be available at https://osgeo.kbt.io when pointed.

--strk;

18

I think the point for these ones is that there are phone apps, modern browser based front ends etc…

I think we could also respect that our board is not made up of devs per say and different technologies may be appropriate. The board already uses a private dropbox for documents (rather than private svn like the marketing committee).

···

On 1 September 2016 at 00:59, Vincent Picavet (ml) <vincent.ml@oslandia.com> wrote:

Hi,

On 31/08/2016 22:17, Jody Garnett wrote:

Last week the board decided to try some new technologies that members
have used on other projects.

I do not want to play my old-fashioned guy, but replacing standard
technologies with proprietary protocols and tools, which each require
its own authentication and login, does not really seem to be very
logical wrt OSGeo’s goals.

Gitter/Slack is especially worst, as it is closed protocol with
proprietary software… Do we really want to be dependent on this kind of
tool ?
As a not-that-worst alternative as sandro said, mattermost can replace
slack. Note that it can also be integrated fully into gitlab, and the
latest versions seem to have a IRC bridge.

Vincent

To that end I would like ask how we should set up gitter on the SAC
mailing list before opening up a ticket or doing the work myself.

OSGeo does have a hit repo here (https://github.com/osgeo).

I know for the geoserver project (as a repo admin) we were able to set
up a private channel for use in code-sprints
(https://gitter.im/orgs/geoserver/rooms). It looks like we may be able
to allow people to sign in with github or twitter.

Could I ask to be added as and admin to https://github.com/OSGeo for
experimentation?

–
Jody Garnett

Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac

Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac

–
Jody Garnett

19

Thanks Eli, I am kind of only the messenger - if I can be added to the appropriate GitHub group we can give it a go.

I have enjoyed the discussion and do not mind trying our three month experiment with something else, I only recommended gitter because:

  • I kind of hoped it was more open the slack (looks like I was wrong about that?)
  • I had some knowledge on how to set it up, and the desktop/web/phone apps are “good”

I also figured it would be a good experiment for the board - to see if it really the disconnect form of communication that is a trouble, or the difficulty of scheduling a skype or hangout.

···

On 1 September 2016 at 08:29, Eli Adam <eadam@co.lincoln.or.us> wrote:

While I agree with much of what is being said here and I prefer the
open nature of IRC complete with logs,
http://irclogs.geoapt.com/osgeo/, that isn’t what Jody asked or
necessarily the role of SAC. Looking at the Board notes,
http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2016-8-24#revision_of_tools_facilitating_board_meetings,
this is a three month experiment.

If the Board wants to try what some of us might think are stupid
things, that is their option.

Returning to Jody’s original message:

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett@gmail.com> wrote:

Last week the board decided to try some new technologies that members have
used on other projects.

To that end I would like ask how we should set up gitter on the SAC mailing
list before opening up a ticket or doing the work myself.

He asks for information and also offers to do the work.

OSGeo does have a hit repo here (https://github.com/osgeo).

I know for the geoserver project (as a repo admin) we were able to set up a
private channel for use in code-sprints
(https://gitter.im/orgs/geoserver/rooms). It looks like we may be able to
allow people to sign in with github or twitter.

Could I ask to be added as and admin to https://github.com/OSGeo for
experimentation?

And he makes a specific permissions request.

Maybe Mateusz’s answer of the existing rooms already addresses this in part:

"There is OSGeo rooms, as well as OSGeo/tilecache room already created:

https://gitter.im/orgs/OSGeo/rooms"

Best regards, Eli

–
Jody Garnett

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 6:34 AM, Björn Harrtell <bjorn.harrtell@gmail.com> wrote:

2016-09-01 13:59 GMT+02:00 Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io>:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:51:50PM +0200, Björn Harrtell wrote:

While I also feel that the open core can be hard to swallow I noted that
if
Mattermost is used with GitLab CE it will work with the LDAP
integration:

https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-mattermost

Interesting. It looks like Drone, which basically delegates
authentication to the “git hoster” (I did setup one for the OSGeo Gogs).

Are you up to add gitlab-mattermost to the experimental GitLab
service ? Ideally with an IRC bridge to existing IRC channels ?

Yes, it is something I’m interested to know more about so I will take a shot
at it when time permits.

I hope to be still able in the future to talk with you all via IRC.

Agreed. I also agree with what Jürgen wrote about the downside of
fragmentation and while that also might be inevitable if there is to be
freedom, it would be good if a single channel is encouraged from the
organisation.

The “bridge” would maybe just add a layer on top of existing IRC
channels (but I hadn’t tried it).

–strk;

Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac

Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac

–
Jody Garnett

20

I am game to give this a go, the board only wanted to try something like slack or gitter … so if you feel this is appropriate/suitable we can run with it.

···

On 1 September 2016 at 21:59, Björn Harrtell <bjorn.harrtell@gmail.com> wrote:

Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac

–
Jody Garnett

2016-09-01 22:39 GMT+02:00 Sandro Santilli <strk@kbt.io>:

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 09:59:53PM +0200, Björn Harrtell wrote:

I’ve investigated the requirements to enable Mattermost on the GitLab
installation. It seems it requires a separate virtual host and expects to
be accessible at the root path on that host.

I can point a osgeo.kbt.io subdomain to that IP if it helps testing further.
(the domain is already used for an experimental drone instance).
Note that a top domain would require a proper ssl cert (letsencrypt
is great at this with apache, but not so great with nginx).

Great, lets do that. I’ve already ran the initial setup so if it works out Mattermost should be available at https://osgeo.kbt.io when pointed.

–strk;