I've tried installing Vagrant and Virtualbox on OSGeo6, via
apt-get, but the install cannot complete w/out also installing
a kernel module:
virtualbox-dkms - x86 virtualization solution - kernel module sources for dkms
Do you know if it's safe to install that, and how to recover
from a disaster (unbootable machine) ?
--strk;
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 07:46:18PM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:
I've tried installing Vagrant and Virtualbox on OSGeo6, via
apt-get, but the install cannot complete w/out also installing
a kernel module:virtualbox-dkms - x86 virtualization solution - kernel module sources for dkms
Do you know if it's safe to install that, and how to recover
from a disaster (unbootable machine) ?
I found help in #osuosl for a physical presence, but found that
the problem is that kernel headers are missing on osgeo6, and the
installed kernel does not have corresponding headers.
Installed kernel is 4.7.0, but packages exist only for 3.16.0 and
4.9.0, so I guess 4.7.0 was installed "manually", do you know about
that ? Should I attempt a kernel upgrade ?
--strk;
On 09/26/2017 02:26 PM, Sandro Santilli wrote:
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 07:46:18PM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:
I've tried installing Vagrant and Virtualbox on OSGeo6, via
apt-get, but the install cannot complete w/out also installing
a kernel module:virtualbox-dkms - x86 virtualization solution - kernel module sources for dkms
Do you know if it's safe to install that, and how to recover
from a disaster (unbootable machine) ?I found help in #osuosl for a physical presence, but found that
the problem is that kernel headers are missing on osgeo6, and the
installed kernel does not have corresponding headers.Installed kernel is 4.7.0, but packages exist only for 3.16.0 and
4.9.0, so I guess 4.7.0 was installed "manually", do you know about
that ? Should I attempt a kernel upgrade ?--strk;
Martin is the only person I can think of that would have done that. I
would ask him. A kernel update would seem reasonable.
I see an email on 10/20/2016 about a kernel update. No idea if this is
the kernel in question.
Thanks,
Alex
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 11:26:23PM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:
Installed kernel is 4.7.0, but packages exist only for 3.16.0 and
4.9.0, so I guess 4.7.0 was installed "manually", do you know about
that ? Should I attempt a kernel upgrade ?
I'm pretty certain that 4.7 came from Debian backports. They now ship 4.9
and to me that one sounds like a good candidate. In general such upgrade
should be pretty safe. If it fails to reboot, we need somone on site to
connect a remote console.
Cheers,
Martin.
--
Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Sep 26, 2017 8:57 PM, “Sandro Santilli” <strk@kbt.io> wrote:
I’ve tried installing Vagrant and Virtualbox on OSGeo6,
…
What is the risk that we overload osgeo6?
Honestly, I see it a bit critical to make such experiments on our production machine which delivers a lot of important services.
Just my 0.02 cents,
Markus
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 08:26:21AM +0200, Martin Spott wrote:
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 11:26:23PM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:
> Installed kernel is 4.7.0, but packages exist only for 3.16.0 and
> 4.9.0, so I guess 4.7.0 was installed "manually", do you know about
> that ? Should I attempt a kernel upgrade ?I'm pretty certain that 4.7 came from Debian backports. They now ship 4.9
and to me that one sounds like a good candidate. In general such upgrade
should be pretty safe. If it fails to reboot, we need somone on site to
connect a remote console.
Yeah, that's why I asked who has access.
Who, in SAC, is nearby Oregon State University ?
Christian: is the current wiki capable of showing "all SAC members on the map" ?
--strk;
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 09:32:17AM +0200, Markus Neteler wrote:
On Sep 26, 2017 8:57 PM, "Sandro Santilli" <strk@kbt.io> wrote:
>
> I've tried installing Vagrant and Virtualbox on OSGeo6,
..What is the risk that we overload osgeo6?
Honestly, I see it a bit critical to make such experiments on our
production machine which delivers a lot of important services.
I actually agree on this, so I'm still interested in knowing
the cost of getting a new machine. The same applies IMHO to
creating new VMs (for example for the long-time requested
one to host GitLab). Saying "we'd create a VM on osgeo6"
sounds dangerous to me, when "osgeo6" is hosting (outside
of any virtualization) the mail server and mailing lists...
--strk;
Markus Neteler wrote:
Honestly, I see it a bit critical to make such experiments on our
production machine which delivers a lot of important services.
Apparently I missed the initial question, thus please excuse me probably
re-iterating the cause of a former discussion:
What's the reason to install VirtualBox on Osgeo6 ? From all available
methods to isolate a guest OS from its host, I'd consider VirtualBox to be
the most invasive.
If there's a thread, please give me a link.
Cheers,
Martin.
--
Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Martin,
On Wed, 27. Sep 2017 at 08:44:28 +0000, Martin Spott wrote:
What's the reason to install VirtualBox on Osgeo6?
I guess just the need for a VM for the new website and virtualbox being strk's
favorite (and that probably only because he used vagrant for testing).
My favorite would be libvirt/kvm (and the kernel modules for that are -
unsupprisingly - already in place).
Jürgen
--
Jürgen E. Fischer norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13 Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer D-26506 Norden http://www.norbit.de
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:06:12AM +0200, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
On Wed, 27. Sep 2017 at 08:44:28 +0000, Martin Spott wrote:
> What's the reason to install VirtualBox on Osgeo6?I guess just the need for a VM for the new website and virtualbox being strk's
favorite (and that probably only because he used vagrant for testing).My favorite would be libvirt/kvm (and the kernel modules for that are -
unsupprisingly - already in place).
I confirm, Vagrant is just the hammer in my hands.
Do you think libvirt/kvm would be safe to use on OSGeo6 ?
Are there other VMs on that machine ?
Any wiki page describing use of libvirt/kvm in OSGeo infra ?
--strk;
Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
I guess just the need for a VM for the new website and virtualbox being strk's
favorite (and that probably only because he used vagrant for testing).My favorite would be libvirt/kvm (and the kernel modules for that are -
unsupprisingly - already in place).
I definitely would like to leave the "my favourite virtualization technique
is cooler than yours" debate to others, but please let me put a general
question:
Does the new website really require full virtualizazion ? Don't techniques
which rely on Linux Control Groups provide sufficient separation ?
Cheers,
Martin.
--
Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Martin,
On Wed, 27. Sep 2017 at 09:42:06 +0000, Martin Spott wrote:
Does the new website really require full virtualizazion ? Don't techniques
which rely on Linux Control Groups provide sufficient separation ?
Sure. There probably isn't any virtualization required. But then we'd need to
setup wordpress. I thought that was something the contractor offered take over
and provide an image? But I didn't follow the discussion closely. I think
Jeff also offered to setup and maintain the wordpress install.
Jürgen
--
Jürgen E. Fischer norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13 Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer D-26506 Norden http://www.norbit.de
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 02:44:36PM +0200, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
Hi Martin,
On Wed, 27. Sep 2017 at 09:42:06 +0000, Martin Spott wrote:
> Does the new website really require full virtualizazion ? Don't techniques
> which rely on Linux Control Groups provide sufficient separation ?Sure. There probably isn't any virtualization required. But then we'd need to
setup wordpress. I thought that was something the contractor offered take over
and provide an image? But I didn't follow the discussion closely. I think
Jeff also offered to setup and maintain the wordpress install.
Contractor offered setup of a machine, install of wordpress on it
and a maintainance contract.
Jeff mentioned he'd send a proposal for the wordpress install but
hadn't sent one yet.
--strk;
On 09/27/2017 05:44 AM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
Hi Martin,
On Wed, 27. Sep 2017 at 09:42:06 +0000, Martin Spott wrote:
Does the new website really require full virtualizazion ? Don't techniques
which rely on Linux Control Groups provide sufficient separation ?Sure. There probably isn't any virtualization required. But then we'd need to
setup wordpress. I thought that was something the contractor offered take over
and provide an image? But I didn't follow the discussion closely. I think
Jeff also offered to setup and maintain the wordpress install.
The php on OSGeo6 is incompatible. We need to move to some sort of
containerization or virtualization to avoid hitting issues where an
upgrade can't happen because it will break something else.
I suppose if someone wants to tackle upgrading php5 to php7 and
debugging all php apps on osgeo6 that would suffice.
Then we still run into the issue that 2 instances of wordpress were
requested. Production and Testing/Beta. That requires either a
multi-site wordpress install (more complicated to manage), or separate
containers for each instance.
So yes there is an advantage to not putting everything in the main OS,
the downside is picking something that doesn't result in a lot of work
to keep patched.
Thanks,
Alex
On 09/27/2017 12:38 AM, Sandro Santilli wrote:
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 08:26:21AM +0200, Martin Spott wrote:
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 11:26:23PM +0200, Sandro Santilli wrote:
Installed kernel is 4.7.0, but packages exist only for 3.16.0 and
4.9.0, so I guess 4.7.0 was installed "manually", do you know about
that ? Should I attempt a kernel upgrade ?I'm pretty certain that 4.7 came from Debian backports. They now ship 4.9
and to me that one sounds like a good candidate. In general such upgrade
should be pretty safe. If it fails to reboot, we need somone on site to
connect a remote console.Yeah, that's why I asked who has access.
Who, in SAC, is nearby Oregon State University ?
Christian: is the current wiki capable of showing "all SAC members on the map" ?--strk;
_______________________________________________
Sac mailing list
Sac@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/sac
No one in SAC is local. OSUOSL team is the local help for something like
a stuck kernel. So if you think it might be an issue coordinate a reboot
time with them to make sure it comes back up.
Thanks,
Alex
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 09:32:17AM +0200, Markus Neteler wrote:
On Sep 26, 2017 8:57 PM, "Sandro Santilli" <strk@kbt.io> wrote:
>
> I've tried installing Vagrant and Virtualbox on OSGeo6,
..What is the risk that we overload osgeo6?
Honestly, I see it a bit critical to make such experiments on our
production machine which delivers a lot of important services.
I actually agree on this, so I'm still interested in knowing the cost of getting a new machine. The same applies IMHO to creating new VMs (for example for the long-time requested one to host GitLab). Saying "we'd create a
VM on osgeo6"
sounds dangerous to me, when "osgeo6" is hosting (outside of any virtualization) the mail server and mailing lists...
--strk;
On that thought, would it be possible to set aside money for some cloud hosted servers.
They are much easier to create, fuss with and experiment with and delete when you are done with them. Since many of those have 24/7 support, we don't have to schedule around someone's schedule if we want to do something dangerous.
When we are done experimenting figuring out what exactly is needed how much load etc, then we put it on one of our osgeo servers or not.
Like for example I'd like to mess with gitea, port our stuff from gogs, see how it goes, see what I need to do to improve speed. I really don't want to worry about messing up existing infrastructure.
Thanks,
Regina
On 09/27/2017 01:39 PM, Regina Obe wrote:
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 09:32:17AM +0200, Markus Neteler wrote:
On Sep 26, 2017 8:57 PM, "Sandro Santilli" <strk@kbt.io> wrote:
I've tried installing Vagrant and Virtualbox on OSGeo6,
..
What is the risk that we overload osgeo6?
Honestly, I see it a bit critical to make such experiments on our
production machine which delivers a lot of important services.I actually agree on this, so I'm still interested in knowing the cost of getting a new machine. The same applies IMHO to creating new VMs (for example for the long-time requested one to host GitLab). Saying "we'd create a
VM on osgeo6"
sounds dangerous to me, when "osgeo6" is hosting (outside of any virtualization) the mail server and mailing lists...--strk;
On that thought, would it be possible to set aside money for some cloud hosted servers.
They are much easier to create, fuss with and experiment with and delete when you are done with them. Since many of those have 24/7 support, we don't have to schedule around someone's schedule if we want to do something dangerous.
When we are done experimenting figuring out what exactly is needed how much load etc, then we put it on one of our osgeo servers or not.Like for example I'd like to mess with gitea, port our stuff from gogs, see how it goes, see what I need to do to improve speed. I really don't want to worry about messing up existing infrastructure.
Thanks,
Regina
Yes, we have budget. Just need to set limits, decide on which services
and initiate an account we can provision on. So basically mostly
logistics. Put it on the meeting agenda.
Thanks,
Alex
Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
Sure. There probably isn't any virtualization required. But then we'd need to
setup wordpress. I thought that was something the contractor offered take over
and provide an image?
Personally I won't take responsibility for maintaining a Wordpress setup,
but we might consider setting up a minimal Docker container and let some
contractor mess around inside of that at his own discretion (and hope he's
not going to use MySQL .... 
Cheers,
Martin.
--
Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 09/28/2017 02:17 PM, Martin Spott wrote:
Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
Sure. There probably isn't any virtualization required. But then we'd need to
setup wordpress. I thought that was something the contractor offered take over
and provide an image?Personally I won't take responsibility for maintaining a Wordpress setup,
but we might consider setting up a minimal Docker container and let some
contractor mess around inside of that at his own discretion (and hope he's
not going to use MySQL ....Cheers,
Martin.
Wordpress is really only supported on Mysql, well the alternative is
MariaDB.
The thing about Docker, is you don't let anyone into a Docker, Docker's
are immutable from a configuration viewpoint. The way you fix a Docker
is update the script to deploy it and redeploy.
That said you also separate out, the DB would run on the host or in it's
own Docker, and you would use Docker compose to link the 2 together.
Thanks,
Alex
Disclaimer: I don't want to urge anybody to use Docker in this setup, I know
about the downsides of using Docker, my intention is solely to clarify.
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 02:21:07PM -0700, Alex M wrote:
The thing about Docker, is you don't let anyone into a Docker, Docker's
are immutable from a configuration viewpoint. The way you fix a Docker
is update the script to deploy it and redeploy.
This is one style of using Docker, maybe the most popular one, but "there's
more than one way to do it" (like in Perl). Setting up a base system,
SSH'ing into it like you would into a VM and arranging things inside is not
that uncommon.
Cheers,
Martin.
--
Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------